How many of you haven't seen redline?

[Bushum]

Originally Posted by Emm Tree

I beg to differ. This is a luxury vehicle, sir. This isn't some RX-8 or Civic Si that is made to be thrashed and trashed. I for one believe an investment should be protected. At all costs. I shiver to think what the engine experts at BMW would think of this thread. I guess their jobs are safe.

Maybe you guys all have money to burn. Maybe you don't respect your hard earned dollars. Resist the urge to damage your engine. These cars are extremely rare and should be treated as such. Just my $0.02.

I was back and forth but now I know for certain this person is making a go at tongue in cheek humor.

[O2ShootTheJ]

Originally Posted by jphughan

Interesting, I've never seen someone willing to run around on a track on a bike where their body is at much higher risk but not willing to risk their car's value. And HPDE insurance exists, fwiw. Check out Lockton and OnTrackInsurance. You tell them what you want to insure your car for in case you want to cover mods, etc and your rate is basically a fixed percentage of the value you give, though they offer some discounts if you buy coverage for multiple events upfront for the year, car club membership, etc.

And also fwiw, car damage incidents of any kind are relatively uncommon at the track. Incidents severe enough to warrant an insurance claim even more so, but car to car contact incidents are extremely rare even among the already uncommon cases of overall incidents, And car to car contact on a track day is a vanishingly small possibility, at least in the US where organizers require point-bys for passing. In Europe they have open passing even without points, which can lead to some asshat divebombing you in a corner and incorrectly assuming that you saw him approaching in your mirror.

For me it was the costs that influenced that more than anything. TDs on motorcycles are a lot cheaper (but still expensive) and as a fairly young guy (25) in Dental School on an Air Force scholarship I don't have a ton of disposable income month to month. $1,000 for a TD (ballparking entry fee, insurance, + misc costs) is hard to justify at this point in my life. I would love to do a couple though. And it's definitely good to know that the accidents aren't a common occurrence.

I gave up motorcycles because the risk of goiing down and breaking my hands was too high, so I'd love to get back out on the track in the car someday.

[Keca10]

TD will be much harder to justify when you have kids. I am gonna find a way though.

[O2ShootTheJ]

I'm hoping I have another 7-10 years before kids

[Kong Sheng Han]

Originally Posted by O2ShootTheJ

For me it was the costs that influenced that more than anything. TDs on motorcycles are a lot cheaper (but still expensive) and as a fairly young guy (25) in Dental School on an Air Force scholarship I don't have a ton of disposable income month to month. $1,000 for a TD (ballparking entry fee, insurance, + misc costs) is hard to justify at this point in my life. I would love to do a couple though. And it's definitely good to know that the accidents aren't a common occurrence.

I gave up motorcycles because the risk of goiing down and breaking my hands was too high, so I'd love to get back out on the track in the car someday.

Out of curiosity, what is your breakdown of that $1,000?

Here, one day entry without garage can cost me $125-275 and two days $300-350 (disregarding COTA).

Insurance cost varies. HPDE insurance covering about $26k cost me $205-215. I feel that it's not really necessary anymore at a track that doesn't have many walls. For a track with lots of walls like COTA or Sebring, I definitely would get insurance. You're only protecting your car; if you hit someone and/or damage the track, cost is probably coming out of pocket.

Misc costs being food/drinks, hotel, fuel, maintenance items. $250-ish max?

My last event breakdown:
$325 for weekend entry
$50 garage
No insurance
$125 one night at hotel
~$20 dinner, I brought my own stuff to consume at other times.
~35 gas
Maintenance- I'll worry about it when the time comes to replace parts. My car doesn't need anything right now.

$550-ish isn't too bad, I guess.

[RLI-Drew]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

Insurance cost varies. HPDE insurance covering about $26k cost me $205-215.

I think I can help you save a few bucks. The current price for a 1-3 day event at COTA with $26K in coverage comes to just $145. Check for yourself at RLItrackday.com

Same price if you're at Sebring.

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

if you hit someone and/or damage the track, cost is probably coming out of pocket.

Yep, no medical or liability included, but...
the policy does include supplemental coverage for Towing & Storage, Rental Car Reimbursement, Debris Removal Expenses and Pollutant Cleanup and Removal.

[Kong Sheng Han]

Originally Posted by RLI-Drew

I think I can help you save a few bucks. The current price for a 1-3 day event at COTA with $26K in coverage comes to just $145. Check for yourself at RLItrackday.com

Same price if you're at Sebring.

Yep, no medical or liability included, but...
the policy does include supplemental coverage for Towing & Storage, Rental Car Reimbursement, Debris Removal Expenses and Pollutant Cleanup and Removal.

