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09-23-2007, 10:00 PM | #111 |
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Ruff, I am not sure that I am really understanding your "I am being objective" statement. I suppose you might very well be objective, but why does that have to mean that the rest of us aren't? Yeah, there might be a few exceptions, stray posts, here and there, but when you even things out, I think people are pretty objective on this forum overall when we really do start having a serious discussion. We certainly don't agree on many things, but I don't get the sense that people who post here on a regular basis are driven by badge loyalty. For me, it's just a car. Something you buy, enjoy, and sell. The only car that I owned that was more than that to me was my ’72 Karman Ghia; I can't take a brand new car too seriously in terms of it having character to the extent that I have some sort of subjective buy-in to it.
I have no issue with you jumping in on any debate I might be involved in, and challenging my opinion. That's what the forum is for. I only ask that if you do challenge my opinion, take the time to articulate why. I am rather neutral towards SportsAuto. It is just another information source for me. I don't believe that I attacked their credibility. However, I did say that there is variability in their measurements, which is a part of the game, and the times should be interpreted accordingly and not as absolute numbers. The tire discussion, on the other hand, is rather subjective depending on what one wants to get out of the laptimes. I, as a potential consumer, would like to see the C63, the RS4, and the M3 (and the GTR?) tested on the Ring on the same day by the same driver with the same tires back to back (I know it ain't gonna happen, but still...). That might inform me to a certain extent. I am not saying that would make me buy one car over the other, but it would inform me. I also would like to find out the absolute fastest time that can be achieved by these cars--with any driver, set of street tires, and weather conditions. That would help put things perspective. |
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09-23-2007, 10:24 PM | #112 |
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^ Does BMW actually report ring times they have achieved?
Closest I have heard of this is when the director of the M division said the new M3 is a few seconds faster than the M5 around the ring.
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09-23-2007, 10:37 PM | #113 |
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I don't know that they will ever come out and "officially" report a number for the M3, but I'd say that after thousands of instrumented laps with various drivers and conditions, they must have a very good idea about the fastest possible lap time, and that would leak out somehow eventually if not formally.
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09-23-2007, 10:44 PM | #114 |
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I guess I am asking because I dont think there is such a thing as official BMW lap times. All we get is hearsay and leaks...
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09-23-2007, 10:52 PM | #115 |
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True. I can imagine a scenario where magazine X publishes time Y, and M people are asked to comment on interviews and stuff, and someone finally saying something about it being slow or about right or something like that. I also bet that the M division has had a specific laptime in mind as an internal goal all along during development--as an engineering requirement. Those kinds of projects need and utilize such concrete requirements to structure the development effort. Not to say that it has been met or not.
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09-23-2007, 11:13 PM | #116 |
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^ Your probably right about BMW having a time in mind and knowing a reasonable Lap time already. I guess we will just have to wait and see if they release any information or have any comments about SportAuto
Jason
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09-24-2007, 12:36 AM | #117 | |
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Bruce |
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09-24-2007, 07:39 AM | #118 | |
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Dude, It's not who can post the fastest lap, it about validating the cars actual performance in stock from. So that a BMW's time CAN be compared to an Audi's or Mercedes..! SportAuto does an great job of this and if they got a 8:03 with their BMW, chances are if you show up with YOUR bmw and and let Horst grip your ride, he'll probably trap about the same lap time. What more can you ask for? What more do you need? -Garrett |
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09-24-2007, 07:47 AM | #119 | |
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09-24-2007, 07:54 AM | #120 |
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09-24-2007, 07:57 AM | #121 |
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09-24-2007, 08:16 AM | #122 |
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Drives: 2007 E92 M3
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09-24-2007, 08:32 AM | #123 | |
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Here, let me help you; sections from that article: "Even tough the conditions was far from ideal, with temperatures ranging down to 6 C, the Koenigsegg still managed to show class leading performance with a time of 7 minutes and 34 seconds around the Nürburgring Nordschleife, with comparatively cold tires, minimizing the grip level." "Due to the cold weather, the tires did not reach full working temperature, which is equivalent to a loss of minimum 5 seconds per lap around the ring, compared to a well tempered day, according to the experts." |
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09-24-2007, 08:40 AM | #124 | |
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Best regards, south |
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09-24-2007, 08:47 AM | #125 | |
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Ultimately, due to such differences (and depending on other things such as if the driver had an argument with his wife that morning or not), I don't think it is meaningful to care too much about differences up to 7-8, maybe even 10, seconds. And I still would very much like to see some "best" possible lap times! Which brings me a question: would someone care to speculate how many seconds the M3 might end up shaving from its lap time by using CUPs? |
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09-24-2007, 09:08 AM | #126 | |
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Best regards, south |
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09-24-2007, 11:13 AM | #128 | |
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Makes the 8:10 mentioned by BMW compared with the 8:03 rumor pretty interesting, no? I personally would hope that the 8:03 rumor is correct, and was done on stock rubber, but I doubt it. A completely stock 8:03 means that the car gets down fairly close to the two icons (911S and Vette Z51) at 7:59, which is heartening. All this is of little consequence - except for my personal fear that the new car will just be too big and heavy to be a fun ride. Hope I'm wrong. Bruce |
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09-24-2007, 12:59 PM | #129 | |
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09-24-2007, 01:03 PM | #130 |
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09-24-2007, 01:05 PM | #131 | |
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Best regards, south Last edited by southlight; 09-24-2007 at 01:14 PM.. Reason: clarification, thanks swamp |
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09-24-2007, 01:13 PM | #132 |
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Small clarification
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