(VID) I'm Boosted! Gintani Stage 2+ E92 M3 Supercharger In Action

[MikeG_C63_AMG]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Why dont you all meet in Mexico and see who is the last one standing? Who really cares who has the fastest/most powerful paper E9X M3 anyways really?

+1

Then go out for a nice cocktail!

[Bluechipper]

Comparing different dynos, different weather conditions, different cars, etc... is just stupid.


All that really matters is real life performance (60 - 130 mph):

8.82 - sammyrusso / E92 M3 DCT Gintani Stage 1 SC

7.76 - DLSJ5 / E92 M3 DCT Gintani Stage 2+ SC


End of story, F*CK the dyno bullsh*t.

[Jason]

Keep the extracurricular comments and snipes away from this thread or it WILL be deleted. Stop with the childish innuendos and accusations and keep your discussion constructive and technical in nature. Failure to do this will result in deletion and infraction.

Congrats to Drew on an absolute beast of a car


P.S. Mark and I are the only ones who select features for the homepage and we do it without influence or input from anyone. Whether we think it's newsworthy or not has nothing to do with any members' or mods' preference for a product or vendor, but only on our own interpretation of its appropriateness for the homepage.

[dlbrooks18]

nice Drew! can't wait till you get back up to Famoso for some 1/4 mile runs..

[ghosthi32]

seriously dont ruin this thread with nerdsheet bs.

congrats again. can't wait for more videos on the track!

[DevJ]

Originally Posted by ghosthi32

seriously dont ruin this thread with nerdsheet bs.

congrats again. can't wait for more videos on the track!

Subscribing for vids

[Eugene-TAIWAN]

Drew's car is a beast end of story!

I mean the guy is running with 4 cats on his car!!!

He has the encore x-pipe set up.

that is just crazy and I think that will also give him more kick off the start. Compared to a totally cattless set up.

here you are the man in Taiwan now! everyone in knows about your ViDs. And I showed it to some of the Magazine guys in Taiwan and there jaw just dropped. I was just laugh...

but again real world testing is more important then spread sheets if you ask me.

[duk]

what a big POS! horrible build up and it's still barely faster than a ZR1?? WACK!!!













I am being sarcastic btw, awesome awesome x 100 ride and congrats!!!

[niterider]

Originally Posted by duk

what a big POS! horrible build up and it's still barely faster than a ZR1?? WACK!!!







I am being sarcastic btw, awesome awesome x 100 ride and congrats!!!

[tazam3]

Honestly Ive known Drew for awhile and his freakish times have always surprised me. I think he is full of it and everyone should contest his numbers. Drew you suck.

Now im pretty frightened from your car Drew.

Also about the Vbox times compared to others, Drew knows how to get great times. He puts more effort then anyone I know, it will be hard for even a comparable car to beat his time.

[Irishace]

Absolutely fantastic ride you have, I friggen love it.

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

I'm not questioning anything -- I'm absolutely sick of these vendor wars. This isn't about Gintani vs. ESS -- this is about the people who are friends with each other and have each other's back -- and don't apply the same criticism to their friends as they apply to other people with competitor's products. This isn't even apples-to-oranges...this is just BS.

I have more dyno time than anybody else's E9x M3 on this forum or any other forum -- probably by a factor of 3-4 times. I've been on eight different dyno's. SAE 1349 correction exists to compensate for these exact differences Brian mentions. I've never seen more than a few SAE corrected whp difference on any same-brand dyno that I've ever been on -- even if it was months apart and in completely different weather conditions. 9whp is the most difference I ever saw -- and that was actually on the same dyno with the same tank of gas and only one week apart at the same exact hour of the day and almost identical weather conditions (within a few percent). All others were far closer than 9whp difference.

Jim Pack didn't accept my fitted boost curve to estimate final boost. By the same standard, he shouldn't accept Drew's either. Jim called my boost it's maximum value at maxHP -- regardless of my fitted curve. By that same standard, Drew would have 8.5-8.75 PSI boost. In my case, my boost fluxuated far more than Drew's, that's why I adopted the fitted curve approach. Drew's boost does not fluxuate as much as mine.

