BMW NA Approves New S65 Engine Replacement Due to Bad Rod Bearings

anom3 · 07-08-2014, 02:39 AM

dont take anything i say as 100% as im just basing it on the countless threads i read on this rod bearing issue, but...

my understanding is that a rythmic (steady tick-tick-tick...) tick that does not change with rpm is normal.

anything that is random sounding AND changes with RPM is usually a bad sign

my engine makes the steady tick-tick-tick. the tick-tick-tick does not change with rpm and is 100% rythmic (non-random).

someone want to confirm if what im saying is likely / unlikely to be true?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisK

What do you guys think about this? This is my car last year.

TX · 07-08-2014, 04:34 AM

Chris K,
That doesn't sound very good. I can't explain that nose as the typical normal excuse of metal changing shape from temperature change. It really does sound internal to the engine. It's a random pattern. I've seen other videos posted with that type of noise. Maybe someone else can chime in here.
Even my 09 with 28ppm lead count in the oil doesn't have that sound. I have a very steady swoosh, swoosh sound on the lower end as I presume my very worn bearings rotate. I tend to only hear the sound when I'm putting air in the front tires while it's running.
I've never had that random odd tick/knocking sound in these videos.

Edit: anom, you're fine with the tick tick tick, I (we?) all have it. It's these random knocking sounds in these videos that make us go Hmmmm??

ChrisK · 07-08-2014, 05:15 AM

It's those random ticks that bother me.

TX · 07-08-2014, 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisK

It's those random ticks that bother me.

Sorry to stray from your topic, but now seeing as you have a 2011 model year, I thought the bearing tolerances were adjusted somewhere around 2011 to a slightly larger gap? there was a rather large thread here but its been a long time since I've looked at those posts so please forgive me if I'm incorrect. BMW also switched somewhere around 2011 to a new bearing metal moving away from the lead to some other metal so the lead traces in the oil reports are no longer valid for bearing wear. I don't recall what the new metal was.

That said if I remember correctly there was a fellow who posted on youtube his own video of a 2011(?) with a blown motor while he was racing some lexus. the posts went around here for a while. I believe he paid some amount of cash price out of pocket for a new engine for some reason. I really don't remember the full details. Does anyone else have more info on this?
Regards,
X

ChrisK · 07-08-2014, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TX

Sorry to stray from your topic, but now seeing as you have a 2011 model year, I thought the bearing tolerances were adjusted somewhere around 2011 to a slightly larger gap? there was a rather large thread here but its been a long time since I've looked at those posts so please forgive me if I'm incorrect. BMW also switched somewhere around 2011 to a new bearing metal moving away from the lead to some other metal so the lead traces in the oil reports are no longer valid for bearing wear. I don't recall what the new metal was.

That said if I remember correctly there was a fellow who posted on youtube his own video of a 2011(?) with a blown motor while he was racing some lexus. the posts went around here for a while. I believe he paid some amount of cash price out of pocket for a new engine for some reason. I really don't remember the full details. Does anyone else have more info on this?
Regards,
X

I must have the newer (non-lead) bearings. When I had my oil checked last year, there was almost no lead at all. I take my car in for its last service next week so I will do another Blackstone test to see if anything has changed.

s85e90 · 07-08-2014, 07:01 PM

Alot of sheep/fear mongering in here................

Leonardo629 · 07-08-2014, 07:03 PM

ChrisK, if you have the newer version of the bearings, you'd see zero lead in your oil analysis, you'd still see copper, but absolute zero lead.

ChrisK · 07-08-2014, 10:21 PM

I had approx 18.3k on the car when I sent this out last year.

TX · 07-09-2014, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisK

I had approx 18.3k on the car when I sent this out last year.

Report looks really, really good. ZERO lead means you don't run lead bearings and not that they are not wearing (fingers crossed) I don't really see any issues at all, maybe iron is a bit high?

Ezio · 07-09-2014, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s85e90

Alot of sheep/fear mongering in here................

i am fearless..... dat warranty

SenorFunkyPants · 07-09-2014, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anom3

dont take anything i say as 100% as im just basing it on the countless threads i read on this rod bearing issue, but...

my understanding is that a rythmic (steady tick-tick-tick...) tick that does not change with rpm is normal.

anything that is random sounding AND changes with RPM is usually a bad sign

my engine makes the steady tick-tick-tick. the tick-tick-tick does not change with rpm and is 100% rythmic (non-random).

someone want to confirm if what im saying is likely / unlikely to be true?

Did you take a 10W60 oil sample before you switched to Mobil1 the other day?

ChrisK · 07-09-2014, 06:58 AM

I need to find that TSB regarding the bedplate.

BPMSport · 07-10-2014, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisK

I need to find that TSB regarding the bedplate.

Sent you the measure #. Shoot me your email address and I'll email it.

surewin · 08-24-2014, 07:21 PM

I had this exact rod bearing issue recently. I actually tried to reach out to BMW NA to see if they can cover the cost. My engine has 62k miles on it.

