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03-06-2008, 12:42 PM | #23 |
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Well as a proud owner of a late model specially made Mercedes AMG that has the manual mode and paddle shifters and also an E92 M3 with a few improvements but is a 6MT, I can truly say that although I enjoy the flexibility of the 6MT (such as, easier to remember what gear you are in by simply putting your hand down – this is much more evident in track use – , pumping it with the clutch inn to listen to the great sound, doing the difficult heal-and-toe maneuver – if not done perfectly the auto is much, much better in positioning the car when entering curbs –), the auto in Manual mode is much more efficient, easier to drive, and, yes, FUN to use as well, just a bit different!!!
As a side bar, It would be really nice if the DCT (or AMG Speedshift for that matter) has the F430 (or even 360) function where you pull both paddle shifters back at the same time – does no matter what speed – and neutral will engage so that you can pump the throttle and listen to the music and that fabulous gurgling sound. If you hit any of the two paddle shifters, down or up, the car will automatically go into the best gear (up or down) at that speed. Amazing transmission!! Maybe the CLS!!!!!
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03-06-2008, 12:45 PM | #24 |
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By the way, if the E92 M3 would have been available with the M-DKT when I got mine, I would have most definitely gotten that one. They just didn’t have it and I wasn’t about to wait another 6 months at least before I got my hands on the M3.
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03-06-2008, 12:48 PM | #25 | |
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I understand that the internals are vastly different, but the fact of the matter is that you're pushing a button to change gears, different internals or not. I'm not worried about how smooth it shifts, or that it shifts in .00000000000000001 of a second, it's the fact that a machine is doing the shifting for me is what turns me off.
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03-06-2008, 01:12 PM | #26 | |
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03-06-2008, 02:47 PM | #27 | |
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The difference between an auto and manual is the control the driver retains. In a manual the engine is fully locked to the rear wheels when the car is in gear and the car doesn't change gears on its own. The driver controls the changes. By that definition DCT is a manual no different than a 6mt. BTW: you do have control over clutch engagement for anything you should be doing as a driver. Please explain how shifting gears with a lever and two peddals is "connecting you to the car"? You are just doing extra work to acomplish the same thing less effectivly. (make the car to change gears)
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03-06-2008, 02:50 PM | #28 | |
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Big thanks. That is precisely what I worry about happening. I don't really want an auto and the problems you noticed are the ones that happen in the IS. I don't think faster shifts would change some of those issues. |
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03-06-2008, 03:02 PM | #29 | |
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03-06-2008, 03:15 PM | #30 |
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Oh, I don't know....how about slipping the clutch on a hill to make 1st gear a little smoother? Or any other time you need to control the clutch engagement for a smoother ride? I'm sure DCT will be better than SMG, but I can't count the number of time's I've read of people saying how jerky SMG is in sport mode and in auto mode and how it has trouble engaging under light throttle. All of that can be corrected with a 3rd pedal.
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03-06-2008, 03:18 PM | #31 | |
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I can do everything you just described in my E46 smg car. The thing I love about SMG is it frees up my left foot to use the brakes.
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03-06-2008, 03:29 PM | #32 |
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I too have always driven manuals. But i am considering DCT. I didn't like the SMG.... In city driving like mine it can get tough driving an M3. The clucth is must stiffer that non M BMW's.... Not sure if i will like it but.....
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03-06-2008, 03:44 PM | #33 |
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As someone who has not driven an SMG/DCT car, can someone please answer this question.
In traffic I sometimes use 1st gear to accelerate to around 60-70kph at around 8,000rpm then let the car coast (to avoid losing my license) and select 4th @ 60kph. Is this fairly easy to do using an SMG? I understand you cannot skip gears in SMG/DCT. How long do you think DCT will take to go from 1st to 4th rapidly?
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03-06-2008, 04:15 PM | #35 | |
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I am not here to sway people away from DCT it is more a case of providing an opinion from experience of such a system. If you are in doubt that you will enjoy it because you have a problem with the interaction experience from using paddles then truth me the system isn't for you. And this goes for everyone, not just gblansten. Swamp and some of the other feel I have a downer on the technology but that is clearly not the case. The technology is miles better than any so-called proper automatic gearbox or any other non-dual clutch semi-auto. But the bottom line is the it's so seamless with it's changes that you end up using it more and more often in full auto mode, in this it differs completely when SMG, it's auto modes are a compromise compared to a proper automatic and most people I have spoke to don't find these modes accomplished enough to be regarded an alternative to using it in manual mode. If DCT is as good as I believe it will be in auto mode then most people will end up using these modes exclusively and only really using the manual modes on the track or very occasionally. Like I already said before which swamp must have missed, if you feel that you can accept this and don't crave the interaction you get from a true manual then be all means pick the DCT and enjoy, otherwise look else where. |
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03-06-2008, 04:35 PM | #37 | |
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I have a S2000 with my shorter gears and it feels about 10% quicker (who knows maybe 6% quicker or whatever) but I can feel the difference and it's not nothing. The problem with my S2000 is that with the gears it's still the same 6-MT so doing 80 MPH I'm at close to 5000 RPMs. But the M3 tranny effectivly gives you the benifit of shorter 1-6 but then gives you an extra gear so you can have the best of both (gearing and lower rpms on the HW). Now, I do not know, probably the M Double-clutch Transmission is LESS FUN than the MT version, but probably is quicker and much easier to get a good launch. Also, I drove a GTI (test drive) with the DSG, that only is a 6-speed but the great thing (at least if you had it in auto-mode) you could be on the HW doing 60 (or whatever) in 6th gear but put your foot into it and it would jump down to 2nd or 3rd gear and be right at the power peak as fast as the engine could get there. It really can make a beast out of a AT (type car) where you would be hard pressed with a MT shift down the gear that would put you at the power peak. I mean say you have a 6-MT and you are on the HW and you are doing 60 mph and you want to accelerate as fast as possible, you are not going to shift down to 2nd or 3rd gear (no way) too chancy you can't figure where you will be on the revs so you shift to 5th or maybe 4th and you're only at 5000 rpm (long way to the power peak). Another thing at least the VW was great at shifting down like in an instant. Many AT cars I have driven shift at redline OK (I mean shift up fine) but when you want a downshift sometimes there is a half second pause while it figures out what to do and does it, at leas the GTI the downshifts were almost as quick as the up shifts (it seemed) and still very smooth. I plan to keep my S2000 so I will have a MT car to fall back on for the fun fix, but if the M Double-clutch Transmission turns out as good as I think it will be very fun all the same. I am a little worried about the new-ness of the tranny as opposed to a manual which cave men are used to driving probably the MT is less of a problem waiting to happen. |
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03-06-2008, 05:01 PM | #38 |
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Haven´t tried this, maybe it does work!!!!
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03-06-2008, 05:06 PM | #40 |
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03-06-2008, 05:12 PM | #42 |
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It wasn't a sarcastic laugh I really was laughing
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03-06-2008, 05:12 PM | #43 |
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I like to shift, think it's fun especially with this 8400 rpms to play with. I don't think I'd like a car that's got gobs of TQ everywhere you could just mash the gas. So I think the M3 is great either, probably the double-clutch Transmission would be a little more dull (I mean less work/fun) quicker but less involving. |
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03-06-2008, 05:17 PM | #44 |
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Those crack me up. It looks like the M-DCT one is holding on for dear life en route to a sub 4 sec 0-60 or something. I guess not though if he has to correct that much with the steering can't be getting too much traction.
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