How would you rate stock tires?

[s4one]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

I had the opposite experience. Sport made things choppy without being any faster.

So were you on EDC comfort and MDM on?

When I was on EDC comfort, it felt like the car was sliding and the tires were "singing" pretty much every turn.

With EDC Sport, it feels like the car is on rails and I was able to go harder into turns. Should be like this right, harder/more aggressive suspension?

Thanks

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by s4one

I am a bit confused on the MDM part. When I tracked my car.. I didn't have anything on, just had the EDC to sport (both lights on).

So there is three settings right, listed below?

1. nothing on/off (this is what I was using, the lost of traction light was blinking on almost every turn!)
2. MDM on
3. traction control off

Thanks

Correct. You can have traction control on (default startup mode, no lights on the dash unless it's intervening), MDM, or traction control completely off. MDM is perfectly fine for beginners and possibly intermediates, and if you code Euro MDM I know advanced students who run with it on because they find that it never interferes unless they've really screwed up, at which point they're grateful for the help. But I would consider using MDM rather than fully on as soon as you're fairly comfortable on the track because otherwise you're going to burn through brakes faster from all the work DSC is doing.

Originally Posted by s4one

Damn, traction control off huh? I mentioned on a previous post that one of the mid day runs, I forgot to turn on the EDC sport mode and was on comfort (not lights) mode. What a night and day difference. On comfort mode, the car would slide everywhere but on EDC sport (2 lights on) I was able to control the car a lot better)

You should try Normal on the track. I never run Sport, though I might if I were on a track with no elevation changes. People who've used telemetry have found that Sport sometimes feels faster, but the clock says they're faster with Normal. I believe that observation pertained to non-ZCP EDC, which would make sense because BMW's own suspension engineers recommend using Normal on non-ZCP EDC if you're on a track with elevation changes, though ZCP might be different since Sport is adaptive in that case.

And your observation about the feel makes sense; the harder EDC modes allow less weight transfer and thus less body roll, which translates to a more planted feel -- but there's also such a thing as being too stiff for the track you're on. If the suspension is so rigid it can't adapt to changes in the road surface quickly enough, you can end up with the tires losing contact with the road, which isn't good for putting power down or controlling the car.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by s4one

I am a bit confused on the MDM part. When I tracked my car.. I didn't have anything on, just had the EDC to sport (both lights on).

So there is three settings right, listed below?

1. nothing on/off (this is what I was using, the lost of traction light was blinking on almost every turn!)
2. MDM on
3. traction control off

Thanks

Originally Posted by jphughan

Correct. You can have traction control on (default startup mode, no lights on the dash unless it's intervening), MDM, or traction control completely off. MDM is perfectly fine for beginners and possibly intermediates, and if you code Euro MDM I know advanced students who run with it on because they find that it never interferes unless they've really screwed up, at which point they're grateful for the help. But I would consider using MDM rather than fully on as soon as you're fairly comfortable on the track because otherwise you're going to burn through brakes faster from all the work DSC is doing.



You should try Normal on the track. I never run Sport, though I might if I were on a track with no elevation changes. People who've used telemetry have found that Sport sometimes feels faster, but the clock says they're faster with Normal. I believe that observation pertained to non-ZCP EDC, which would make sense because BMW's own suspension engineers recommend using Normal on non-ZCP EDC if you're on a track with elevation changes, though ZCP might be different since Sport is adaptive in that case.

And your observation about the feel makes sense; the harder EDC modes allow less weight transfer and thus less body roll, which translates to a more planted feel -- but there's also such a thing as being too stiff for the track you're on. If the suspension is so rigid it can't adapt to changes in the road surface quickly enough, you can end up with the tires losing contact with the road, which isn't good for putting power down or controlling the car.

again, great post

id add to use MDM asap. normal traction is way too intrusive, and unless you do something insane, MDM wont let anything bad happen to you.

I waited too long IMO to use traction off, I wish I would have done it sooner.

IMO the smart thing to do is to stage up in the very back when you go on track and start slow and build up speed as you get a feel for how the car behaves with traction off. starting in the back reduces stress and allows you to focus only on what you are doing, and not worry about traffic around you.

JMO

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by s4one

So were you on EDC comfort and MDM on?

When I was on EDC comfort, it felt like the car was sliding and the tires were "singing" pretty much every turn.

With EDC Sport, it feels like the car is on rails and I was able to go harder into turns. Should be like this right, harder/more aggressive suspension?

Thanks

I drove with traction off and in normal on edc. This was with ad08s and then nt01s. Granted the track I was at is pretty rough. To me the sport made it feel choppy without actually being any better at taking a set. I was also always running a square set up and car was pretty neutral.

[s4one]

Ok great, thanks for the suggestions.

