First Drive by a racing instructor

[asaulo1]

Originally Posted by scollins

In the end, if I could swing the $20k net spend to sell my 335i and get an E90 M3, I'd do it in a second!

Amen, bro.... call me crazy but I would gladly spend the extra $$ for the M3... having read all the good reviews of the vishnu tuned 335's, it was definitely on my radar but after seeing/hearing the M3 in person, it was hands down the one for me

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by Revin9k

Dinan cant even touch a V2 335. Dinan runs a 13sec 1/4 mile

There is only one time out there for it right now, and a guy ran 12.9 on runflats during his first time at the track.

A V2 Procede at the same track ran a 13.3 that same night.

[mdoog]

Originally Posted by Keto

I feel like a broken record, but echoing earlier sentiments in the thread, and many other threads like this one:

Depending on when you sell the car, the total cost of ownership of a modded 335 vs an M3 may not be all that different. Comparing costs only in regards to the upfront cost is incomplete. Additional hidden costs for modded cars (not an inclusive list):

1. Replacement of modded parts that break
2. Service charges for wear-and-tear items now not included in BMW maintenance
3. Repair costs following an accident --- will your insurance replace mods?
4. Service/repair costs for OEM parts that BMW thinks are broken due to mods

just a few, and of course the hassle factors, which may cost money as well as time:

1. Reputable shop to fix mods and associated possible delays
2. Convincing BMW to fix OEM parts affected by mods under OEM warranty
3. Replacing broken mod parts -- are they as available as the OEM stuff your dealer gets in a day, etc. Are you now paying for the fedex shipping of the part?
4. Hassle of obtaining warranty service from a smallish mod company vs large multinational corporation

Several of our members mitigate these concerns or budget for them. I post this not to argue about whether mods should be done at all -- clearly, for some, they should -- but to dispel the idea that modding is a practical way for a new 335 buyer to get a M3 for less money.

these may be reasons for you not to modify cars, but being concerned with replacing a broken aftermarket part should not be an issue if you research and get a quality part, sure there are cheap ebay knock offs but you get what you pay for, and when you ask if an insurance company would pay for mods im assuming that you think they dont, well just to let you know they do, and over what they should imo. Even a lifted '98 truck worth no more than $14k if sold by yourself, if totaled (this is the scenario that my friend had) he received $18k for the truck

it is true that aftermarket parts will hardly raise the value of a car, but as someone thought, no it doesnt lower it either.

im not saying that a modded 335i=m3 since i have not yet driven an m3, (no i dont own a 335i either) but a 335i isnt like comparing an evo to a porsche, the 335 is similar to the m3 in many regards and can even be improved upon, but also, given a year or two, how many modded m3's will there be? dont hate on aftermarket parts when that is the fate of m3s also, sure not all but definitely some, but think about the fact that a 335i brought to perform like a stock m3 will require exponentially more modifications to perform like that of a modified m3, assuming that it would even be possible

[sayemthree]

having driven a dinan 335i around sears point - I am ordering a m3. you said yourself on the 335i board that you have to spend so much to get the 335i to perform the same that they finally are only 10k or less apart in price and then the m3 will have way better resale value.

as far as the warrant. if your head gasket is blown and they are flatbedding your car to the dealer how do you stop them and carefully and completely remove the software. even then BMW can retrieve the history of your ewngine before the problem and see that you exceeded the rev limit.

[ybbiz34]

Originally Posted by sayemthree

having driven a dinan 335i around sears point - I am ordering a m3. you said yourself on the 335i board that you have to spend so much to get the 335i to perform the same that they finally are only 10k or less apart in price and then the m3 will have way better resale value.

as far as the warrant. if your head gasket is blown and they are flatbedding your car to the dealer how do you stop them and carefully and completely remove the software. even then BMW can retrieve the history of your ewngine before the problem and see that you exceeded the rev limit.

