New 10w60 default oil from BMW. No more Castrol

[FogCityM3]

The oils seem extremely similar and would be comfortable running either one. The Redline 10w-60 used to be a bit thicker in the past and now looks pretty much in line with the others as the specs changed modestly ( I ran it a while back for about 7000 miles). If doing only track driving the Redline may be the best choice. If anything, the Shell specs indicate that 10w-60 is the right oil for this engine as BMW chose something extremely similar to the Castrol. I also think running Mobil 1 is fine for cooler climates, as even the Castrol (and probably Shell) break down to a 10w-50 over a few thousand miles. I'd be a little reluctant to use it on the track or with a raised (8600 rpm) limiter.

[SenorFunkyPants]

Originally Posted by BzsBimmer

I highly doubt it's that simple.
Look maybe you have some additional insight that I don't however what I can speak to is that I've been working for Tier 1 suppliers for some of the largest OEM's in the truck and car markets for many years.
Each one of them have specifications for us to meet as well as continuous involvement in many facets of the quality and product manufacturing.
I stand by my position that BMW had involvement with Shell to help specify either additive requirements or specification boundaries.

Castrol certainly did modify the formulation of the original TWS 10W60 a few years ago and renamed it Edge professional - with BMW being Castrols only bulk customer for this oil it seems entirely logical that the formulation change was of some benefit to BMW S65/85 engines (else why bother?).
If BMW decided that a mid-production spec change for Castrol's 10W60 was beneficial then its not out of the question that BMW would ask Shell to adjust the additive pack of its 10W60 to something similar to Castrols.

Originally Posted by aussiem3

It will be interesting see if Castrol (Edge) TWS 10w-60 will now be available on the open market at a reasonable price. If the price is right why not continue to use it. Makes $$$ sense

I understand from Castrol that they have contractual obligations to continue to manufacture their 10W60 oil for certain legacy engines (besides BMW) but losing the BMW in-service contract will mean the production volume required will be a mere fraction of previous production. So I would guess that the retail price is unlikely to go down, it may even go up, at least in the long term.
No engine manufacturer wants to use such a heavy oil (unless they really have to) the power and efficiency losses are considerable, the trend will be for increasingly thinner oils (down to 0w20) in smaller turbo charged engines. I suspect Castrol would rather stop the manufacture of 10W60 altogether (its low volume and expensive to produce) but are stuck with it at least for a while longer

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by kaede

why is that? Complete noob, please explain a tiny bit please? Thanks!!!

I guess they just don't mix well together. Think oil and water. It was explained better than that somewhere, but I forgot exactly where. Maybe someone else with experience can chime in.

[G80indy]

The different brand formula additives can react with each other and form types of sludge prematurely....
This came from Mike Miller in a correspondence some time ago.

[saxonb]

More info form Turner

BMW M Twinpower Synthetic Oil - 10w-60 - E46 M3 E39 M5 E60 M5 E9X M3


click for larger

click for larger
Part #: 83212365944 (83-21-2-365-944)



BMW recommends using this specific Shell 10W60 oil in the newer M cars, including 2001-2006 E46 M3 (S54 engine), 2005+ E60 M5 (S85 engine), E9X M3 (S65 engine) and some 2000-2003 E39 M5 and Z8 cars (for S62 engine, check your engine bay prior to ordering). This oil is also suitable for the ZF transmission in the C4 Corvette ZR-1 (takes 3 liters). Priced per liter.

In January 2015 BMW changed official oil suppliers from Castrol to Shell. The new oils are designed to meet requirements of both the newer engines as well as older BMW's. This oil replaces BMW Part #: 07510009420 / 07-51-0-009-420 BMW Castrol TWS Oil. While this oil is officially labeled "M TwinPower Turbo" oil it is designed for use on the naturally aspirated S54, S65, S65, and S85 engines.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-21...m5-e9x-m3.aspx

[saxonb]

So this is fresh virgin product from Shell's GTL plant it seems:

http://www.shell-me.com/shell-opens-...-in-jebel-ali/

Shell opens new Gas-To-Liquid base oil supply chain in Jebel

Facility located near Dubai represents Shell’s fourth and newest GTL base oil storage hub
Shell recently opened a Gas-To-Liquid(GTL) base oil hub in Jebel Ali in the United Arab Emirates (UAE):the first delivery of GTL base oil was made in late December 2014. Base oil is a key component in finished oils and GTL base oil specifically enables the development of premium oils for engines, as well as in speciality products, including process oils and transformer fluids.

This new facility in Jebel Ali is Shell’s fourth GTL base oil storage hub alongside its existing hubs located in Houston, Hamburg and Hong Kong. The new addition completes the full global reach and coverage of Shell’s supply of GTL base oil. The hub will cater to customers in the Middle East and to certain markets beyond such as India and Pakistan.