Regardless of which standard to chose (absolute max or fitted curve), the boost at maxHP must be taken into account. If your maxHP is 516 and occurs during the boost spike, then you must also factor in the boost spike to your maxBoost specifications. If you don't want to use the maxBoost, then you can't use the maxHP that occurs during the boost spike. My fitted curve DID take the spike into account, and it was still called bogus. Not a single person came to my defense -- most notably none of the same people now coming to Drew's defense. Regardless, there should only be one standard. Either use my fitted curve method -- in which case Drew would still have about 8.25 PSI boost, or use the absoulte max that Jim Pack prefers. It can't be apples for one and oranges for the other.

To bring this discussion to a close, I think Drew should do one of two things:
1) Make his dyno files available and I'll use the same curve fit to his boost graph as I did to mine.
2) Say what size pulley he's using because anybody who knows his blower will know exactly how much boost its making with that pulley.

Robert you make some great points there, but if you've been attacked, called names, doubted, criticized unfairly, etc. I can understand why you would feel the way you do as well, but it has gone both ways Bro. Regardless I agree with some of your points.


Let's take one graph from each session that yields the highest peak boost #'s. Mine 8.75, yours 7.15, both are above the claimed boost level.

On my dyno run, there is a spike near redline in the pband, not sure why, so you make a good point, taking that into account my actual Max WHP is a tad lower than 516 SAE, but the peak boost at that point is 7.7psi and your graph is at 7.15psi right were your peak WHP is, Graph 1.

Graph 1

Your max power is at 7.15 psi on this run, but you claim you were running 6.25-6.5psi, fair enough and were splitting hairs here as in other runs you were just a tad higher than 6.5 at peak power.



My peak WHP is 516, at that point I'm at 8.26 psi according to the dyno reading, this is after the spike in the pband curve and, "past" redline 8300rpm. At that point, in your graph the boost, AFR and power are no longer recorded, not sure why. Another indicator of the spike is the AFR's are beginning to indicate that the TB's are closing. Regardless, it's not 8.75 at my peak whp #, it's a tad over 8, fair enough, Graph 2.

Graph 2




Now here's the two lowest peak boost graphs in comparison same description as above, your boost curves here are different up top, there appears to be no spike, but you are only a tad above the claimed boost level.





For Biglare, or anyone else who is curious.

Look at the graph when it shows the peak boost. The motor has hit the rev limiter, past it at 8400 RPM's, the AFR's on the graph have completely spiked indicating that there's no fuel being injected into the motor. The the TB's are completely closed, and the boost pressure "spikes." Make sense now?




For those who care here's the speeds at which Robert and I dynoed.



Robert, there is info on these dyno files that no one else is privy too, but if you want me to show something else, just ask me and I will post it up, within certain parameters. Bring what to a close exactly? It's all there man! The only thing I see in the graphs is that your stroker/SC car makes GOBS more power, I'm not sure what else you want to show, lol.

Having said that I will redyno when I can, without all the info contained in these files and you can have all the fun you want with them, fair enough?

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by Jason

Keep the extracurricular comments and snipes away from this thread or it WILL be deleted. Stop with the childish innuendos and accusations and keep your discussion constructive and technical in nature. Failure to do this will result in deletion and infraction.

Congrats to Drew on an absolute beast of a car


P.S. Mark and I are the only ones who select features for the homepage and we do it without influence or input from anyone. Whether we think it's newsworthy or not has nothing to do with any members' or mods' preference for a product or vendor, but only on our own interpretation of its appropriateness for the homepage.

Thanks Jason!

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by duk

what a big POS! horrible build up and it's still barely faster than a ZR1?? WACK!!!













I am being sarcastic btw, awesome awesome x 100 ride and congrats!!!

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by dlbrooks18

nice Drew! can't wait till you get back up to Famoso for some 1/4 mile runs..

THanks man.

Originally Posted by tazam3

Honestly Ive known Drew for awhile and his freakish times have always surprised me. I think he is full of it and everyone should contest his numbers. Drew you suck.

Now im pretty frightened from your car Drew.

Also about the Vbox times compared to others, Drew knows how to get great times. He puts more effort then anyone I know, it will be hard for even a comparable car to beat his time.

haha, thanks V.

Originally Posted by Irishace

Absolutely fantastic ride you have, I friggen love it.

Thank you!

[biglare]

Wow, I make a couple of posts on my breaks and all heck breaks loose.

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

I answered your questions about the peak boost #. AS PT pointed out different dyno's as well, I have cats, Brian doesn't, DCT vs. 6MT DT loss, what gear did he dyno in, etc.?

As it has been stated earlier the car does not have aggressive tuning to take full advantage of the Meth, this was my choice, what you think has no bearing on it. I am running two small 175ml nozzles, it is used for additional cooling ONLY, because I wanted it.

Does 60-100 in 3.5s, 60-130 in 7.7s and a 130 trap make sense? Is that worth it to you? Larry, I just got the car, there's more to to do.

Thanks for the answer about the peak boost. I was not aware of such a difference and that it is "normal". Yes those are great times and I congratulate you, but no need to be a smart-a##. I'm glad to see E9x M3's getting faster and faster.

Originally Posted by niterider

+1 cant compare the dynos. I dynoed at a different place, different day. Many dynos at different shops are set up differently. Thats y the best way to get as consistant dynos as possible is to dyno at the same place, before and after mods.

As u can see, many other SC cars have dynoed higher then Drews car on a DynoJet as well, however the numbers Drew has 60-130 are faster then any of the e90/92 SC cars out right now. So the only possible answer for this would b A) other dyno numbers were false claims or B) is it just because of the different settings used on the dyno, different day etc...

Im gonna go with B. Just because I have seen this first hand. I seen how much of a difference a different dyno can make. Ive had my car have up to a 60whp difference with the same exact set up but just a different dyno.

OK, thanks for the response. I was not aware of such a difference between the same type dyno there in CA. Here in AZ I have not heard of such a large difference between the same type of dyno.

Originally Posted by niterider

And as far as the spike goes, this is mainly because on a dyno the car bounces off of rev limiter. I have seen hooked up cobras/corvettes with after market whipple blowers and Vortech blowers spike up to 2.5 psi higher then the running boost. However the Dyno will normally record the highest boost level which will always be the spike. If u actually monitor the boost when driving the car it will never get the boost levels as high as the spikes does on the dyno, well except if ur belt slips. Ive seen that happen too.

I saw the explanation about the spike earlier, but thanks again for the reply!

Originally Posted by niterider

Ok well first off, he is not running 8.75 psi, thats just a spike, he is at 7.5psi and the meth is JUST FOR COOLING. Second their is a lot of factors that come in to play with dynos. Again, the dyno settings as per the user, the exhaust set up, the transmission, the weather (which some dynos compensate for) again that depends on how the dyno is set up, the gear etc.

Im sure many people on the forums are aware of the dyno differences and how they affect numbers, it has been pretty beat to death. This is why I think comparo runs with other cars and V box numbers are a lot better to use when comparing vehicles. IMO of course. Hopes this helped

Thanks for the clarification again on the spike. I was only asking for some clarification and it was made. I also agree that comparo runs are great to see how the cars actually perform against one another.

Originally Posted by MspiredM3

Why are you using 8.75psi for Drew's car? Did you not read the many responses above about boost spike? Drew is at 7.5 psi. Did you just fail to comprehend the other things posted abotu different transmissions and possibly different gears? Didn't PG show how much of a difference dyno'ing in various gears can show?

I did not ask why he was running 8.75psi. Yes, I did see the many responses for the spike and that has been put to bed. No need to get on the defensive as I only wanted some clarification. Yes, I am aware of some of the differences in car setup and dyno setup, but the difference between the two dyno runs I mentioned just did not seem right. I just expected more of a difference between two gintani cars and one with more boost and also running water/meth, that is all. This would then help give me an idea of how much more power the car with 7.5psi water/meth is making when compared to the 5psi car. That is it.

