BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
European Auto Source (EAS)
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-07-2014, 04:14 PM   #1
schnell325
Bored at work....
schnell325's Avatar
Canada
755
Rep
5,183
Posts

Drives: 2015 F80 M3//2016 F82 M4 GTS
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Comox Valley

iTrader: (8)

Active Autowerke Gen2 Level3 dyno day

Had 8 cars at 5252 Motorsports in Victoria, BC for a full day on the dyno.
1 2010 E92 M3(seen in vid and all data related to this M) 3 AA sc E46 M3's, 1 E46 M3(10lb flywheel, aa headers, KN cais, AA underdrive pulley, AA tune.) 1 2013 E92 M3 Bolt ons, 1 2007 E92 335is(downpipes, cais, AA full exhaust, dinan software) 1 E39 M5 ( AA cais, AA tune) More data on other cars to come. It was a good day of surprises and finding where some more power can be squeezed out of a couple of the E46's.




Name:  632whp run.jpg
Views: 1304
Size:  104.3 KB Name:  run11.jpg
Views: 1110
Size:  156.1 KB Name:  616whp run.jpg
Views: 1119
Size:  110.8 KB Name:  run12.jpg
Views: 1140
Size:  156.2 KB
Attached Images
  

Last edited by schnell325; 03-07-2014 at 04:20 PM..
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 05:56 PM   #2
OM VT3
Lieutenant Colonel
OM VT3's Avatar
128
Rep
1,673
Posts

Drives: 2011 e92 zcp m3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (1)

Is like to see this on eas dyno just so you can compare
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 06:28 PM   #3
Verify
Captain
18
Rep
642
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MD-NY

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh View Post
Is like to see this on eas dyno just so you can compare
probably 680 on EAS' Dyno
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 06:34 PM   #4
VCP
Colonel
VCP's Avatar
Canada
1379
Rep
2,350
Posts

Drives: M4GTS BSM/F90comp/BSM M2CS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

That sounds right. Dynojet vs Dyno dynamics with eddy current

Correction:
Have verified with the owner of 5252 that the dyno dynamics is corrected to read exactly as dynojet. The showing of Flywheel HP is how his software is set. The reading is WHP.
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 06:46 PM   #5
OM VT3
Lieutenant Colonel
OM VT3's Avatar
128
Rep
1,673
Posts

Drives: 2011 e92 zcp m3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (1)

How much boost is this car running?
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 06:53 PM   #6
VCP
Colonel
VCP's Avatar
Canada
1379
Rep
2,350
Posts

Drives: M4GTS BSM/F90comp/BSM M2CS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Boost graph above. 9psi

Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh View Post
How much boost is this car running?
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 07:09 PM   #7
whats77inaname
Banned
United_States
732
Rep
3,395
Posts

Drives: when at all possible
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tx

iTrader: (25)

Those dyno sheets all say "Flywheel HP" on the left side, y-axis. Is the standard for the E9X to subtract 15% or so to determine @ RWHP?
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 07:24 PM   #8
OM VT3
Lieutenant Colonel
OM VT3's Avatar
128
Rep
1,673
Posts

Drives: 2011 e92 zcp m3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (1)

Ohhh I didn't see flywheel lol
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 08:43 PM   #9
VCP
Colonel
VCP's Avatar
Canada
1379
Rep
2,350
Posts

Drives: M4GTS BSM/F90comp/BSM M2CS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

LOL This is WHP. Here is the company that did the dyno. Read some of the blogs to see this is how their dyno is setup. http://5252motorsports.blogspot.ca/ http://www.5252motorsports.com/page9.html
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 09:03 PM   #10
whats77inaname
Banned
United_States
732
Rep
3,395
Posts

Drives: when at all possible
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tx

iTrader: (25)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCP View Post
LOL This is WHP. Here is the company that did the dyno. Read some of the blogs to see this is how their dyno is setup. http://5252motorsports.blogspot.ca/ http://www.5252motorsports.com/page9.html
Mmmmmmmmm....the dyno sheets say otherwise, my man. Not that I'm doubting you, but the sheet specifically says, "Flywheel".
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 09:10 PM   #11
chris3g
First Lieutenant
156
Rep
334
Posts

Drives: 2021 M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NJ

iTrader: (3)

Dyno dynamics can display estimated flywheel power, it just multiplies the measured wheel hp by some predetermined amount.

It's not wheel hp when it says flywheel right on the graph.
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 09:12 PM   #12
OM VT3
Lieutenant Colonel
OM VT3's Avatar
128
Rep
1,673
Posts

Drives: 2011 e92 zcp m3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCP View Post
LOL This is WHP. Here is the company that did the dyno. Read some of the blogs to see this is how their dyno is setup. http://5252motorsports.blogspot.ca/ http://www.5252motorsports.com/page9.html
so what your trying to say is this would make 680hp on the was dyno on 9psi?

lol vt3 makes 700+ on about 14psi its not even possible on 9psi no matter what kit you have
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 09:15 PM   #13
OM VT3
Lieutenant Colonel
OM VT3's Avatar
128
Rep
1,673
Posts

Drives: 2011 e92 zcp m3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Somewhere

iTrader: (1)

why does power drop off at about 7700rpm the car makes about 8.5psi there……..boost keeps climbing but power just drops off……..
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 09:20 PM   #14
VCP
Colonel
VCP's Avatar
Canada
1379
Rep
2,350
Posts

Drives: M4GTS BSM/F90comp/BSM M2CS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

I have corrected on previous post. Sorry for initial confusion.
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 09:31 PM   #15
flipm3
E46 + E90
Philippines
105
Rep
2,832
Posts

Drives: E46 M3 + E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW M3  [0.00]
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
Whether thats wheel or flywheel power, still big numbers! Car sounds wicked on the dyno.