Is coverage offered to people under 21? OnTrack won't cover me, but Lockton will.

What determines cost of coverage? If I choose MSR Houston and COTA, price is $145, regardless of organizer, how many days I'm doing, and deductible. When picking Texas World Speedway, the cost is more, and price only drops a little when I select an event date that's further out.

[ResoKP]

Pretty much the main reason I take the M3 out for a drive is to hit the redline...

[RLI-Drew]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

Is coverage offered to people under 21?

With RLItrackday.com, you have to be at least 18 years old.

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

What determines cost of coverage?

Some tracks are pricier due to a larger number or just more costly accidents happening there. Track Night in America and whether or not you are participating in TT also has an effect. Pricing could change down the line, but this is how things are currently.

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

price only drops a little when I select an event date that's further out.

Strange. How far out you purchase shouldn't have an effect.

Also, the quoted price is the amount you'll pay. We don't have any document/processing/payment/convenience/gotcha fees shenanigans.

Keep the questions coming!

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

What determines cost of coverage? If I choose MSR Houston and COTA, price is $145, regardless of organizer, how many days I'm doing, and deductible. When picking Texas World Speedway, the cost is more, and price only drops a little when I select an event date that's further out.

Probably at least partly the number of accidents the track is known for. TWS can be a nasty place because it's so high-speed so much of the time and has such horrible runoff. CotA has some dangerous spots too, but it's also got a lot of paved runoff and some slower sections.

[atopa2002]

Originally Posted by RLI-Drew

With RLItrackday.com, you have to be at least 18 years old.



Some tracks are pricier due to a larger number or just more costly accidents happening there. Track Night in America and whether or not you are participating in TT also has an effect. Pricing could change down the line, but this is how things are currently.



Strange. How far out you purchase shouldn't have an effect.

Also, the quoted price is the amount you'll pay. We don't have any document/processing/payment/convenience/gotcha fees shenanigans.

Keep the questions coming!

Do you cover VIR?

[RLI-Drew]

Originally Posted by atopa2002

Do you cover VIR?

Sure do!

Click here to see all the tracks we cover. Start typing 'Virginia' for 'Track Name' and you'll see it come up.

[amn3sia]

I've had my E90 for 3 weeks to the day, it has seen redline every day so far!!!

[swartzentruber]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

own stuff to consume at other times.
~35 gas

How the hell are you spending $35 in gas for a two day weekend. I'm sure I spend $35 just getting to and from my typical tracks (Road America or Gingerman). I can go through 1/3 of a tank per session, so easily 2 fillups for a weekend, meaning ~100 (assuming I don't throw in a little race fuel). Also, if you drag your wife or SO to the track, those food costs get a little pricier too.

[swartzentruber]

Originally Posted by jphughan

That was 1 out of only 2 car to car incidents I've ever seen that I was thinking of.

Yeah, they are pretty rare. I've now hit 57 track days (not a lot admittedly by some standards on these boards), and can only recall maybe 1 car-on-car incident, but it was kind of a funny one. I think it was in the instructors session, maybe advanced, and I guess the car checked up too much going into 6 at Road America, and got rear-end so bad his E36 M3 (I think that's what it was) ended up looking like a 318ti.

Yes, track incidents are fairly rare, although it does depend a lot both on the track and conditions. Even though lots of drivers say driving in the rain is the best teacher, the majority of serious incidents I'd seen occur in the rain. I have seriously seen cars that appear to accelerate once they hit wet grass -- if it's wet enough, you will not stop until you hit something if you go off on wet grass.

Also, it's a simple fact that some tracks truly have a much higher risk of issues than others. For my local tracks, Gingerman and Putnam I've seen very few to no incidents most weekends. Autobahn CC seems slightly riskier, but I can probably count on one hand weekends at Road America that I haven't seen serious wrecks, with more than a few that looked to be total losses. Personally, I don't find it to be that risky as long as you are smooth, run correct lines, and don't overcorrect at high speed (traits that serve you well at any track), but nonetheless it does see more than it's fair share of both hitting stuff incidents as well as a fair share of driveline/money shift/engine eating incidents.

The point of this soapbox is not that tracking is inherently all that risky, but that it does vary quite a bit amongst tracks, so if you routinely go without insurance at your local track because you never see incidents, don't automatically assume that's a sound strategy at a brand new track you've never run at. Fortunately, the M3 track forum is one of the best of any forum out there, so it's a great place to ask questions about new tracks or just getting started.

