Where does the the S65 stack up on your list of favorite high performance engines?

[ruff]

In general, I would define a great engine on account of how close it is to the motors race proven by the manufactures in series such as ALMS. Secondly, by rev ability and high red line. Third, and maybe most importantly, the siren song it sings.

First on my list would be Ferrari's flat plane crank in the F4xx. Go to a race and listen to the Ferraris, their operatic staccato scream is beyond description. Want to know why they are expensive? That is why.

A close second is the Mezger GT1 boxer six with a race proven pedigree and titillating wail. The sound of the flat six is so addictive, the only cure is the law putting a stop to all the madness.

I would place the Z06's pushrod LS7 just ahead of S65, due to it's high performance to efficiency quotient and mountains of torque. The Chevy small block has has a menacing growl all its own and a history beyond reproach.

The new kid on the block, the S65 is a gem and my next favorite. Blessed with a stratospheric red line, great sound, reasonable price and comes with a four door option. The S65 is under appreciated and is going to be highly valued by enthusiasts in the not to distant future. The M3 also happens to be BMW's most reliable model. IMO, The S65 is the best production motor BMW has ever produced. Hard to believe BMW is already considering retiring such an amazing piece of engineering brilliance.

The future is exciting. The McLaren MP4-12C is a good reason to be excited. It posses a mid mounted 3.8 litre twin turbo with approximately 592 hp and 443 lb-ft of torque and a 8,500 rpm redline. It will be interesting to see if Porsche can step up to the plate with the "spectacular" concept debut at Detroit.

[AMPowerJ]

Nice post.

[needspeed]

I really like highly strung NA engines that need to be redlined to get the full Monty. So far based on what I own/have owned:

1: F430 - Speed to redline is as fast as a super bike and the sound has no equal except for another F-Car. Flat crank is the bomb with very short exhaust path.

2: 05 Acura NSX - The most advanced engine/car of its time and with after market exhaust, intoxicating.

3: 03 SVT Cobra with x-pipe and exhaust – it would scare the crap out of people and was really fast

4: 1980 Air cooled 911SC is magic and such unique pure music

5: M3 S65 - an amazing motor and would have scored much higher for me had I changed the stock exhaust. So really not fair to rate this low.

6: X5 M - is a great FI motor with a ton of grunt. Just needs exhaust to bring out its anger

5: Acura RSX-S what a fun 4 banger that revs like mad and loves to be thrashed.

Not yet owned, but great motors/cars:

Lamborghini Gallardo a masterpiece, can’t argue with that 10 cylinder NA beast

The Porsche GT3 997 another unique NA masterpiece

There are so many……….Steve

[aus]

No love for the Mclaren F1 V12?
It was WAY ahead of it's time. No other engine that big was able to make more than 100hp/L at that time.

[Radiation Joe]

In order of preference:

Ferrari flat plane v8s (for reasons stated above)
Ducati Desmo (no explanation necessary)
Mazda rotaries (painful sound, awesome power/weight)
BMW S54 (would be higher if it weighed less)
BMW S14 (my favorite indestructable 4 banger)
Chevy LS7 (I'm a sucker for efficiency)
Offenhauser 4 banger (out of due respect)

S65 doesn't belong on the list as can be gleaned from the S65 vs S54 thread. It's a good engine, but not a great engine.

[Kyoshi71]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

S65 doesn't belong on the list as can be gleaned from the S65 vs S54 thread. It's a good engine, but not a great engine.

An engine should also have a history more than 4 years in order to be considered great.

The small-block Chevy is legendary.

[Gearhead999s]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

In order of preference:

Ferrari flat plane v8s (for reasons stated above)
Ducati Desmo (no explanation necessary)
Mazda rotaries (painful sound, awesome power/weight)
BMW S54 (would be higher if it weighed less)
BMW S14 (my favorite indestructable 4 banger)
Chevy LS7 (I'm a sucker for efficiency)
Offenhauser 4 banger (out of due respect)

S65 doesn't belong on the list as can be gleaned from the S65 vs S54 thread. It's a good engine, but not a great engine.

Which Desmo's?Bevel drive twins or singles.916 era or 998 or Desmodici

[mkoesel]

It falls somewhere below this:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/18/v...rtet-of-clips/

And this:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/05/03/v...es-for-a-spin/

And somewhere above this:

http://jagengines.com/

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by Gearhead999s

Which Desmo's?Bevel drive twins or singles.916 era or 998 or Desmodici

Desmodici

I'm not that much of a duc-head to know the differences. Always wanted one of the old singles. I'm happy with the sound of the 900ss. The modern engines are practical engineering successes due to the drastically reduced maintenance. So I guess those would be my pick.

Engineering isn't 100% engine output driven. The engines have to be able to live and be maintained. It's a balance.

[Rshane]

Ferrari 599GTO! Listen to the sound on YouTube.

[romanvn106]

I think that the m5 sounds crazy

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by shift@red

As far as Porsche stepping up, they already have with a car that is more beautiful than any McLaren, Ferrari, or Lambo and will outperform them all too. 6.2 liter v8 that revs to 10,300 RPMs is def tops in my book at the moment.