Are those temperature readings accurate though? Ambient temp of 70F but IAT of 53F?
__________________
E90 M3 DCT|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth | My Build Thread
E46 M3 6MT|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather | My Build Thread
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 09:33 PM   #16
VCP
Colonel
VCP's Avatar
Canada
1379
Rep
2,350
Posts

Drives: M4GTS BSM/F90comp/BSM M2CS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

This explains why last year it ran 591whp on this dyno around the same time Active dynoed their car, blitz, on a dynojet and it was 586whp. The difference this time was IAT's, that's all. Makes a huge short difference. Regardless the numbers were put down. It did multiple mid 590's-600runs through the day as well.
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 09:37 PM   #17
VCP
Colonel
VCP's Avatar
Canada
1379
Rep
2,350
Posts

Drives: M4GTS BSM/F90comp/BSM M2CS
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipm3
Whether thats wheel or flywheel power, still big numbers! Car sounds wicked on the dyno.

Are those temperature readings accurate though? Ambient temp of 70F but IAT of 53F?
Thanks man! I was freaking frozen in there. Maybe his in room thermometer is up near the roof, lol. Those are the numbers.
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 10:20 PM   #18
Mit_Boost
Captain
Germany
132
Rep
692
Posts

Drives: E90 335
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: NJ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh View Post
lol vt3 makes 700+ on about 14psi its not even possible on 9psi no matter what kit you have
Completely different superchargers, inaccurate comparison
__________________

Results >
Appreciate 0
      03-07-2014, 10:57 PM   #19
Ging
Private First Class
31
Rep
122
Posts

Drives: m3
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: canada

iTrader: (0)

The VT3 is a low compression and takes more PSI to make same power.

The power drops close to redline because Active Autowerke keep BMW's Revlimiter strategy. BMW starts closing the throttles blades as it coming up to redline. Doing this helps the engine not slam into the limiter. Some tuner companies do away with this strategy and keep them open right to the limiter. This can gain 15-20whp but you are slamming the limiter and it can be hard on the engine and the blower. You can see the throttles start closing in the video on the final run. also this car has a 8100rpm redline


Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh View Post
so what your trying to say is this would make 680hp on the was dyno on 9psi?

lol vt3 makes 700+ on about 14psi its not even possible on 9psi no matter what kit you have
why does power drop off at about 7700rpm the car makes about 8.5psi there……..boost keeps climbing but power just drops off……..

Last edited by Ging; 03-07-2014 at 11:49 PM..
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2014, 12:21 AM   #20
regular guy
Lieutenant Colonel
385
Rep
1,947
Posts

Drives: Sprint car
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by VCP View Post
That sounds right. Dynojet vs Dyno dynamics with eddy current

Correction:
Have verified with the owner of 5252 that the dyno dynamics is corrected to read exactly as dynojet. The showing of Flywheel HP is how his software is set. The reading is WHP.
I won't belabor the same point others are making about flywheel vs. wheel horsepower.

But I will comment about Dynojet vs. Dyno Dynamics. The difference is usually about 11%. You can see in the upper right there is a field that says "Extra corr: 1.000" -- that means there is no extra correction being applied. That makes sense because in flywheel mode, you wouldn't want any extra correction applied.

Another thing that caught my eye was the dyno correction factor. They are using J1995 instead of J1349 correction. That's a bit odd...but doesn't mean anything other than that. J1349 is the standard most people use. So let me translate that for you and give you the numbers in all the various correction factors.

Car-1:
Unc: 643.6 hp, 437.9 tq (uncorrected)
SAE: 628.5 hp, 427.6 tq (SAE-J1349)
STD: 645.5 hp, 439.2 tq (STD/STP)
J1995: 632.0 hp, 430.0 tq

Car-2:
Unc: 628.6 hp, 426.1 tq (uncorrected)
SAE: 613.4 hp, 415.8 tq (SAE-J1349)
STD: 630.1 hp, 427.1 tq (STD/STP)
J1995: 616.7 hp, 418.0 tq
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2014, 12:30 AM   #21
regular guy
Lieutenant Colonel
385
Rep
1,947
Posts

Drives: Sprint car
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ging View Post
The power drops close to redline because Active Autowerke keep BMW's Revlimiter strategy. BMW starts closing the throttles blades as it coming up to redline. Doing this helps the engine not slam into the limiter. Some tuner companies do away with this strategy and keep them open right to the limiter. This can gain 15-20whp but you are slamming the limiter and it can be hard on the engine and the blower. You can see the throttles start closing in the video on the final run. also this car has a 8100rpm redline
I'm not going to comment on what AA does with their tune because I've never data logged it. But I can tell you the part about the stock tune is not correct. The stock tune does not close the throttle bodies before redline. In this dyno (click here), you can see data logging of throttle bodies opening/closing. On a bone stock 2011 M3, the throttle bodies didn't close until redline @ 8300 RPMs.

Here's the graph:
Appreciate 0
      03-08-2014, 12:33 AM   #22
regular guy
Lieutenant Colonel
385
Rep
1,947
Posts

Drives: Sprint car
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by schnell325 View Post
Had 8 cars at 5252 Motorsports in Victoria, BC for a full day on the dyno.
1 2010 E92 M3(seen in vid and all data related to this M) 3 AA sc E46 M3's, 1 E46 M3(10lb flywheel, aa headers, KN cais, AA underdrive pulley, AA tune.) 1 2013 E92 M3 Bolt ons, 1 2007 E92 335is(downpipes, cais, AA full exhaust, dinan software) 1 E39 M5 ( AA cais, AA tune) More data on other cars to come. It was a good day of surprises and finding where some more power can be squeezed out of a couple of the E46's.
Very nice numbers OP. It looks very healthy! Hope to see your car at another runway event.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:40 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST