Custom ECU Tuners

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by Z K

I'm just mentioning on a stock car - the effect of a tune on a completely stock car.

I had messaged you regarding purchasing/performing a 240E factory update for my car years ago. You could not do it so I ended up buying the equipment and flashing it myself.

I did a dragy test way back in 2018. Bone stock e92 DCT comp carbon roof around 38k miles. California's finest pump 91 craptane.

In roughy the same weather conditions at the same location I ran the 1/4 mile for trap speed twice. First stock. The car did 113.8 mph. Then did the Alpine Stage 1 tune. Not a custom tune but just their generic one. I asked for the custom 8600 fuel cut but that's not what I received. Same 8350 cut as stock. Anyway the car did 115.3 so it picked up 1.5 mph. Maybe 20hp. Might have gotten 116 with higher 8600 fuel cut. Anyway I ditched the tune as I prefer the behavior of how the car drives stock.

[DRLane]

Y'all are hilarious.

If you have this much free time I have 3 yards of gravel I need distributed around landscaping in my backyard.

[jp1984]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

I did a dragy test way back in 2018. Bone stock e92 DCT comp carbon roof around 38k miles. California's finest pump 91 craptane.

In roughy the same weather conditions at the same location I ran the 1/4 mile for trap speed twice. First stock. The car did 113.8 mph. Then did the Alpine Stage 1 tune. Not a custom tune but just their generic one. I asked for the custom 8600 fuel cut but that's not what I received. Same 8350 cut as stock. Anyway the car did 115.3 so it picked up 1.5 mph. Maybe 20hp. Might have gotten 116 with higher 8600 fuel cut. Anyway I ditched the tune as I prefer the behavior of how the car drives stock.

Did you ever consider a different tune? Just out of curiosity, lots of tuners say they adjust for drive ability, but I am not sure where that shows up in the tune, or if it is just adjusting throttle mapping.

I was thinking of going with an Epic stage 1 tune even though I have a stage 2 applicable car. My thought line was, I don't need that extra ~9hp and 7ft/tq if it means that the car wants to drive like a race spec all the time.

I will reach out to Randy and see what he thinks. I am also not sure how the custom logs come into play in this regard either. I know the ECU is good at self adapting, but I will have like a stage 1.5 tune I think. (kidding, but I wonder what else the ECU adjusts for after a tune or if it is generally locked after tune)

[jp1984]

Originally Posted by DRLane

Y'all are hilarious.

If you have this much free time I have 3 yards of gravel I need distributed around landscaping in my backyard.

This Medical Practitioner OBVIOUSLY does not even have an M3 and is just a dreamer....




do yer own yard work!

[Longboarder]

Originally Posted by jp1984

Did you ever consider a different tune? Just out of curiosity, lots of tuners say they adjust for drive ability, but I am not sure where that shows up in the tune, or if it is just adjusting throttle mapping.

I was thinking of going with an Epic stage 1 tune even though I have a stage 2 applicable car. My thought line was, I don't need that extra ~9hp and 7ft/tq if it means that the car wants to drive like a race spec all the time.

I will reach out to Randy and see what he thinks. I am also not sure how the custom logs come into play in this regard either. I know the ECU is good at self adapting, but I will have like a stage 1.5 tune I think. (kidding, but I wonder what else the ECU adjusts for after a tune or if it is generally locked after tune)

I just wanted a 8600 fuel cut to be honest and didnt care about the power increase . I can mix some e85 with pump 91 and likely I can see 114-115 traps on the stock ECU but haven't tried as it doesn't matter much to me.

I paired the Alpine tune with the GTS DCT tune. I didnt like the drivability at low speeds and stop and go driving. Also, optimal launches were not achievable. Stock, I can rip 0-60mph in 4.0-4.1 seconds virtually every time (with Euro MDM and Michelin PS4S tires) and stabbing the throttle. With the tunes it was impossible to get these results. Mid 4's was the best I could get and that also bothered me a little. So I went back to stock.

[jp1984]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

I just wanted a 8600 fuel cut to be honest and didnt care about the power increase . I can mix some e85 with pump 91 and likely I can see 114-115 traps on the stock ECU but haven't tried as it doesn't matter much to me.