[cmo_93]

Pretty sure I redlined one the first time I drove one, felt like the car didn't want to shift and the salesman promptly yelled for me to slow down.

On a random side note: I drove a total of 3 C63s and went MUCH faster than I did on my M3 test drives and was never told to slow down, actually told to speed up once.

Only got to redline an M3 once before purchasing, since then, redline after redline after redline.

[kb9uwu]

Originally Posted by cmo_93

Pretty sure I redlined one the first time I drove one, felt like the car didn't want to shift and the salesman promptly yelled for me to slow down.

On a random side note: I drove a total of 3 C63s and went MUCH faster than I did on my M3 test drives and was never told to slow down, actually told to speed up once.

Only got to redline an M3 once before purchasing, since then, redline after redline after redline.

Man, that sucks. I've never had anyone at the dealer ride along on a test drive except for brand new vehicles.

[cmo_93]

Originally Posted by kb9uwu

Man, that sucks. I've never had anyone at the dealer ride along on a test drive except for brand new vehicles.

Well, i was fortunate enough to be able to purchase a car like this at 22 years old, and I look like an 18 year old or younger, so its somewhat understandable lol . All the same though, had I gone off of those test drives alone, I would have been in a C63 or an ISF, which I got to drive alone for as long as I wanted.

Actually, now that I think back on the process more, there were one or two BMW dealers that basically treated me like I was some kid out for joyrides, one of them being my own local dealer (who now asks me why I didn't buy from them). Why am I even driving a BMW? lol

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

My last event breakdown:
$325 for weekend entry
$50 garage
No insurance
$125 one night at hotel
~$20 dinner, I brought my own stuff to consume at other times.
~35 gas
Maintenance- I'll worry about it when the time comes to replace parts. My car doesn't need anything right now.

$550-ish isn't too bad, I guess.

You're forgetting some hidden costs.

My event breakdown for 2 days:
$350 for weekend entry
$250 for track insurance
$200 for hotel lodging
$60-ish for food
$200 for tires (4-5 track days for tires before replacement - $1000 for a set of 4)
$200-$300 for event gas (don't have a choice at Bimmerfest - you're not getting back in if you were leaving for gas)
$80 for brake pads (5-6 events for brake pads)
$30-$40 for oil (Change out the oil every 4 track days)

This doesn't count the $60 in gas I spend driving 300+ miles to go to one of the signature tracks in Southern CA though.

It's an expensive hobby for sure.

FWIW my car has seen redline probably 8000+ times in 134400 miles. Still going strong on original bearings. I saw a guy blow his S65 motor at the track recently though, so it's luck of the draw there.

[valek]

Originally Posted by cmo_93

Pretty sure I redlined one the first time I drove one, felt like the car didn't want to shift and the salesman promptly yelled for me to slow down.

On a random side note: I drove a total of 3 C63s and went MUCH faster than I did on my M3 test drives and was never told to slow down, actually told to speed up once.

Only got to redline an M3 once before purchasing, since then, redline after redline after redline.

1 launch multiple fuel cuts haha

[Kong Sheng Han]

I think I miscalculated fuel costs. Will keep track when I go tomorrow. I usually start at around 12 gallons and fuel up from 4-6 to 12 during lunch (every lb matters ). We get 8 24 minute sessions per day.

Originally Posted by swartzentruber

How the hell are you spending $35 in gas for a two day weekend. I'm sure I spend $35 just getting to and from my typical tracks (Road America or Gingerman). I can go through 1/3 of a tank per session, so easily 2 fillups for a weekend, meaning ~100 (assuming I don't throw in a little race fuel). Also, if you drag your wife or SO to the track, those food costs get a little pricier too.

I might be spending double, actually. But I also have an S54, not the S65, so less fuel consumption. I think it's best if you don't keep track of costs. Excluding fuel, I've spent more on the car than the purchase price of the car, and I'm scared to see what the updated list will look like; I think it's off by a few $k.

I go to track alone.

[redpriest]

Originally Posted by Kong Sheng Han

I think I miscalculated fuel costs. Will keep track when I go tomorrow. I usually start at around 12 gallons and fuel up from 4-6 to 12 during lunch (every lb matters ). We get 8 24 minute sessions per day.



I might be spending double, actually. But I also have an S54, not the S65, so less fuel consumption. I think it's best if you don't keep track of costs. Excluding fuel, I've spent more on the car than the purchase price of the car, and I'm scared to see what the updated list will look like; I think it's off by a few $k.

I go to track alone.

lmao, yeah, it's best not to track costs. I've spent more on track and motorsport expenses than I spent on the car itself too.