M3 vs cayman S

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by graider

I don't agree with you on what he should say or shouldn't say. atleast the man is honest and brave enough to express his feeling. I'm not sure why some of you jumped on him after he merely state the fact. the fact of the matter is almost all purchase decision based on look and how you feel inside the car first. If this is not true, then we all can drive some thing with similar performance for a lot less and save the extra money for investment. We like the cayman, 911, m3, etc not because we can't find similar performance for less, but because we like the look, the build quality, the prestige, how people think of you when you in it, the badge, etc.... I have to say anyone who say otherwise is totally lying.

I'm not saying handling/performance is not important, but they are just a tiny aspect of any car purchase decision.

Yea I think this is generally a fair statement.

[footie]

Originally Posted by graider

I don't agree with you on what he should say or shouldn't say. atleast the man is honest and brave enough to express his feeling. I'm not sure why some of you jumped on him after he merely state the fact. the fact of the matter is almost all purchase decision based on look and how you feel inside the car first. If this is not true, then we all can drive some thing with similar performance for a lot less and save the extra money for investment. We like the cayman, 911, m3, etc not because we can't find similar performance for less, but because we like the look, the build quality, the prestige, how people think of you when you in it, the badge, etc.... I have to say anyone who say otherwise is totally lying.

I'm not saying handling/performance is not important, but they are just a tiny aspect of any car purchase decision.

Handling/performance may be a tiny aspect of purchasing a luxury or family car but in a sportscar it's a major element of the decision making process. Now I am not saying that looks isn't important as is the heritage, it badge and the image that surrounds it but I definitely would never chose a car based on what other people think of me, to me such a thing is shallow.

For heaven sake I'm only 42 and now driving a Jag which to many is an old man's car, so it's plain I am not swayed by public opinion. May be I'm the exception to the rule but I somehow doubt that.

[graider]

Originally Posted by footie

Handling/performance may be a tiny aspect of purchasing a luxury or family car but in a sportscar it's a major element of the decision making process. Now I am not saying that looks isn't important as is the heritage, it badge and the image that surrounds it but I definitely would never chose a car based on what other people think of me, to me such a thing is shallow.

For heaven sake I'm only 42 and now driving a Jag which to many is an old man's car, so it's plain I am not swayed by public opinion. May be I'm the exception to the rule but I somehow doubt that.

yeah, I'm afraid you are the only one that think that way,

there are cars that I'm afraid to be seen in regardless of how they handle. Prius, audi tt (even the rs), beetle, mini, etc. It is the same as there are certain things that I would refuse to wear such as pink underwear or tight shirt. lol

they cayman is not exactly in that catergory because it does look good, but it is dangerously close to it.

the funny thing is there are lot of similar cars that i would be more than happy to be in such as the echo hatchback, fit, your jaguar, etc.

[stickypaws]

This thread sucks. Again.

"My friend owns a xxxx, therefore xxxx is 'better.' xxxx can't win on the track because of xxxx. I know people who have a xxxx. I test drove a xxxx. Therefore xxxx sucks as an option." Etc., etc.

I feel like I'm in 4th grade.

Why is it that on some car forums people can actually discuss cars and motorsports, but here on M3Post it quickly becomes this "I know and you don't know" dribble? And defending of brand names.

It seems like rarely does anyone have any real (not made up) first hand knowledge to contribute and it's reduced to secondary information and hearsay.

And what's with the race track nonsense? You'll find winners in all brands in all kinds of venues. What a brand does in F1, ALMS (P2, P1, GT1/2, etc.), GA, DTM, or whatever classification and venue has little bearing on you and me and buying a M3 versus a xxxx.

Anyway, racing success has more to do with management, money, corporate politics, with talent and lots of good luck tossed into the mix. And not specifically on a brand. Of course, it's also a good way to sell cars to boy racers and the mfgs know that very well.

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by stickypaws

This thread sucks. Again.

"My friend owns a xxxx, therefore xxxx is 'better.' xxxx can't win on the track because of xxxx. I know people who have a xxxx. I test drove a xxxx. Therefore xxxx sucks as an option." Etc., etc.

I feel like I'm in 4th grade.

Why is it that on some car forums people can actually discuss cars and motorsports, but here on M3Post it quickly becomes this "I know and you don't know" dribble? And defending of brand names.

It seems like rarely does anyone have any real (not made up) first hand knowledge to contribute and it's reduced to secondary information and hearsay.

And what's with the race track nonsense? You'll find winners in all brands in all kinds of venues. What a brand does in F1, ALMS (P2, P1, GT1/2, etc.), GA, DTM, or whatever classification and venue has little bearing on you and me and buying a M3 versus a xxxx.

Anyway, racing success has more to do with management, money, corporate politics, with talent and lots of good luck tossed into the mix. And not specifically on a brand. Of course, it's also a good way to sell cars to boy racers and the mfgs know that very well.

What I said r.e. posts like "GT3 only" or "M3 all the way". Nonsense without any background into why. And it's obviously because those who post like that, have 0 experience with said car... Also agree r.e. racing. I find myself repeating the same things in similar threads..

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by stickypaws

This thread sucks. Again.

"My friend owns a xxxx, therefore xxxx is 'better.' xxxx can't win on the track because of xxxx. I know people who have a xxxx. I test drove a xxxx. Therefore xxxx sucks as an option." Etc., etc.

I feel like I'm in 4th grade.

Why is it that on some car forums people can actually discuss cars and motorsports, but here on M3Post it quickly becomes this "I know and you don't know" dribble? And defending of brand names.

It seems like rarely does anyone have any real (not made up) first hand knowledge to contribute and it's reduced to secondary information and hearsay.

And what's with the race track nonsense? You'll find winners in all brands in all kinds of venues. What a brand does in F1, ALMS (P2, P1, GT1/2, etc.), GA, DTM, or whatever classification and venue has little bearing on you and me and buying a M3 versus a xxxx.

Anyway, racing success has more to do with management, money, corporate politics, with talent and lots of good luck tossed into the mix. And not specifically on a brand. Of course, it's also a good way to sell cars to boy racers and the mfgs know that very well.

[graider]

Originally Posted by urbo73

What I said r.e. posts like "GT3 only" or "M3 all the way". Nonsense without any background into why. And it's obviously because those who post like that, have 0 experience with said car... Also agree r.e. racing. I find myself repeating the same things in similar threads..

i tell you why already in all my posts in this thread, what's so hard to see? gt3 only because it is a logical step up from the m3. cayman s or boxter s are the same level or a step down to me.

bear in mind those who defended the cayman s were the one that started the porsche spanked m3 this and that on the race track. porsche won all the race because everything they touched was god, etc. and that they thought the OP should go for the cayman because of the track advantage it has on the m3. I was just follow up with them on that front.

it is ridiculous that you think whoever own an m3 and only want to upgrade to the gt3 has zero experience about car. what make you think so? do they really have to love the cayman like you to be considered knowledge about car?

I don't care what car you like. but don't act like you can dictate what car people should like or not or what they can or cannot say. i'm amazed how whenever someone say they only want the gt3, not the cayman. then they automatically get bashed for not knowing anything about car. how uncool is that?

[totoro]

Randy's video from the MotorTrend article:

[footie]

Randy's comments mimic my own experiences with the Cayman, it's the next best thing to a GT3, something you couldn't say about too many cars and that includes the M3, great as it is.

I think some people keep forgetting that an M3 is only a humble coupe/saloon model which M-Division have sprinkled some magic over. What it is capable of is extremely good given it's plain beginnings but it's not as good as sportscar as the Cayman S is, it's just quicker, that's all.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by footie

Randy's comments mimic my own experiences with the Cayman, it's the next best thing to a GT3, something you couldn't say about too many cars and that includes the M3, great as it is.

I think some people keep forgetting that an M3 is only a humble coupe/saloon model which M-Division have sprinkled some magic over. What it is capable of is extremely good given it's plain beginnings but it's not as good as sportscar as the Cayman S is, it's just quicker, that's all.

+1 in so as far as the Cayman goes. Not so much to the effect that the M3 is humble though to each his own.

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by graider

i tell you why already in all my posts in this thread, what's so hard to see? gt3 only because it is a logical step up from the m3. cayman s or boxter s are the same level or a step down to me.

bear in mind those who defended the cayman s were the one that started the porsche spanked m3 this and that on the race track. porsche won all the race because everything they touched was god, etc. and that they thought the OP should go for the cayman because of the track advantage it has on the m3. I was just follow up with them on that front.

it is ridiculous that you think whoever own an m3 and only want to upgrade to the gt3 has zero experience about car. what make you think so? do they really have to love the cayman like you to be considered knowledge about car?

I don't care what car you like. but don't act like you can dictate what car people should like or not or what they can or cannot say. i'm amazed how whenever someone say they only want the gt3, not the cayman. then they automatically get bashed for not knowing anything about car. how uncool is that?

I'm not even talking about your posts. I'm talking about the ones I've already replied to. The thread is all here for all to read. You are very defensive, and I'm not looking to argue with anyone. You called me out before (why do I have the M3, etc.) without even reading the thread. Once I pointed you to my post (#44) you quieted down. I suggest that now. I have owned both cars in question. As well as others in this discussion. I never said anything bad about any car or what choices one makes if they are at least discussed in a manner that makes some sense. I just said that I see too many childish/shallow posts that don't say much other than this car is better than this car. Silly stuff. You jumped in to defend I'm not sure what. Chill out..

[graider]

Originally Posted by urbo73

I'm not even talking about your posts. I'm talking about the ones I've already replied to. The thread is all here for all to read. You are very defensive, and I'm not looking to argue with anyone. You called me out before (why do I have the M3, etc.) without even reading the thread. Once I pointed you to my post (#44) you quieted down. I suggest that now. I have owned both cars in question. As well as others in this discussion. I never said anything bad about any car or what choices one makes if they are at least discussed in a manner that makes some sense. I just said that I see too many childish/shallow posts that don't say much other than this car is better than this car. Silly stuff. You jumped in to defend I'm not sure what. Chill out..

i think you minunderstand as i'm not trying to defend the m3 or anger at anything. I just don't like it when you and some other started the bashing.

your comment in this post is a good example. how is that someone say they like the gt3, not the cayman suddenly make them childish? doesn't make any sense at all. Like seriously do they really need to own one or to know everything inside out about it to void comment without being bashed?

but anyway, i agree let's peace out.

[footie]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

+1 in so as far as the Cayman goes. Not so much to the effect that the M3 is humble though to each his own.

Well the M3 does have humble beginnings, it's based on the same layout that brings us the 316.

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by graider

i think you minunderstand as i'm not trying to defend the m3 or anger at anything. I just don't like it when you and some other started the bashing.

your comment in this post is a good example. how is that someone say they like the gt3, not the cayman suddenly make them childish? doesn't make any sense at all. Like seriously do they really need to own one or to know everything inside out about it to void comment without being bashed?

but anyway, i agree let's peace out.

I don't see any post where I "bashed" anyone. Where did I call anyone childish for not liking the Cayman? You're right, it doesn't make any sense, because it never happened. Please don't put words into my mouth.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by footie

Well the M3 does have humble beginnings, it's based on the same layout that brings us the 316.

What I mean is that the original vehicle may very well be from "humble" origins, but soooooo many things are sooooo very different in the M3 that it is hardly humble as far as I am concerned. If it is humble to you, that is also quite fine. It just isn´t that way to me. A lot of thought went behind sooo many components in this car. Or maybe it is that I just feel like a "contrarian" today. Crap, I don´t know!! Hahaha!

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by footie

Randy's comments mimic my own experiences with the Cayman, it's the next best thing to a GT3, something you couldn't say about too many cars and that includes the M3, great as it is.

I may be in the minority, but I'd take a C2S over the Cayman S. I've had and driven both. Just preference. C2S drives like a GT3 in terms of dynamics, so if you like the GT3 and how it handles, I don't see why you wouldn't a C2S.

I find it funny many times (not here but in other forums, articles) that the very people that praise Porsche for "getting the engine placement right" in the Cayman and "wrong" in the 911, go on and love the GT3! How can one love the GT3 if the engine is in the "wrong place"? See what I mean? Yes, the GT3 is geared differently, has more downforce, more HP, etc., but really in the end it's a more powerful C2S. Same basic characteristics. If someone didn't like a C2S, then I can't imagine why they'd like a GT3. The Cayman is also a wonderful car, but very different and hard to compare to me. And the M3 is also a wonderful car, but again, different in handling characteristics. Pick your flavor based on what handling you like. Make sense?

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by urbo73

I may be in the minority, but I'd take a C2S over the Cayman S. I've had and driven both. Just preference. C2S drives like a GT3 in terms of dynamics, so if you like the GT3 and how it handles, I don't see why you wouldn't a C2S.

I find it funny many times (not here but in other forums, articles) that the very people that praise Porsche for "getting the engine placement right" in the Cayman and "wrong" in the 911, go on and love the GT3! How can one love the GT3 if the engine is in the "wrong place"? See what I mean? Yes, the GT3 is geared differently, has more downforce, more HP, etc., but really in the end it's a more powerful C2S. Same basic characteristics. The Cayman is also a wonderful car, but very different and hard to compare to me. And the M3 is also a wonderful car, but again, different in handling characteristics. Pick your flavor.

Yeeeeesssssssssssssss!!!! I´d take any 911 over the Cayman despite the fact the Cayman is a better chassis. I just love the 911 shape and feel!!

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by BMW-M-Mexico

Yeeeeesssssssssssssss!!!! I´d take any 911 over the Cayman despite the fact the Cayman is a better chassis. I just love the 911 shape and feel!!

Also if I was in a Cayman and a 911 pulled up to me, I don't know what I'd do with the amount of self-embarrassment and failure I'd put on myself for letting him make me think I'm somehow not worthy of a real Porsche

[graider]

Originally Posted by urbo73

Also if I was in a Cayman and a 911 pulled up to me, I don't know what I'd do with the amount of self-embarrassment and failure I'd put on myself for letting him make me think I'm somehow not worthy of a real Porsche

sadly, that is exactly what most other 911 owners have in their mind.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by urbo73

Also if I was in a Cayman and a 911 pulled up to me, I don't know what I'd do with the amount of self-embarrassment and failure I'd put on myself for letting him make me think I'm somehow not worthy of a real Porsche

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!

[urbo73]

Originally Posted by graider

sadly, that is exactly what most other 911 owners have in their mind.

Maybe, but who cares right? Also, is this what most M3 owners have in their mind when they pull up to a "lesser" BMW model?

[stickypaws]

Originally Posted by graider

sadly, that is exactly what most other 911 owners have in their mind.

"Most?" I doubt it.

Sure, there are plenty of cable TV producers in their Carmona Red over Beige Tiptronic Cabs out there who think they've reached automobile nirvana. And that's what I assume you are really meaning to say.

But there are a lot more enthusiast owners out there, too (serious about the car/history, and PCA members, etc..) You're succumbing to stereotyping. And that's part of the problem with these kinds of threads.

Originally Posted by urbo73

Maybe, but who cares right? Also, is this what most M3 owners have in their mind when they pull up to a "lesser" BMW model?

WTF does anybody care what somebody else thinks? I don't buy cars for anybody else but me. I hope you all do the same. If I want a Volvo station wagon, then so be it. I presume we all have more value than simply the car we own. And that we aren't scared of stupid stereotypes.

A GT3 or nothing. A M3 or nothing. A R8 or nothing. It's like a broken record. What? Everybody's going to spend their life trying to out do each other? Even with some stranger at a stoplight? On a car forum?

Let's try to be honest about ourselves and do what suits us as individuals instead of playing the show-off game. There are financial issues and practicality and rational behavior that need to be considered as part of car ownership, too. And there are some fantastic cars out there that don't make a lot of sense to own in the real world.