The representative at BMW NA said that I needed to take it to a dealership to get it diagnosed even though I already had the Blackstone report indicating bearing wear. He said that there was no guarantee that BMW will cover the repairs after the diagnosis was done, especially since I was out of warranty (out of CPO warranty by 4 months)

Bob Smith BMW in Calabasas, CA then proceeded to quote me $2300k for the diagnosis, which I would have to pay out of pocket, claiming that dropping the oil pan and looking inside was the only way to see what damage was done. Since I was already certain what the problem was, and there was no guarantee that BMW would cover the cost of repair, and the cost of diagnosis alone was comparable to what the good folks at EAS were going to charge me to fix my problem, it was quite easy to come to the decision I made.

EAS was great in replacing the bearings and very thorough in cleaning out the bearing debris in the engine. ARP position rod bolts and WPC treated bearings were installed, so at least I have the piece of mind that stronger parts were replaced.

Below are pictures EAS took of my worn bearings and my Blackstone report:

drexplode · 08-26-2014, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisK

I must have the newer (non-lead) bearings. When I had my oil checked last year, there was almost no lead at all. I take my car in for its last service next week so I will do another Blackstone test to see if anything has changed.

When did BMW change to non-lead bearings? For a 2011 produced in Apr 2011; which bearing material is used?

Also, if someone has non-lead bearing materials then how can you diagnose a potential bearing issue (besides an odd engine sound)? Would an oil analysis show anything?

BMRLVR · 08-26-2014, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swamp2

I've done it myself, its quite a PITA especially right side closest to cabin. Although there is probably a torque correction due to all of the extensions and adapters I just stick with torque.

No torque correction needed as long as the effective length of the torque wrench is not changed.

The only time you use a correction factor is when the wrench exceeds 15 degrees from perpendicular to the fastener, or you use a device that changes the lever length, like a crows foot, half moon wrench, or torque adaptor.

CONGRATS on the new engine BMW M3 Guy!

team23jordan · 08-05-2015, 03:59 PM

good to hear that the OP got a new motor (great job BMW!)
however, this also got a lot of the owners worried LOL

ksa · 08-05-2015, 04:16 PM

Congrats on that, glad you got to save that much money. Would have sucked to have to fork out the cash out of your pocked. I am so impressed by BMW NA.

Now my question, is this rod bearing issue confined to particular years of E92's or it could happen to 2012's and 2013's as well?

pbonsalb · 08-05-2015, 04:39 PM

Can and has happened to all years but as noted just a small percentage. I did mine and am happy I did but most people do not bother. To me it was a risk I was willing to insure against and changing bearings was my method. Insurance policy would have been expensive for my then 6 year old car

Flying Ace · 08-05-2015, 04:46 PM

I wonder what oil OP is running today

Peertwelve · 08-05-2015, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

I wonder what oil OP is running today

I would like to know if BMW Na provided any break-in or oil advice that contradicts what is printed in our owners manual. If they have internalized this as a real issue, prescribing updated guidance could be key for reproducing their goodwill in the future. OP?

Shaung · 08-06-2015, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surewin

I had this exact rod bearing issue recently. I actually tried to reach out to BMW NA to see if they can cover the cost. My engine has 62k miles on it.

The representative at BMW NA said that I needed to take it to a dealership to get it diagnosed even though I already had the Blackstone report indicating bearing wear. He said that there was no guarantee that BMW will cover the repairs after the diagnosis was done, especially since I was out of warranty (out of CPO warranty by 4 months)

Bob Smith BMW in Calabasas, CA then proceeded to quote me $2300k for the diagnosis, which I would have to pay out of pocket, claiming that dropping the oil pan and looking inside was the only way to see what damage was done. Since I was already certain what the problem was, and there was no guarantee that BMW would cover the cost of repair, and the cost of diagnosis alone was comparable to what the good folks at EAS were going to charge me to fix my problem, it was quite easy to come to the decision I made.

EAS was great in replacing the bearings and very thorough in cleaning out the bearing debris in the engine. APR position rod bolts and WPC treated bearings were installed, so at least I have the piece of mind that stronger parts were replaced.

Below are pictures EAS took of my worn bearings and my Blackstone report:

Why does your BlackStone report list your engine incorrectly?