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Larry is only applying the same standard you guys demanded on my dyno charts just two weeks ago. I will be addressing this in further details in a few minutes.

I was just trying to figure out how much more power the car with 7.5psi water/meth is making than the car with 5psi. I thought it would be more than 10whp, so that is why I asked the question. I was under the impression that the same type of dyno would show more of a difference, but I was incorrect as it has been explained in several posts in this thread.

Originally Posted by tightie

Is it hard to believe that he actually posted the information you wanted to hear and yet someone still finds a reason to complain? You keep saying Brian vs Drew. 6MT vs DCT (Different gearing, different dyno) So it's not apples and apples.*

Can I see your dyno sheet with boost, af/r, etc, blah blah? Drew has nothing to hide, his car is a beast. No corners were cut, everything was legit, he even used full 91 gas... He put his car to the test, he even went to the dyno that PG went to so you can't complain and say gintani cheated... Why is it SO hard to believe? *

No need to get so defensive. I am not complaining. I only wanted to try to find out the power difference between the two cars. I was trying to compare one gintani kit with 5psi and another with 7.5 water/meth that used the same type of dyno. That was it.

Originally Posted by MspiredM3

I'm sorry PG, but your situation was different. We were wondering how you made 40rwhp more with less than .5psi more boost. Which we later found out to be due to different gear dyno runs.

You guys are trying to compare different cars, on different dyno's, on different days, with different transmissions, probably different gear on the dyno run, and both cars have different supplemental mods.

I can see where you guys are getting confused why 2psi more only made 10rwhp, but all of the above needs to be taken into account.

Hell, even HPF cars, on the same dyno, will be as much as 30rwhp apart.

I was trying to find out he power difference with the two cars running 5psi vs. 7.5 psi water/meth. Thanks for understanding where I could be confused, but it is more clear now.

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

He is? Who demanded anything from your dyno charts Robert? You posted up dyno's without telling us what gear you used from each pulley! I'm not so sure the two correlate. But yes people have been extremely hard on you at times, and much of it has been unwarranted.

I'm not trying to be hard on anyone. I was only trying to determine the power difference between 5psi vs. 7.5psi water/meth. That is it.

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

Welcome to my life, and what I've lived for the last 1.5 years on this forum. Just look at the five pages of my most recent dyno charts with the boosted stroker if you missed it. I can't speak for Larry's motives because I haven't chatted, PM'd, or even emailed him...but since I've had to repeatedly answer these questions myself, it's only fair that Drew needs to answer them as well.

The only motive that I have was to find out the power difference between the car with 5psi and the car with 7.5psi water/meth. That was it. I expected more than 10whp and on the same type of dyno I thought it would show more. Now based on the several posts I understand that the same type of dyno can be up to 60whp different with same car. It just seems weird to me is all.

Originally Posted by Bluechipper

Honestly your the only one that doesn't understand.

Really, you think so? I appreciate your honesty and help!

Originally Posted by DLSJ5

Robert, my situation does not necessarily correlate with yours, I never predicted/claimed anything or even spoke about my car being SC'd until this post. Do you think Larry feels the need to continue to pursue it this way because of how you may have been treated in your dyno thread or because I choose to go with Gintani? Or is it for other reasons? Because he sure didn't ask about your peak boost being higher. It's interesting, another ESS guy "bigpuna" asked me simular questions, either I'm nuts or I see a pattern here. I appreciate you not choosing to go that route!

I think the questions asked by E92MMMTHREE were VERY fair as were biglare's initially and bigpuna, I've asked the same questions in the past. But do you not see here what Larry is attempting to do here? Though he will claim innocence, lol, I've seen it in other Gintani threads.

I think it's fair to ask why I dynoed less than stellar #'s with more boost and Meth compared to Brian and others, when I heard I was a bit underwhelmed, lol, but after I drove the car, saw the Vbox data on the 1st night I got the car, I was absolutely ecstatic!

