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02-27-2013, 03:39 PM | #23 |
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Drives: 2012 E92 M3
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More seats than M3 owners have friends.
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02-27-2013, 04:08 PM | #24 |
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+1000000
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mods: track ready stuff
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02-27-2013, 04:08 PM | #25 |
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Weight, ride height, and stock exhaust is too quiet for me
I don't get the torque thing. It accelerates like a maniac, and loses traction easily. I love having to rev it. Beats my old LS2 engine any ol day |
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02-27-2013, 04:10 PM | #26 | |
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As for exhaust, I agree you don't hear a lot of exhaust sound, but you get plenty of intake and engine sound any time you're running more than 50% throttle -- which is kind of cool, lets you have a sleeper car when driving calmly and a monster when driving harder. I haven't looked into aftermarket exhausts, but if more exhaust noise would mean hearing less of the sweet intake and engine noise, I'm not sure I'd want that tradeoff.
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'16 Cayman GT4 (delivery pics, comparison to E92 M3 write-up)
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02-27-2013, 04:12 PM | #27 |
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when i first got the car i would have said torque..but after going to the track a few times i would now say weight.
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02-27-2013, 04:13 PM | #28 | |
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I'd go with less weight: it improves relative horsepower/torque, mpg, and cornering. There, all of your flaws are fixed by this one change. |
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02-27-2013, 04:15 PM | #29 |
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TORQUE
but with that said, I like the high revving aspect so less torque is fine I guess. Still a weakness in my mind, even though I will gladly put up with it.
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02-27-2013, 04:16 PM | #30 |
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Weight
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02-27-2013, 04:23 PM | #32 | |
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As for the other statements on exhaust noise, consider that the next ///M3 and M4 (F80/F82) will likely have engine/exhaust noise generated by an electronic gizmo and piped into the cabin - just like the current F10 ///M5. I'd rather hear my S65 sing naturally - albeit a bit louder - than listen to a simulated noisemaker... Back to the original question on the current M3's biggest weakness. I guess I would have to say I haven't found one yet. |
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02-27-2013, 04:23 PM | #33 |
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Torque & Weight
If you say MPG you've obviously bought the wrong vehicle.
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2012 BMW S1000RR — Racing Red/Alpine White - Sold 2009 BMW M3 Coupe — Alpine White on Fox Red, DCT - Sold 2003 BMW M3 — Carbon Black on Black, 6MT - Sold 1995 BMW M3 Coupe — Cosmos Black on Black - Sold |
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02-27-2013, 04:31 PM | #34 | |
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You can respectfully disagree, but I respectfully point out that if you've never taken your car to the track, you don't have the necessary data to support your position. I challenge you to find anyone who HAS tracked their car who shares your belief -- though you should have no problem at all finding people who thought as you do UNTIL they tracked their car. If you're concerned about tracking your own car for whatever reason, I'd suggest going to a track event as a spectator; it typically only costs maybe $25-50 and often allows you to catch rides with instructors and advanced students. Ride along with someone in an M3 and then try to come back here saying the M3 can fully be appreciated on spirited drives on public roads. And then imagine how much more fun and appreciation for the M3 you'd have gotten out of that track experience if you'd been the one behind the wheel. There's always M School if you want to avoid using your own car -- and if you read M School reviews on this forum, you'll find that lots of other people who thought they already knew what their M cars were about had their eyes opened by that experience. And it only gets even more fun and eye-opening the better you get as a driver.
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Gone but not forgotten: '11.75 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT (owned 5/2011 - 11/2015) Last edited by jphughan; 02-27-2013 at 05:28 PM.. |
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02-27-2013, 04:32 PM | #35 |
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In my opinion, if the E9X M3 were 500 lbs lighter, it would be twice as amazing a vehicle. As a side note, I don't even consider torque to be a weakness on the M3. Some points often overlooked on this torque issue: 1) Peak torque is far more significant as a marketing tool than a performance metric (M could have engineered an engine for a peak torque of 350 lb-ft to make armchair racers happy....and still make it slower in acceleration than the current engine at 295 lb-ft peak torque); to understand engine torque, you NEED to see the torque curve. 2) Gearing makes engine torque largely irrelevant. The M3 is geared short for this very reason. 3) The M3 is able to leverage near peak torque over a wide band of engine speed. I can't help but think that the majority of people screaming "I NEED MORE TORQUE" are comparing vehicle spec sheets, and they find themselves disappointed with the number 295 lb-ft, without actually concerning themselves with performance figures (which are, really, the ONLY figures that matter). Some food for thought: The 2011 Mustang GT 5.0 (ignore the fact that, in both luxury and refinement, these vehicles are light years apart) is almost exactly the same weight as the M3 (lighter, depending on the figures you use), has nearly the exact same rated horsepower at the crank, and has nearly 100 lb-ft MORE peak engine torque than the E92 M3. The Mustang, however, is NO faster 0-60 mph (worth noting because people still care about 0-60, despite it being more of a traction test than anything at these power levels) and is no faster in the 1/4 mile. Do we want "MORE TORQUE!" to make our cars faster, or to be able to brag about "400 lb-ft of TORQUE!" to our friends? |
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02-27-2013, 04:38 PM | #36 | |
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02-27-2013, 04:41 PM | #37 |
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I 1000% agree. If you haven't tracked, you haven't really tested the limits, even if you do "spirited" street driving, even if you drive like an asshat.
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02-27-2013, 04:44 PM | #40 | |
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I agree with you on the intake sound. It's magical. I'm not a big "loud exhaust guy". I'm quite conservative, FWIW. I just want a BIT more of a mix between induction sound and exhaust, and in my E90, the exhaust is pretty mute, even with the windows down, for some reason. On my last car -- a 2006 GTO -- I went with headers and a catless setup, but kept the OEM stock mufflers, as it was the perfect balance to me. I think for our cars, from what I've heard, I may either go catless in the future with stock catback, or go with the Megan Racing exhaust for "bang for buck". We'll see. all in all, it's still a MARVELOUS car, IMO. If it weighed around 3300 lbs, would be darn near perfect for me. |
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02-27-2013, 04:45 PM | #41 |
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The reason it lacks Torque is because how engine is designed. Its small, light, high revving etc. Look at formula one engines, small light weight, high revving etc
Both lack low end power, but rev very fast and high. Not many engines are like this, be happy trust me. people who say it lacks Torque, do not understand its a 4L v8 that revs to 8000RPM + its not making any Torque lol and BMW made a very impressive engine |
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02-27-2013, 04:46 PM | #42 | |
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02-27-2013, 04:50 PM | #43 |
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I do not think the car is undertired and like the balance and grip provided by the 245/265s which, with a softer track compound, are plenty even for the track. The next model will come with 255/275, adding weight to my view that wishes for 295s do not take into account the negatives, one of which is weight, of wider tires.
I also do not think the car is lacking for torque. The torque curve of this engine is very useable. Only weak points, in my opinion, are 1) fuel economy where perhaps a lower ratio 7th gear would have helped here as 7th is never needed as a performance gear save for top speed runs where the limiter cuts in early in rev range of 6th anyway. And 2) weight, where 300 lbs less would've made this car even more special. |
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02-27-2013, 04:51 PM | #44 |
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The M3 torque is fine. Silly bunch of whiners, just drive it like it was meant to be driven. This isn't American muscle. I'd rather have that extra 2k RPMs than 100 ftlbs.
I would say the cold engine/transmission jerkiness is my biggest complaint. MPG isn't good but I knew what I was getting into. Everything else is near perfect for me. |
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