I have to say that that engine puzzles me. It has the same displacement as the V8 in the SLS AMG and makes the exact same power as well. So I can't see any good reason it should need to rev to 10300 RPM vs. the 7200 RPM that the AMG does. Typically, you design an engine to operate at high RPM in an effort to make the most possible power from the available displacement. That's obviously not the case here. The only thing I can think of is that they wanted to be able to have upshifts land you ~3000 RPM higher in the rev band. I suppose the fact that it is used in a hybrid configuration might have something to do with it too, but it is not obvious how that would influence the gasoline engine's RPM.

[Looper]

Originally Posted by Radiation Joe

In order of preference:

Ferrari flat plane v8s (for reasons stated above)
Ducati Desmo (no explanation necessary)
Mazda rotaries (painful sound, awesome power/weight)
BMW S54 (would be higher if it weighed less)
BMW S14 (my favorite indestructable 4 banger)
Chevy LS7 (I'm a sucker for efficiency)
Offenhauser 4 banger (out of due respect)

S65 doesn't belong on the list as can be gleaned from the S65 vs S54 thread. It's a good engine, but not a great engine.

Nice list, old Mazda rotary's were a blast but we have forgotten a few American mills, the Ford 427 side oiler and who can forget the Chevy LT-1 350? Seems to me that Cosworth has designed and manufactured a few gems also....... "The new die-cast aluminum XXXX 2300 (engine) is a masterpiece of simplicity" anybody care to guess who's marketing this was and for what car? Hint possibly the worst motor of all times.......... and Joe your right this motor doesn't belong on the list, just because its a 12:1 motor and spins up like a blender doesnt mean its great, needs more torque, period!

[008]

Cars we've owned? Driven? Or just drooled over? Historical significance or enjoyed?
I really like this motor. For me it's right up there at the top of mass produced engines. My other favorite motor I've owned is the Viper V10. Polar opposites but so much fun in a different way. Of course mine was bored out with forged internals, head work, intake, exhaust, cams, etc. The last of the breed was amazing stock though.

The whole drivetrain of the CGT is a work of art. It feels like a turbine in its linearity and also screams at the top end. I really like V10s.

[Looper]

Originally Posted by 008

Cars we've owned? Driven? Or just drooled over? Historical significance or enjoyed?
I really like this motor. For me it's right up there at the top of mass produced engines. My other favorite motor I've owned is the Viper V10. Polar opposites but so much fun in a different way. Of course mine was bored out with forged internals, head work, intake, exhaust, cams, etc. The last of the breed was amazing stock though.

The whole drivetrain of the CGT is a work of art. It feels like a turbine in its linearity and also screams at the top end. I really like V10s.

Know what your saying been driving Benz Bi-Turbo's for quite a while and its an amazing piece of technology, hence my regard for torque........ Just dont let the warranty expire!

[aajami]

No love for the F20C at all? That little sucker was certainly the greatest engine I've ever had the pleasure of owning.

[Doctor J]

Originally Posted by aajami

No love for the F20C at all? That little sucker was certainly the greatest engine I've ever had the pleasure of owning.

I like the F20C

I own my two favs the B18C5 and the S65

Now I just need a six cylinder that revs to 8500 rpm to finish my stable

Hmmmm Porsche GT3 should go nicely in there

[///My5UV]

I love my S62 with plenty of torque, but a neighbor has the V10 M5 and it has that F1 sound to it... sweetness :-) My favorite motor is the one I'm holding at WOT!

[BKMK5]

My D16Z6 in my first car ever was AMAZING! jk

[swamp2]

I would say a good criterion to judge by is the width of the torque band (say over how what rpm range is torque within 85 or 90% of peak torque). This is very difficult to obtain and contributes to a sublimely linear power curve. In this category the S65 is near the very top of the heap.

[aus]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Now you're talking. For 2.5 years in the mid 1980's, I worked at Drake Engineering -- owner and maker of the Offenhauser "Offy" race engine -- and 26-time Indy-500 winner. I was told it was the first motor in history to make 1hp/ci, 2hp/ci, and 8hp/ci. Before John Drake retired (he died about 4 years ago), he sold all of the rights, patents, masks, molds, etc. from the Offy to Stewart Van Dyne. Stewart was a Drake employee, and chief motor builder when I worked there.

Stewart is building my low compression stroker/FI S65 motor. He should be starting on it very soon (next week?) -- as all of the parts are now ready for assembly.

On a recent visit, Stewart had at least 4 or 5 Offy's in for rebuild. One was a very rare Supercharged Offy -- I believe Stewart said only two of them were ever made. If I remember correctly, he was restoring this one for Parnelli Jones collection. It was fully assembled and almost ready to dyno when I saw it. I've got pictures of it...if anybody is interested.

How about a pic of all the parts you've assembled for you engine?
When's the write-up?

[Radiation Joe]

Originally Posted by Looper

Nice list, old Mazda rotary's were a blast but we have forgotten a few American mills, the Ford 427 side oiler and who can forget the Chevy LT-1 350? Seems to me that Cosworth has designed and manufactured a few gems also....... "The new die-cast aluminum XXXX 2300 (engine) is a masterpiece of simplicity" anybody care to guess who's marketing this was and for what car? Hint possibly the worst motor of all times.......... and Joe your right this motor doesn't belong on the list, just because its a 12:1 motor and spins up like a blender doesnt mean its great, needs more torque, period!

HAHA!!!!

Chevy Vega.

The Cosworth Ford DFV dominated racing for many years. Great engine.
The Cosworth Ford 1600 was another great four banger.