Then when I saw the comparo runs with the M5 and 997tt, I knew the car was making the power, but just like you there's always more to do to go faster and make more power.

Listen I'm not these other guys, I'm not upset with you, do we disagree at times? Of course, but I flat out love what you are doing with your car and how you share it with us, that's all I'm trying to do here as well, but honestly these questions are not tough or harsh, lol, and to some the answers aren't satisfactory, fair enough of course there's legitimate questions that should be answered, but if people want to doubt your results or be negative most of the time, every forum has a few, I say f 'em.

Drew, all I was trying to find out is the power difference that your car made vs. one with only 5psi. It is as simple as that. There is no need to accuse or get defensive as I only wanted to find out the power difference and thought that I could compare two gintani cars on the same type of dyno. I am not disputing your times and actually congratulated you on them. Your runs are great and the video was too. I am glad to see more E9x M3's out there running faster and faster.

Originally Posted by Vic55

Why dont you all meet in Mexico and see who is the last one standing? Who really cares who has the fastest/most powerful paper E9X M3 anyways really?

Yes, that would be a blast!!!

Originally Posted by MikeG_C63_AMG

+1

Then go out for a nice cocktail!

+1

Originally Posted by Bluechipper

Comparing different dynos, different weather conditions, different cars, etc... is just stupid.


All that really matters is real life performance (60 - 130 mph):

8.82 - sammyrusso / E92 M3 DCT Gintani Stage 1 SC

8.31 - biglare / E90 M3 DCT ESS VT2-575

7.76 - DLSJ5 / E92 M3 DCT Gintani Stage 2+ SC


End of story, F*CK the dyno bullsh*t.

Originally Posted by Jason

Keep the extracurricular comments and snipes away from this thread or it WILL be deleted. Stop with the childish innuendos and accusations and keep your discussion constructive and technical in nature. Failure to do this will result in deletion and infraction.

I agree and was only trying to figure out a power difference based on facts that were available. I guess that is completely wrong based on all the heated replies and discussion. I was trying to use this forum for what I thought it was intended for.

Originally Posted by ghosthi32

seriously dont ruin this thread with nerdsheet bs.

congrats again. can't wait for more videos on the track!

+1

[inter1032]

nice

[Alex@Alpine]

Yup Yup

[TheKosherStogie]

hopefully drew and i can dyno at same shop same day soon and clear some stuff up for everyone.

Biglare i think people got upset cause after a few explanations of what boost drew is running...u wrote a couple times that he is running the 8.x lbs...seemed like u were doing it with intention.

and i think my vbox run of 8.82 should be NOTED I RAN IN 3RD GEAR CAUSE BALD TIRES!!!!!!

[JC919]

Well done Drew, I just ran across this thread and see the usual shenanigans are still around. The car is an absolute beast, congrats!!!

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by JC919

Well done Drew, I just ran across this thread and see the usual shenanigans are still around. The car is an absolute beast, congrats!!!

Thanks Brotha, and you were DEAD ON about the RE11's, love these tires!

[biglare]

Originally Posted by sammyrusso

hopefully drew and i can dyno at same shop same day soon and clear some stuff up for everyone.

Biglare i think people got upset cause after a few explanations of what boost drew is running...u wrote a couple times that he is running the 8.x lbs...seemed like u were doing it with intention.

and i think my vbox run of 8.82 should be NOTED I RAN IN 3RD GEAR CAUSE BALD TIRES!!!!!!

Sammy, I hear you about people getting upset. I ask for some clarification and people get all upset and defensive. I thought this forum was for exactly that? Oh well. I'm sure if you both run at the same dyno on the same day that would help, but based on some replies there are just too many variables to compare. So I'll just take it for what it is worth.

Yes, you posted some good times and I know that with another gear and some better wheels/tires you will go lower! Did you get your new 18" wheels/tires yet?

I appreciate your adult response and hopefully we can both get out there soon to lower our times! This is great to see some really fast E9x M3's out there!