I will try using EDC comfort (off) and MDM next time i am on the track. I do have euro MDM.

when you guys say normal EDC... thats one light?

1. EDC comfort (no lights)
2. EDC normal (1 light)
3. EDC sport (2 lights)

Is that right?

I want to try traction control off, will this mean that the car will start sliding like crazy into a drift around corners?

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by s4one

Ok great, thanks for the suggestions.

I will try using EDC comfort (off) and MDM next time i am on the track. I do have euro MDM.

when you guys say normal EDC... thats one light?

1. EDC comfort (no lights)
2. EDC normal (1 light)
3. EDC sport (2 lights)

Is that right?

I want to try traction control off, will this mean that the car will start sliding like crazy into a drift around corners?

Shouldn't but you need to be adding smooth inputs at the wheel, throttle, and brakes so you don't get outside the traction circle. If your new focus on one aspect at a time. Get your braking done mostly in a straight line, then turn in and maintain throttle. Don't add too much until mostly straightened out. Overlap them more and more as you work up in speed.

[s4one]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Shouldn't but you need to be adding smooth inputs at the wheel, throttle, and brakes so you don't get outside the traction circle. If your new focus on one aspect at a time. Get your braking done mostly in a straight line, then turn in and maintain throttle. Don't add too much until mostly straightened out. Overlap them more and more as you work up in speed.

That's my biggest mistake! Towards the end of the trackday, I was pushing the car pretty hard, well pushing my own limits, prob not the car.. I would go into a turn way too fast then during the turn i wouldn't have any gas in it and when i start to gas the car the RPMS is too low so there is a lag time since the RPM needs time to come back up.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by s4one

That's my biggest mistake! Towards the end of the trackday, I was pushing the car pretty hard, well pushing my own limits, prob not the car.. I would go into a turn way too fast then during the turn i wouldn't have any gas in it and when i start to gas the car the RPMS is too low so there is a lag time since the RPM needs time to come back up.

That just sounds like a matter of being in the right gear. If you are doing things right every corner should feel like your coming in too fast to make it, then barely slow down in time to get turned, then clawing thru the corner and barely have enough track to run out. Soon your comfortable with being uncomfortable.

[s4one]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

That just sounds like a matter of being in the right gear. If you are doing things right every corner should feel like your coming in too fast to make it, then barely slow down in time to get turned, then clawing thru the corner and barely have enough track to run out. Soon your comfortable with being uncomfortable.

Yea i need to get a better feel for the oem brakes...

[WarrantyTracker]

Originally Posted by s4one

That's my biggest mistake! Towards the end of the trackday, I was pushing the car pretty hard, well pushing my own limits, prob not the car.. I would go into a turn way too fast then during the turn i wouldn't have any gas in it and when i start to gas the car the RPMS is too low so there is a lag time since the RPM needs time to come back up.

It just takes a bit of practice to learn. You'll get it. You'll pick up more skills every track weekend.

Some people learn it faster than others. I learn it sllooww. . . .

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by s4one

Ok great, thanks for the suggestions.

I will try using EDC comfort (off) and MDM next time i am on the track. I do have euro MDM.

when you guys say normal EDC... thats one light?

1. EDC comfort (no lights)
2. EDC normal (1 light)
3. EDC sport (2 lights)

Is that right?

I want to try traction control off, will this mean that the car will start sliding like crazy into a drift around corners?

Yes those EDC settings are accurate. Try Normal rather than Comfort. As for DSC, if you want to turn it all the way off I have a few pieces of advice for you:

1. Tell your instructor you're doing that so he/she is aware and has a chance to recommend against it if he/she feels you're not ready.

2. Dial it back! Don't just assume that after turning it off you can continue driving the way you've been driving before when you had it on or in MDM. That can end very badly. Slow down initially when you first turn it off and build your speed back gradually.

3. If you've got 6MT, be ready to clutch in and brake in (aka "two feet in") if you end up starting to spin too much. You do NOT want the car to still be in gear without the clutch pedal in when the car starts rolling backwards. If you don't feel you'd be able to do that instinctively quickly enough in that sort of situation, don't turn DSC off.

4. Make damn sure you've taught yourself to always look where you want to go. If you or your instructor still catch you visually following cars in front of you rather than looking through them for your own line, chances are in a panic situation you'd fixate on a wall or ditch rather than looking where you want the car to go. That's the difference between a possible save and a virtually guaranteed incident.

5. And lastly, unless Euro MDM is intervening on your driving, consider just leaving it on. No point in removing a safety net that's not causing any problems for you IMHO. And if Euro MDM IS intervening on your driving, check with your instructor because unless you're already very advanced, it's more likely intervening because you're doing something wrong.