about EDC

[david1504]

so i've heard about the comp package and the ECP stuffs and planning to get a m3, the ECP, how do you know if a m3 has it? do you have to get the comp package? bc i see EDC buttons on every e92 i see. btw i saw this 2009 e92, any suggestions? it looked good for me, and am i missing something from the 2010-13 models if i get a 09 model? (except ZCP)

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...74073597&Log=0



and btw i also saw a MINI cooper s John Cooper Works Gp for sale, looks good, rare car, but is it a good value, is it fun? i hesitated bc it is FWD

[MikeD]

Get the mini

[jphughan]

Not sure why you have the graphic, but in terms of your questions, I assume when you typed ECP you mean EDC. EDC is a very nice thing to have if you won't be installing aftermarket suspension, but since I've never driven an M3 on stock suspension I can't comment on how MUCH nicer it is to have. I just like the fact that in Comfort mode the car is very civil during DD tasks, Normal is great for back roads and tracks with elevation changes, and Sport is a bit punishing on public roads but great for flat tracks. The reason you see the EDC button so often is because it was originally part of the Tech Package and later became part of the Competition Package, both of which were popular with buyers. It was also always available as a standalone option. But if you see the EDC button, the car has EDC. On a car with EDC and no ZCP, EDC's Normal and Comfort modes will be adaptive based on road conditions, but Sport is a static firmness setting. On a car with ZCP, all three EDC modes are adaptive.

2010 didn't add anything over 2009 except I think a center air vent on the dash, and I think HD Radio became standard. After that:

- 2011 introduced the LCI tail lights and the Competition Package
- 2011.5 added Combox (Y-cable no longer required for iPhone connectivity, Bluetooth audio streaming available, iPhones can display text messages display on iDrive), Mineral White exterior paint, and Auto Start/Stop. M Drive became standard, manual seats became available if you didn't order the Premium Package, and the packages themselves were rearranged and renamed.
- 2011.75 added BMW Apps
- 2012 reconfigured the options packages a bit, but no new options were added and nothing else became standard.
- 2013 changed nothing.

I've never driven a JCW, but my wife has an R56 Cooper S and yes it's a lot of fun. She doesn't even have the LSD. You definitely get more understeer with FWD, but there's something awesome about a small, fairly light, short wheelbase car with a turbo. It's not as much of a precision driving experience, but I definitely enjoy driving her car now and then, especially as a contrast with my M3. However, the build quality is definitely not up to BMW standards (expect creaks, rattles, and more road noise), and Minis aren't especially reliable. But if you're mainly interested in fun, a JCW would absolutely deliver. But don't write the car off just because it's FWD. A lot of great fun, small cars these days are FWD.

[david1504]

thanks guys, sorry i dont know why i typed ecp, so is EDC the same as the EDC in ZCP in terms of overall using?(except i know EDC is changed a little in ZCP to get better performance, but that is only showing when professional drivers drive the car)
and is the only way to not have EDC to not have ZCP and tech package?

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by david1504

thanks guys, sorry i dont know why i typed ecp, so is EDC the same as the EDC in ZCP in terms of overall using?(except i know EDC is changed a little in ZCP to get better performance, but that is only showing when professional drivers drive the car)
and is the only way to not have EDC to not have ZCP and tech package?

I can't comment on how different the Sport mode feels in ZCP since I've never driven a ZCP car, but yes it works in essentially the same way. There's still an EDC button with 3 modes.

If the car has the Tech Package (2008-2010) or Competition Package (2011 onward), it has EDC. Even if the car does NOT have that package, it can still have EDC since EDC was also available as a standalone option. So the only way not to have EDC is if the car does not have that package OR the EDC option separately.

[AMG_LAWL]

EDC is not offered with all M3's. If my knowledge serves me correctly, EDC was only offered if you custom ordered your car through BMW and selected the "Electronic Dampening Control" or if you selected the "Competition Package". But, in late 2011, if you selected just the EDC package, BMW made you select the Comp Package. EDC is definitely something I would get in all my M3's, I wouldn't drive without it since I'm big on driving in the canyons. The stock suspension is "alright" kind of like driving a 135i, which is sufficient but you won't be able to "push the envelope" with stock suspension..

[Rupes]

Originally Posted by AMG_LAWL

The stock suspension is "alright" kind of like driving a 135i, which is sufficient but you won't be able to "push the envelope" with stock suspension..

I disagree with this. The stock suspension is between sport and sport plus, and is fantastic in spirited / track driving. Where you (may) miss out is in the everyday slow speed driving. It's a bit bouncy without a comfort mode.

[Ezio]

My m3 has EDC i think its a pretty nice thing. in the most aggressive setting its to rough at times for the road.

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by AMG_LAWL

EDC is not offered with all M3's. If my knowledge serves me correctly, EDC was only offered if you custom ordered your car through BMW and selected the "Electronic Dampening Control" or if you selected the "Competition Package". But, in late 2011, if you selected just the EDC package, BMW made you select the Comp Package.

This is incorrect; see my above posts. There was never an "EDC Package". It was always offered both as part of a different package and also available standalone -- and ordering it standalone never forced you to get any other options or packages as a result.

[david1504]

thanks for the replies, now i know more about the EDC. so are non ZCP cars easier to slide（i saw ZCP has a setting to correct slides??) and as i am looking to get a 09 model, does anyone know what are some minor changes BMW made on m3s over the years? (such as i saw one thread saying 11 model has more road noise than 13 model so they may changed the padding, I am more about mechanics, i dont care about those features like ipod adapter that much)

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by david1504

thanks for the replies, now i know more about the EDC. so are non ZCP cars easier to slide（i saw ZCP has a setting to correct slides??) and as i am looking to get a 09 model, does anyone know what are some minor changes BMW made on m3s over the years? (such as i saw one thread saying 11 model has more road noise than 13 model so they may changed the padding, I am more about mechanics, i dont care about those features like ipod adapter that much)

All M3s and lots of other cars have a mechanism to limit and correct slide; on BMWs it's called DSC. There's also MDM, which is a special mode of DSC that allows a bit more slide and rotation than keeping DSC fully on. And then all M3s allow you to turn DSC completely off, at which point you're on your own, so you better know what you're doing. The ZCP version of MDM allows a bit more slide than the non-ZCP, but both cars can be coded for Euro MDM, which allows more slide than any of the others.

I can't help you on model year changes at the level you're talking about. I highly doubt that information at that level you might find would be completely reliable though.

[slicer]

I purposely ordered my car without EDC, without ZCP, and with 18" wheels because I planned to install coil-overs and new wheels. EDC becomes a hassle with coil-over installs because you will have an error on your dash unless you get EDC coded out or install EDC-delete modules. Plus you are left with a useless button on the dash. My first M3 had EDC and I don't see it as a must-have option even you don't plan to get coil-overs. That being said, the ZCP package is nice for those who don't intend to modify the car. The wheels are my favorite of those offered OEM and the car is 12mm lower.

[templarklimek]

I've owned 2 S65 M3's and a mini JCW coupe tuned.

Very different cars!

M3 is a true brute but refined sports borne of purpose and the last M masterpiece(imho).

The mini was a BLAST to drive, I could zip in and out of traffic laughing the whole time as it was like a fiesty little dog trying to start fights with a big dog.

get both! but if only one go with the M3.

[david1504]

after thinking for a while, i am still struggling if ZCP is a good choice to have, if any ZCP owners can give some reviews that would be great(do you scrape the car bc the lower 1cm? how does the EDC feel different?) i dont want to start a thread about ZCP debate again as i have seen plenty, a few honest advice will be appreciated though. and for people who have driven both pre and after 2010 models, is there any performance difference?

thanks in advance

[jphughan]

Originally Posted by david1504

after thinking for a while, i am still struggling if ZCP is a good choice to have, if any ZCP owners can give some reviews that would be great(do you scrape the car bc the lower 1cm? how does the EDC feel different?) i dont want to start a thread about ZCP debate again as i have seen plenty, a few honest advice will be appreciated though. and for people who have driven both pre and after 2010 models, is there any performance difference?

thanks in advance

Just to set expectations, very few people will have driven ZCP and non-ZCP back to back, and even fewer people will have had the location or driver skill to really explore the differences, particularly the EDC difference you're interested in. And even if they had all that, two different cars are two different cars, so other factors could have influenced the test. But the only EDC difference is the Sport mode, which I personally find too punishing to run on the road anyway because I'm getting a harsher ride in a context that doesn't allow me to take advantage of the handling improvements, so what's the point? At a flat track, sure ZCP's adaptive Sport may be better than my non-adaptive. Will you be going to the track? I hope so if you're buying an M3, but if not, then I don't think the EDC difference will matter to you. Normal is great for back roads -- plants the car better than Comfort without punishing you.

There were no performance changes anywhere in the M3's lifecycle. Any observed differences (assuming no aftermarket modifications) would be due to natural manufacturing variations at the factory, different owner maintenance/driving habits, or (more likely) newer ECU software. The 240E software update is reported to make older cars feel more powerful, but that can be installed on any M3. But it wasn't installed at the factory until somewhere in the 2012 model year, I believe.

At the end of the day if ZCP is important to you, get it. If it's not, the difference won't be night and day. Most people who get ZCP do it because they like the wheels, lowered stance, and/or resale value. I haven't seen any complaints of ZCP cars scraping more though. A 10mm drop is pretty tame.

[modkrazy]

Originally Posted by david1504

thanks guys, sorry i dont know why i typed ecp, so is EDC the same as the EDC in ZCP in terms of overall using?(except i know EDC is changed a little in ZCP to get better performance, but that is only showing when professional drivers drive the car)
and is the only way to not have EDC to not have ZCP and tech package?

Whether the ZCP EDC has "better performance" is questionable since the best numbers that were squeezed out of the M3 were in comfort and/or normal settings. Sport mode is basically useless unless your local roads are smooth as glass. Hop hop hop. Maybe the adaptive settings of ZCP make sport more usable outside of a Nascar oval?