I paired the Alpine tune with the GTS DCT tune. I didnt like the drivability at low speeds and stop and go driving. Also, optimal launches were not achievable. Stock, I can rip 0-60mph in 4.0-4.1 seconds virtually every time (with Euro MDM and Michelin PS4S tires) and stabbing the throttle. With the tunes it was impossible to get these results. Mid 4's was the best I could get and that also bothered me a little. So I went back to stock.

This is easier than you may think!

Have you considered ECUWorx to tune your own mss60? That is what I did, It is really easy and it gives you total access to all the tuner options like CEL monitoring, SAP Delete, top speed delete, even lets you cap red lines based on engine temp.

It also lets you raise each gears redline AND (this is for the real pros) change out your rear diff ratio (though I wouldn't mess with that).

It sounds like that could be an option for ya. It is like a .5 tune. Plus you don't have to worry about unknown safety protocols being overwritten and left to chance. I think it was about $80 and the look at my wife's face when I told her I was "making a back up" of my car, so if I break it I can save it, was classic. Those writes make me lose hair each time.

[nah dude]

^^^ Tuners HATE this guy!!!!

[Z K]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

Hey Z K, another tuning option is Dinan.

The tune adds 9hp @6000rpm and 8tq @6000rpm, but also really smoothens out the torque/power curve. Increases throttle response. Removes top speed governor, and raises redline from stock 8,400rpm to 8,600rpm.

It's very noticeable, it transforms the driving experience. I highly recommend it.

It may not be as aggressive as the other tunes out here, but it's designed to be super safe for your engine (as Dinan is the only mod/tune company that does not void the BMW warranty), and is emissions legal in all 50 states, so you can easily pass smog.

It's only $199, and you can get it uploaded at any BMW dealership.

… or $299 if you opt to also include the Dinan cable to be able to upload it yourself anytime with a laptop.

I opted to include the cable. The tune gets emailed to you directly from Dinan. You can borrow my Dinan cable if you decide to get it, and save yourself $100. It's super easy to do.


Here are the links to both options:

W/out OBD cable:

https://www.dinancars.com/products/s...parts/D900-40M


W/ OBD cable:

https://www.dinancars.com/products/s...s/D900-40M-KIT


Btw Dinan also has a DCT tune, which I heard is phenomenal, but I have a 6MT.

I considered the Dinan. Thanks for offering to use your cable. I would probably have taken your offer if I hadn't gotten my 241E update.

As I said, I went the OEM route and flashed it myself. My cost is about $200 for the cable/charger etc. and some hours of research and testing to get it working. I figure I can code other stuff as well with the equipment rather than just purchase an engine tune. Looking into a CIC retrofit and adding some other features as well now.

Going from my original 80E to a 240/241E factory tune really changed the car. Low and mid rpm is much more responsive, smooth and the car is easier to drive. Even my idle is smoother without rpm dips.

I'm sure Dinan is fine but OEM is the safest as it has to work in all conditions for all cars. I'm on track every other month so I'm not looking for max power - I want max reliability.

[alfalfa]

Originally Posted by jp1984

This is easier than you may think!

Have you considered ECUWorx to tune your own mss60? That is what I did, It is really easy and it gives you total access to all the tuner options like CEL monitoring, SAP Delete, top speed delete, even lets you cap red lines based on engine temp.

It also lets you raise each gears redline AND (this is for the real pros) change out your rear diff ratio (though I wouldn't mess with that).

The rear diff ratio and everything what is related to this can´t be changed in the engine ecu software there. Its always adapting and you can read the adaptations and see the actual output.
So if you change the ratio with different rear diff hardware the ecu knows this pretty fast itself.

[SilverSlug]

Ah gotcha, make sense.

And ya the reason I went with Dinan (a few years back) was because it was deemed to be the safest for our engines (not to say other tunes are dangerous), but it was designed with that in mind.

It came in a Stage 1, 2 or 3… Depending on what other (now sadly discontinued) Dinan goodies you also bolted on. Dinan offered a lightened flywheel, different LSD's (3.10, 3.45 or 3.62), etc.

I was considering upgrading to another more aggressive tune now, but will likely just stay with the Dinan one I have, given that I live in California, and smog stations out here now scan for tunes (Dinan can still pass).

Meanwhile some of the other tunes apparently don't get the O2 sensors ready, so impossible to smog in any state (from my understanding).

You didn't happen to dyno your car before/after the tune, did you?