It doesn't matter. You don't have to remove the Dinan software. If they determined the software caused it, Dinan will have to pay for the repair. How smoothly does that go, who knows. You'll hear dozens of stories saying everything gets taken care of, but always that will be overshadowed by the guy that comes out and tells his horror story (which you are always getting just one side of the story). That is the point of getting Dinan, not having to worry about hiding it from the dealer.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by ybbiz34

It doesn't matter. You don't have to remove the Dinan software. If they determined the software caused it, Dinan will have to pay for the repair. How smoothly does that go, who knows. You'll hear dozens of stories saying everything gets taken care of, but always that will be overshadowed by the guy that comes out and tells his horror story (which you are always getting just one side of the story). That is the point of getting Dinan, not having to worry about hiding it from the dealer.

When ever will Dinan have there ECU reflash ready!!! ACS, Racing Dynamic and some others already have it. What are they waiting for!!!! Maybe I'll just go with ACS reflash and that's it!!!

[M3Kevin]

Keep in mind - my comparison for the M3 and the 335i is from a GT3.

So - 335i = gutless.

and I know how to drive, thank you very much.

In addition to having driven some of the worlds better handling cars. Corvette Z06, Porsche Carrera, Porsche Twin Turbo 996 and 997. Porsche GT3. Ferrari F430. Some of these in anger. (Z06 and GT3)

End of the day - the 335i left me un-impressed. A typical quality Coupe/Sedan ride. Which is not what I am looking for.

Kevin

[Hans Delbruck]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

The steering was better than I thought it might be, and maybe equivalent to the 335i's in terms of road feel.

If it only felt "equivalent" to the 335i's steering then that is a problem, as the 335i's steering felt generic to me.

I thought the M3 had a much quicker ratio?

I guess I will find out tomorrow when I test drive.
Thanks for your impressions!

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

If it only felt "equivalent" to the 335i's steering then that is a problem, as the 335i's steering felt generic to me.

I thought the M3 had a much quicker ratio?

I guess I will find out tomorrow when I test drive.
Thanks for your impressions!

I don't feel the steering is at all equivalent!!! I had a 335 up until a few months ago and my brother just got one last week, NOT THE SAME!!!! And my car has been driven by a current Champ Car driver just 4 weeks ago and he said it blows the 335 away!!! He loved it!!!!

[Hans Delbruck]

Originally Posted by M3Kevin

End of the day - the 335i left me un-impressed. A typical quality Coupe/Sedan ride. Which is not what I am looking for.

Kevin

+1 It didn't even take a mile to cross the 335i off my list. A quality car but not for me - it lacked any edge and felt "generic"

[lucid]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

I thought the M3 had a much quicker ratio?

Yes, it does.

Also, I don't know what to make of the OP's remark regarding the brakes--that there shouldn't be a difference between how the 335 performs vs the M3 with track pads?

[KonigsTiger]

This is a lame discussion, its like saying why should a spend more money for an F430 if its only 0.2 seconds faster and only very slight gains in performance overall. And the M3 is distinctly different than the 335, wherever I park the car, it attacks a least a few on lookers where my 335 did not!!!!

[Mack211]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

I will keep considering geting the M3 every day. The fact I have not ordered one shows how good the 335i is.

The fact that you will consider getting the M3 everyday shows what your 335 is missing.

[lucid]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

+1 It didn't even take a mile to cross the 335i off my list. A quality car but not for me - it lacked any edge and felt "generic"

Hans, I can definitely see your "knuckle sandwich" attitude not blending all that well with the 335!

Interested to hear your take on the M3 tomorrow...

[M3Kevin]

Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck

+1 It didn't even take a mile to cross the 335i off my list. A quality car but not for me - it lacked any edge and felt "generic"

Thank you. You understand what I mean. NO disrespect for the car. Just not what I want... The goal of the 335i is TOTALLY different than the base goal of the M3 E92.

As for the previous generation M3 - I have not driven one. So I can't really comment on what I'd like not like about it.

[misterng]

Is it possible to lower the M3 if the car is equiped with EDC and is it necessary to has EDC if it's not for track use?

[KonigsTiger]

Yes, you can lower the car with EDC with no problems!!! And no, you don't need EDC for either track or daily driving, its just a nice feature to have!!!

[dawgdog]

I have a heavily modified 335 which I love. Neverthelss, I placed my order for an M3 coupe with DCT yesterday. They are different cars. The 335 just has a ton or torque everywhere, but it is difficult to keep my wheels planted. The M3 is a very civilized car that at the same time has remarkable handling and is a beast up high in the rev range. I like the adjustable suspension, though my KWV2s are pretty nice as well. At least my wife won't be complaining about the "stagecoach ride" as she did when I owned an e46 M3.

My 335 is going to my brother in law who is a BMWphile so I will still be able to drive it. I love my car, but also love the new M. BMW should be congratulated on both of these fine machines.

[sajakh]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

WIth similar equipment (sunroof, nice stereo, leather, 6-speed, premium package) an M3 will run $18K more than a 335i. Then factor in the fact you can get $2K off sticker of a 335i vs. paying sticker for the M3. That is a $20K difference.

Suspension is $2K installed. LSD is up to $5K installed. Procede is $1400. Brakes are not a real issue since either will need track pads and, with them, should be fine. So for $8400 you get very close in all-around performance (switch to PS2s when you wear out your run flats and you will be even closer).

The warranty thing is a real concern, and one that make me consider the M3 for that reason alone. But in all reality it is a very small risk. The fuel economy difference adds about $750 a year to the cost of the M3 over the cost of the 335i (if you drive 15k miles per year).

The fact is a 335i is very good, and tuned it is even better. It is not a night and day difference between the cars, since they are built on basically the same platform, have similar interiors, handling dynamics are similar, etc. If the M3 cost $10K more I would already have one. But it doesn't and $20K is almost a 50% increase!!

I will keep considering geting the M3 every day. The fact I have not ordered one shows how good the 335i is.

If the slightly modded 335i is "almost" as good as the M3 on the road and the M3 "blows away" the modded M3 on the track, how does the warranty argument hold water when BMWNA states explicitly that track use voids the warranty??

[rai]

Originally Posted by e36jakeo

The whole time I was driving the M3 I kept asking myself "is this car worth $20K over the 335i?"

With V2 power it is VERY hard to justify as a street car. I take my racing skills to some of the best back roads in Northern Cal and the 335i shines there, too (way more than most realize).

getting a really nice variable ramp LSD for $4500 installed and KW2 suspension for around $2K installed and hold onto the 335i for at least another 2 year. By then they will work any bugs out of the M3 and I will be able to pick up a year-old one for $53K or less.

I see you already have a 335i so it's not the same story, but a new 335 is not $20K less than a M3. Base v base price is like $17K (I believe) and you are talking about engine mod and LDS and suspension mod (not to mention wheels etc.) easily talking $10K in mods (am I correct?) so really a 335i +$10K in mods is now ~$52K when you can get a base M3 for ~$56K. All options are extra be they on a M3 or a 335i (except the radio is better on the 335i) but if you are talking about a base 335i vs a loaded M3 of course the M3 costs more, but really with a ton of mods on a 335i it's not a lot cheaper IMO

Now you already have a 335i so it's a different story but if you were looking to buy and didn't have the 335i and all the money you invested in maybe the M3 would make more sense.

[dab33d]

Originally Posted by RandyB

The 335i looks like a chick car next to the M3 - sorry. There is no denying the value, but I won't even blink when spending the extra money for an M3. It's worth it to me, and yes I have driven both, albeit in stock form.

muhahahah... it does look like a hot chick should possibly come out of one !

[lucid]

Originally Posted by sajakh

how does the warranty argument hold water when BMWNA states explicitly that track use voids the warranty??

Nonsense. Track usage while the machine is operated within its specified operational range does NOT void warranty. I double checked this at my dealership with someone other than my CA today after finalizing my deal. He even said I could come back for rotor/pad replacements after I wear them out on the track.

This is a machine with clear operational specifications. If you don't overrev it, drive it while any warning messages are on such as coolant temperature etc, they cannot and will not object to track driving.

But if you are the kind of idiot who drops the clutch from 8000 rpms and does burn outs all day long, remove the rev limiter and rev it up to 9000-9500 rpms to see what happens, you can't be helped; those will most likely be picked up from the ECU logs if something goes wrong. However, that kind of abuse has nothing to do with track driving.