Dennis Cheong, Shell Vice President Supply Chain,stated “Shell Lubricants has a strong and dependable global supply chain producing high quality products and providing consistent delivery to our customers: these GTL base oil hubs are an integral part of this. Shell is the only company with a dependable supply of GTL base oil. This new hub accomplishes the full integration of our transportation and storage of GTL base oil globally. This is a clear demonstrationof where Shell’s integration and innovation add value for Shell’s customers.”

TheGTL base oil ismade in the Middle East at the Pearl GTL plant in Qatar, a partnership between Qatar Petroleum and Shell. The plant is the world’s largest source of GTL products. The hub will cater to customers in the Middle East and to certain markets beyond such as Egypt, India, Pakistan and South Africa.

Sheikh ThaniAl Thani, Deputy General Manager for Qatar Shell stated, “GTL products represent a pioneering innovation to increase the supply of highly-demanded liquid hydrocarbons. They offer significant advantages in many applications as they arevirtually sulphur free, colourless and odourless. These attributes of GTL-based products make them very attractive to help meet the growing requirements of consumers and we are extremely proud to be at the leading edge of innovation that produces these and future superior products.”

Speaking on the opening Mounir Bouaziz, Country Chairman Dubai and Northern Emirates, VP Commercial,stated “We are extremely proud to inaugurate this Shell Gas-to-Liquids base oil hub in the UAE. The decision to create a hub in the UAE demonstrates Shell’s ongoing commitment to the region, and illustrates the growing demand for premium lubricants. The hub will cater to customers across the Middle East and reinforces Shell’s vision to be the most innovative energy company by providing cutting edge products, including motor oils made from natural gas.”

Shell is the leading international oil company, providing worldwide access to this latest innovation in motor, transformer and process oils.This is underpinned by Shell’s robust and bespoke supply chain.Shell’smotor oils made from natural gas (Pennzoil Platinum and Shell Helix Ultra made with PurePlus Technology) are now available in over 95 markets around the world, including within the Middle East region.

• The hub is located on an industrial site in Jebel Ali about 30 Km from Dubai, so it is geographically centred in the region and close to markets with growing demand for finished lubricants.Success in the lubricants business is about being close to the markets and customers.

• The base oil is shipped from the different GTL base oil hubs to a Shell lubricant oil blending plant where it is blended with advanced additive technology to produce the final product. The Jebel Ali site is well connected with a jetty and road gantry to allow product to arrive from Qatar and be efficiently distributed to Shell’s network of lubricant blending plants in the region.

• Shell Helix Ultra with PurePlus Technology is a new industry-leading motor oil for passenger cars offering better protection against sludge , superior corrosion defence and, ultimately helping to ensure longer engine life. It is the first synthetic motor oil made from natural gas. Shell Helix Ultra with PurePlus Technology is available in most markets in the Middle East including the UAE, Oman, Kuwait, Qatar, Jordan. Lebanon, Bahrain and Egypt.

• Shell PurePlus Technology produces base oil from natural gas, instead of crude oil. Compared to traditional base oils, this base oil provides a superior molecular structure from which to create Shell Helix Ultra. This base oil helps to: extend engine life, reduce maintenance costs, reduce oil consumption, maintain fuel economy and enable better cleanliness. Fuel economy benefits vary with viscosity grade, but certain products within the Shell Helix Ultra with PurePlus Technology range can deliver an improvement of up to 3% in fuel economy .

• GTL base oil has also been game changing technology in certain specialist applications such as:
oProcess oils, which are used in a wide variety of chemical and technical industries as a raw material component or as an aid to processing. Shell Risella X, range of products, based on the GTL technology, are characterised by extra purity and excellent performance

o Shell Diala a transformer oil, which acts as electrical insulator, is made with GTL base oil thereby enabling it to offer exceptional performance with higher reliability even under high pressure.

[saxonb]

From bmw website

[SenorFunkyPants]

Looks like the current version of Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10W-60 is different to the old version.
From 10/2013
http://hand.net.pl/wp-content/upload..._B4_en_TDS.pdf
From 2011
http://parsianlub.com/admin/file_tec...g%2010W-60.pdf
From 2007
http://www.smithandallan.com/documen...-60%201%20.pdf

[G80indy]

I use the Platinum 0w20 in our Honda. Stays clean after a couple thousand miles. The Mobil 1 was darker and would have an odor after same mileage. So... Made the switch a while ago in the Honda.
I think this GTL stuff is impressive for more affordable synthetics on the shelf at WalMart

[s85e90]

Originally Posted by 330indy

I use the Platinum 0w20 in our Honda. Stays clean after a couple thousand miles. The Mobil 1 was darker and would have an odor after same mileage. So... Made the switch a while ago in the Honda.
I think this GTL stuff is impressive for more affordable synthetics on the shelf at WalMart

Just cause the oil changed color means nothing. It should be a little darker.