[BPMSport]

We have retuned probably over 250 DINAN tuned cars, including a bunch of stroker motors, S65 and S85. We just tuned a 4.6 Stoker with an ESS blower a few days ago for a customer that recently acquired the car. He didn't even know it had a stroker, and the seller of the car didn't know it did either - Talk about a pleasant surprise!

Every single person that has switched has had nothing but glowing feedback. Dinan actually downgrades your software to an older version, so if you went in with 240E, you'll get the car back with something older

If you're thinking of going that route, i promise you that there is a much better option - here are some threads (some from a decade ago) that touch on the subject:

My experience moving from a Dinan's "Racing" to BPM Sport tune:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=825012

BPM Tune 1, Dinan Tune 0:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=780338

BPMSport tune + DCT ... before, after, before, after:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1323513

Dinan, Emissions Inspections and BPM Tune:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1429930

Switching from Dinan to BPM:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1579174

BPMSport Cable, Software, and Tune Review:
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=816790

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...-bpmsport.html

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=15169385

You often get what you pay for, and a "deal" often doesn't turn out to be in the end. It pains me how many people line up for a $500 tune and think they are getting a bargain when in actuality they are buying software that underwent little to no actual development. But these "tuners" love selling you on burbles and flames, and could care less about in depth technical reasons for why things are calibrated a certain way. Some haven't used a dyno or even have any technical data on their software but this doesn't stop customers from throwing money at them to save an insignificant amount compared to their 10-20K engine. With regard to safety, I would say that our software is actually safer than other software out there as we have enhanced the built in protections for rising temperatures and do not modify critical protection systems.

Many offer features that we pioneered - in a sense copying is the best form of flattery. The implementation of some of these features is lackluster at best. Then some tuners offer E85 mix files which shows a lack of understanding of the fundamentals of an adaptive ECU. They tell customers its ok just switch fuels while and go through multiple iterations of software with no logical understanding of what's going on as subsequent revisions correct for "corrections" the ECU is performing. Its a free for all.. and people wonder why they have drivability issues…

I think we are likely one of the only tuners that don't touch the pedal response map. We don't needlessly modify maps like this to make the car falsely feel faster, in actuality it makes the car more jittery, and less controllable.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink

[Z K]

Originally Posted by BPMSport

You often get what you pay for, and a "deal" often doesn't turn out to be in the end. It pains me how many people line up for a $500 tune and think they are getting a bargain when in actuality they are buying software that underwent little to no actual development. But these "tuners" love selling you on burbles and flames, and could care less about in depth technical reasons for why things are calibrated a certain way. Some haven't used a dyno or even have any technical data on their software but this doesn't stop customers from throwing money at them to save an insignificant amount compared to their 10-20K engine. With regard to safety, I would say that our software is actually safer than other software out there as we have enhanced the built in protections for rising temperatures and do not modify critical protection systems.

Many offer features that we pioneered - in a sense copying is the best form of flattery. The implementation of some of these features is lackluster at best. Then some tuners offer E85 mix files which shows a lack of understanding of the fundamentals of an adaptive ECU. They tell customers its ok just switch fuels while and go through multiple iterations of software with no logical understanding of what's going on as subsequent revisions correct for "corrections" the ECU is performing. Its a free for all.. and people wonder why they have drivability issues…

I think we are likely one of the only tuners that don't touch the pedal response map. We don't needlessly modify maps like this to make the car falsely feel faster, in actuality it makes the car more jittery, and less controllable.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink

Having owned many cars in the past and having nearly all of them tuned in some way or other, I've been through many tuners. It's enough that I just don't want to deal with tuners. I've had terrible experiences including a "custom dyno tune" from a well known Japanese tuner who a shop flew to the USA from Japan to tune cars. It was a complete re-map using a standalone ECU with no base map. That looked good on paper but blew up my tuned SR20DET engine when I drove on the highway.

I have had flash tunes from Road Race Enginnering, Dinan, APR, Revo, COBB, 034 motorsports, Bootmod3 and GIAC on my various cars. Each of them make more power but none of them ran as an OEM car runs. Always some kind of weirdness or quirk.

Here's a few recent issues I've had with tuning on my turbocharged cars:

My APR tune on my VW made so much power, the transmission would not shift due to torque limits being exceeded. A transmission flash fixed that but then it shifted so hard and rough, it was hard to drive. My Dinan tune was a plug in box on my BMW F30. That worked ok at first but the DME learned around it and threw check engine lights because of the modified sensor readings it was sending. A Audi Revo tune was a throttle on off switch and never felt right - I returned it a few days after install. They were able to flash me back to stock and refund me. GIAC in SoCal had some issues for my car but Garrett worked with me to produce a custom flash for my car on the dyno requiring multiple flashes and testing. Bootmod3, the off the shelf tune had issues on CA 91 octane, I had to do multiple logs and they sent a custom detuned file for me.