07-08-2014, 04:34 AM	#244
TX Captain 366 Rep 860 Posts Drives: 2009 ///M3 E92 APW 6MT Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: South FL iTrader: (0)	Chris K, That doesn't sound very good. I can't explain that nose as the typical normal excuse of metal changing shape from temperature change. It really does sound internal to the engine. It's a random pattern. I've seen other videos posted with that type of noise. Maybe someone else can chime in here. Even my 09 with 28ppm lead count in the oil doesn't have that sound. I have a very steady swoosh, swoosh sound on the lower end as I presume my very worn bearings rotate. I tend to only hear the sound when I'm putting air in the front tires while it's running. I've never had that random odd tick/knocking sound in these videos. Edit: anom, you're fine with the tick tick tick, I (we?) all have it. It's these random knocking sounds in these videos that make us go Hmmmm?? __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-08-2014, 05:15 AM	#245
ChrisK Major General 4449 Rep 7,594 Posts Drives: '19 M2C Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chicagoland iTrader: (7) Garage List 2019 BMW M2C [7.00] 2015 Porsche Macan S [0.00]	It's those random ticks that bother me. __________________ www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com 2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-08-2014, 07:01 PM	#248
s85e90 Brigadier General 192 Rep 3,633 Posts Drives: black e90 Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: everywhere iTrader: (2)	Alot of sheep/fear mongering in here................
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-08-2014, 07:03 PM	#249
Leonardo629 Lieutenant Colonel 168 Rep 1,792 Posts Drives: 2013 M3 Coupe Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Taiwan iTrader: (10)	ChrisK, if you have the newer version of the bearings, you'd see zero lead in your oil analysis, you'd still see copper, but absolute zero lead.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-08-2014, 10:21 PM	#250
ChrisK Major General 4449 Rep 7,594 Posts Drives: '19 M2C Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chicagoland iTrader: (7) Garage List 2019 BMW M2C [7.00] 2015 Porsche Macan S [0.00]	I had approx 18.3k on the car when I sent this out last year. Attached Images __________________ www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com 2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

07-09-2014, 06:58 AM	#254
ChrisK Major General 4449 Rep 7,594 Posts Drives: '19 M2C Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chicagoland iTrader: (7) Garage List 2019 BMW M2C [7.00] 2015 Porsche Macan S [0.00]	I need to find that TSB regarding the bedplate. __________________ www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com 2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-24-2014, 07:21 PM	#256
surewin ///M3mber 185 Rep 430 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 M3 Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Southern CA iTrader: (3) Garage List 2008 BMW E92 M3 [0.00]	I had this exact rod bearing issue recently. I actually tried to reach out to BMW NA to see if they can cover the cost. My engine has 62k miles on it. The representative at BMW NA said that I needed to take it to a dealership to get it diagnosed even though I already had the Blackstone report indicating bearing wear. He said that there was no guarantee that BMW will cover the repairs after the diagnosis was done, especially since I was out of warranty (out of CPO warranty by 4 months) Bob Smith BMW in Calabasas, CA then proceeded to quote me $2300k for the diagnosis, which I would have to pay out of pocket, claiming that dropping the oil pan and looking inside was the only way to see what damage was done. Since I was already certain what the problem was, and there was no guarantee that BMW would cover the cost of repair, and the cost of diagnosis alone was comparable to what the good folks at EAS were going to charge me to fix my problem, it was quite easy to come to the decision I made. EAS was great in replacing the bearings and very thorough in cleaning out the bearing debris in the engine. ARP position rod bolts and WPC treated bearings were installed, so at least I have the piece of mind that stronger parts were replaced. Below are pictures EAS took of my worn bearings and my Blackstone report: __________________ 6-Speed \| Inconel M Exhaust \| Stoptech \| Macht Schnell \| AST Instagram: surewin_e92m Last edited by surewin; 09-08-2015 at 01:03 AM..
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-05-2015, 03:59 PM	#259
team23jordan Enlisted Member 5 Rep 41 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Seattle iTrader: (0)	good to hear that the OP got a new motor (great job BMW!) however, this also got a lot of the owners worried LOL
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-05-2015, 04:16 PM	#260
ksa Major 1070 Rep 1,393 Posts Drives: Aston Martin Vantage & others Join Date: Aug 2015 Location: Alberta/Canada iTrader: (3)	Congrats on that, glad you got to save that much money. Would have sucked to have to fork out the cash out of your pocked. I am so impressed by BMW NA. Now my question, is this rod bearing issue confined to particular years of E92's or it could happen to 2012's and 2013's as well?
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-05-2015, 04:39 PM	#261
pbonsalb Lieutenant General 5234 Rep 10,616 Posts Drives: 18 F90 M5, 99 E36 M3 Turbo Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: New England iTrader: (4)	Can and has happened to all years but as noted just a small percentage. I did mine and am happy I did but most people do not bother. To me it was a risk I was willing to insure against and changing bearings was my method. Insurance policy would have been expensive for my then 6 year old car
	Appreciate 0 Quote

08-05-2015, 04:46 PM	#262
Flying Ace Lieutenant General 4985 Rep 11,891 Posts Drives: G05 45e, 997.1 & 991.1 GT3s Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: SF, CA iTrader: (5)	I wonder what oil OP is running today __________________ 22 Phytonic/Coffee X5 45e (CoVID-free) 08 Speed Yellow 911 GT3 Sharkwerks 12 AW/Cinnamon X5d Sports Pkg (retired) 14 AW/Beige M6GC ZCP, MPE, V2 steering wheel, vorsteiner (retired) 08 SSII/Black E90 M3 (retired)
	Appreciate 0 Quote