[saxonb]

This is the latest publicly available I can find:

Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10W-60 (SN/CF, A3/B4), v 3.2 20.05.2014.07.14:
http://www.epc.shell.com/docs/GPCDOC...8en%29_TDS.pdf

[BzsBimmer]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

Castrol certainly did modify the formulation of the original TWS 10W60 a few years ago and renamed it Edge professional - with BMW being Castrols only bulk customer for this oil it seems entirely logical that the formulation change was of some benefit to BMW S65/85 engines (else why bother?).
If BMW decided that a mid-production spec change for Castrol's 10W60 was beneficial then its not out of the question that BMW would ask Shell to adjust the additive pack of its 10W60 to something similar to Castrols.



I understand from Castrol that they have contractual obligations to continue to manufacture their 10W60 oil for certain legacy engines (besides BMW) but losing the BMW in-service contract will mean the production volume required will be a mere fraction of previous production. So I would guess that the retail price is unlikely to go down, it may even go up, at least in the long term.
No engine manufacturer wants to use such a heavy oil (unless they really have to) the power and efficiency losses are considerable, the trend will be for increasingly thinner oils (down to 0w20) in smaller turbo charged engines. I suspect Castrol would rather stop the manufacture of 10W60 altogether (its low volume and expensive to produce) but are stuck with it at least for a while longer

Thanks for the validation

[SenorFunkyPants]

I don't know if the USA market is the same but in the UK there are two versions of Castrol's 10W60.....Edge 10W60 and Edge professional 10W60 (this version is only available direct from BMW). Both these oils have a similar spec, but according to Castrol UK the BMW "Edge professional" formulation is slightly "improved" over the retail Edge version..
Maybe Shell are doing something similar with their "M twinpower turbo" oil.

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by saxonb

More info form Turner



http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-21...m5-e9x-m3.aspx

wow this is incredibly confusing why the label is call "M twin power turbo" when it's clearly for NA M engines.

Anyone have luck finding this at dealers?

[elim11]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

wow this is incredibly confusing why the label is call "M twin power turbo" when it's clearly for NA M engines.

Anyone have luck finding this at dealers?

I just got a quart of this topped off at my local dealer (in Orange County, CA) since I was a qt low. The blue bottle def threw me off and I had to double check.

Mixed this with the existing Castrol 10W-60, shouldn't be a problem?

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by elim11

I just got a quart of this topped off at my local dealer (in Orange County, CA) since I was a qt low. The blue bottle def threw me off and I had to double check.

Mixed this with the existing Castrol 10W-60, shouldn't be a problem?

Engine blows up...haha, Likely okay I presume. It's their replacement OEM oil. I would assume that formulas were changed to add better friction additives or other improvements. But the specs posted earlier indicates its very similar to the outgoing oil. Castrol even made minor improvements when they relabeled TWS to Edge Pro two years ago.

I just found out that Castrol is being booted in favor of Shell/Valvoline oil for all other models as well. My X5's engine oil is also no longer Castrol.

[crypticc]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

Engine blows up...haha, Likely okay I presume. It's their replacement OEM oil. I would assume that formulas were changed to add better friction additives or other improvements. But the specs posted earlier indicates its very similar to the outgoing oil. Castrol even made minor improvements when they relabeled TWS to Edge Pro two years ago.

I just found out that Castrol is being booted in favor of Shell/Valvoline oil for all other models as well. My X5's engine oil is also no longer Castrol.

... Which suggests it's a commercial deal rather than any specific improvement

[Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by crypticc

... Which suggests it's a commercial deal rather than any specific improvement

everything is commercial...BMW are in the business of making money for shareholders.

[rjd598]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

wow this is incredibly confusing why the label is call "M twin power turbo" when it's clearly for NA M engines.

Anyone have luck finding this at dealers?

got it at my local dealer. it definitely threw me off even after i read the back of the bottle and it said it was for our cars

[xpunisherx]

Originally Posted by Petros

are you saying BMW and Shell will devote the time and money to develop the oil specifically for an engine that BMW doesn't even make anymore and doesn't profit from? That's just incomprehensible. Most likely they just grabbed whatever 10w60 oil Shell had that was as close to TWS as possible and just stuck a BMW label on the bottle that says "approved for M engines".

[Leonardo629]

yay, finally a different color for the 10W60 band-aid for our cars! I wuv blue~

[Ant Man]

Millers have an excellent reputation in the motorsport world. This is their oil for the S65: http://www.millersoils.co.uk/automot...tor=Motorsport

Millers CFS 10w60
SAE Viscosity 10w60
Specific Gravity (at 15°C) 0.865
Kinematic Viscosity (at 100°C, cSt) 22.7
Kinematic Viscosity (at 40°C, cSt) 159.6
Viscosity Index 171
Pour Point (°C) <-25
Flash Point (°C) >200
Cold Crank Viscosity (cP) 7,000
HTHS mPa.s 5.55
TBN mg KOH/gm 9.47