I have never had a smooth experience with any aftermarket tuner. Oh, and of course none of these tunes will pass CA smog now.

[jp1984]

Originally Posted by Z K

Having owned many cars in the past and having nearly all of them tuned in some way or other, I've been through many tuners. It's enough that I just don't want to deal with tuners. I've had terrible experiences including a "custom dyno tune" from a well known Japanese tuner who a shop flew to the USA from Japan to tune cars. It was a complete re-map using a standalone ECU with no base map. That looked good on paper but blew up my tuned SR20DET engine when I drove on the highway.

I have had flash tunes from Road Race Enginnering, Dinan, APR, Revo, COBB, 034 motorsports, Bootmod3 and GIAC on my various cars. Each of them make more power but none of them ran as an OEM car runs. Always some kind of weirdness or quirk.

Here's a few recent issues I've had with tuning on my turbocharged cars:

My APR tune on my VW made so much power, the transmission would not shift due to torque limits being exceeded. A transmission flash fixed that but then it shifted so hard and rough, it was hard to drive. My Dinan tune was a plug in box on my BMW F30. That worked ok at first but the DME learned around it and threw check engine lights because of the modified sensor readings it was sending. A Audi Revo tune was a throttle on off switch and never felt right - I returned it a few days after install. They were able to flash me back to stock and refund me. GIAC in SoCal had some issues for my car but Garrett worked with me to produce a custom flash for my car on the dyno requiring multiple flashes and testing. Bootmod3, the off the shelf tune had issues on CA 91 octane, I had to do multiple logs and they sent a custom detuned file for me.

I have never had a smooth experience with any aftermarket tuner. Oh, and of course none of these tunes will pass CA smog now.

Try Epic or ESS.

[SilverSlug]

I passed smog with a Dinan tune a couple months ago.

[SilverSlug]

I'm curious how the BMW 241E tune stacks up to the Dinan tune… tempted to Dyno each on the same day and compare the torque curves.

[jp1984]

241E isn't a tune it is just the latest software version. From what I understand you are better off on 240E anyways - maybe Mike can explain why.

The Dinan tune probably added a few HP but I bet you are still looking at 340 to the wheels at best if that is all you have installed.

If you want NA horse power, you need a really good tune and either an x pipe or test pipes.

If you dont mind FI just supercharge the car. Though in my opinion there is something sing songy about a high reving NA motor. Even if some entry level cars could dust it in the 1/4. thats not what I am here for.

[SilverSlug]

I spoke to a tech at Dinan yesterday about this, an he said that 240E/241E are indeed tunes, which would indeed overwrite the Dinan tune.

I was going to call a BMW to find out for sure, I'll follow up with what they say on this as well.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

I spoke to a tech at Dinan yesterday about this, an he said that 240E/241E are indeed tunes, which would indeed overwrite the Dinan tune.

I was going to call a BMW to find out for sure, I'll follow up with what they say on this as well.

Of course it'll overwrite it. There is only 1 program for the engine at any time. 240E is OEM. Dinan is an aftermarket. Only 1 can exist on the car at a time.

I don't understand what you are getting at here?

[Gossypiboma]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

I spoke to a tech at Dinan yesterday about this, an he said that 240E/241E are indeed tunes, which would indeed overwrite the Dinan tune.

I was going to call a BMW to find out for sure, I'll follow up with what they say on this as well.

What jp1984 meant was 240/241 is not a tune in the aftermarket sense, but yes of course if BMW updated your DME it would overwrite the Dinan tune.

[tom @ eas]

Originally Posted by SilverSlug

I spoke to a tech at Dinan yesterday about this, an he said that 240E/241E are indeed tunes, which would indeed overwrite the Dinan tune.

I was going to call a BMW to find out for sure, I'll follow up with what they say on this as well.

240E/241E are not "tunes", they are software versions of a stock BMW file.

[DRLane]

Wow, keeps getting more exciting!

[SilverSlug]

That's the way I understood it too, but I've heard some people say that updating to 2410/241E is just updating the "underlying software", not the actual tune.