school me on seats and harnesses

[kolosy]

i'm trying my best with this build to stay away from cosmetics and spend money on things that make it a better track car, but i hate the bamboo interior which is making me think about seats sooner than i probably need them.

car is an e90, and i just bought a quick fit pro harness (just the one for now). i don't think i'm at the point of needing / benefiting from an interior strip out, nor am i going fast enough to warrant a cage. is something like a recaro sportster with the quick fit pro on both sides a good intermediate step that i won't have to rip out if i ever do move to a cage / no interior? does it make sense to run a quickfit style harness with a track seat like that, or do i need to get a harness bar? also i'm not trailering the car so i need to survive a 2 hour drive up to road america in whatever setup i go with..

[gh0stE92M3]

If you’re in SoCal come see https://gridpartners.store/ or give them a call they’re you’re one stop shop and very knowledgeable. They can answer all your questions and get you set up.

But to answer your question you can spend the money on the sportsters or just run the stock seats with the harness you have. Sportsters are good middle ground for comfort and spirited driving but if you’re gonna be tracking a lot bucket seats are where it’s at. There’s some pretty comfortable buckets out there just gotta try them all out.

[Ximian]

The Quick Fit Pro (and regular Quick Fit) is only compatible with Cobra Nogaro and Recaro Pole Position ABE in already approved cars, so those are your only options as far as aftermarket seats with that specific harness and its attachment points.

If you end up going the roll cage route, that's not the best idea to drive without a helmet and harness so not recommended for a car you'll be driving to the track. Best to trailer it at that point.

For other seats, you'll need a harness bar. If you do end up installing a roll cage in the future, save some money and buy a full containment seat first instead of upgrading to it later.

Hope that helps narrow down the options.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by Ximian

The Quick Fit Pro (and regular Quick Fit) is only compatible with Cobra Nogaro and Recaro Pole Position ABE in already approved cars, so those are your only options as far as aftermarket seats with that specific harness and its attachment points.

If you end up going the roll cage route, that's not the best idea to drive without a helmet and harness so not recommended for a car you'll be driving to the track. Best to trailer it at that point.

For other seats, you'll need a harness bar. If you do end up installing a roll cage in the future, save some money and buy a full containment seat first instead of upgrading to it later.

Hope that helps narrow down the options.

didn't realize that part about not street driving a car with full buckets + cage. super helpful, thank you.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by kolosy

didn't realize that part about not street driving a car with full buckets + cage. super helpful, thank you.

you'll be fine with a half-cage.. a full cage i would for sure no longer consider that a street car.

or just run a BK harness mount. if you wish to use a harness.

[1FastSicilian]

Originally Posted by kolosy

didn't realize that part about not street driving a car with full buckets + cage. super helpful, thank you.

most roll bars on this chassis sit pretty far back from the driver's seat.. You'll be OK on the street.

the concern alot of people have (from what I've gathered) is the worry of hitting your head on the cage in the event of a collision.

-Frank

[M eyedoc]

I have been happy with my Schroth pro belts and stock seats as my car gets frequent street mileage. If the bamboo color is the problem, maybe keep an eye out for used interior to swap. Other option is to dye the seats black. Might make a nice change, and preserves street abilities and $$.

[bigjae1976]

I think your best dual option is a containment seat, a quality harness bar and a 6pt harness. If you are using any harness...should have a HANS device.

So the argument against this is if you have a rollover the roof will cave in and crush your held because a fixed back seat won't flex. Yes, rollovers can cause death. Studies have shown that almost all of the deaths are caused by bodily contact with the ground when the car is on its side - head hitting the ground. People with this argument directly contradict years of data collected by NHTSA, Motorsports and specifically Schroth. I'd believe Schroth and the data.

The downside is a containment seat will make getting in and out of the car a little less dignified. No more wearing skirts. And visibility might be affected in certain situations.

The quick fit PROs are a great option. Not the quick fits. The pro brings the shoulder straps in which helps keep the shoulder straps on the HANS. My opinion is a HANS should be MANDATORY with any 4pt or higher restraint due to the higher risk of a basal skull fracture.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

I think your best dual option is a containment seat, a quality harness bar and a 6pt harness. If you are using any harness...should have a HANS device.

coming back to this because the season is starting and my OE seat cushion is shot, i'm basically sitting on the seat frame.

dumb question -- how is a containment seat different than a "race" bucket? is the pole position a containment seat?

also -- thoughts on the autopower harness bar? they have a bolt in for the E90 for not a terrible amount of money (yes, yes, shouldn't skimp on safety gear).

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by kolosy

coming back to this because the season is starting and my OE seat cushion is shot, i'm basically sitting on the seat frame.

dumb question -- how is a containment seat different than a "race" bucket? is the pole position a containment seat?

also -- thoughts on the autopower harness bar? they have a bolt in for the E90 for not a terrible amount of money (yes, yes, shouldn't skimp on safety gear).

containment seats have head restraints. so you body is fully contained from head to thighs.

pole positions do not have a head restraint.

[MineralWhiteF80]

For a street car that gets tracked, I think the happy medium is a bucket seat without head restraints, a harness bar (half roll cage), and HANS device.

Best thing I can recommend is physically sit in a seat before you buy it, if you can. There are a lot of seats out there and they all fit differently in several places that are crucial to get the proper fitment (like shoulder harness hole height, etc). Depending on your body shape, you might find the seat you are wanting fits you the worst! Focus on fitment and not brand name or social media influence.

Also, for my E92, if I could do it over, i’d opt for a half cage that mounts on top of the cross beam in the back seat (like GTS style) rather than one that bolts into the floor. My StudioRSR half cage bolts to the floor and you definitely sacrifice leg room and passenger fitment because of it. I’m 5’9” but anyone taller might have problems getting enough leg room. I see that a bit when I take tall passengers in my car.

Pic of my setup for attention:

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by MineralWhiteF80

For a street car that gets tracked, I think the happy medium is a bucket seat without head restraints, a harness bar (half roll cage), and HANS device.

Best thing I can recommend is physically sit in a seat before you buy it, if you can. There are a lot of seats out there and they all fit differently in several places that are crucial to get the proper fitment (like shoulder harness hole height, etc). Depending on your body shape, you might find the seat you are wanting fits you the worst! Focus on fitment and not brand name or social media influence.

Also, for my E92, if I could do it over, i’d opt for a half cage that mounts on top of the cross beam in the back seat (like GTS style) rather than one that bolts into the floor. My StudioRSR half cage bolts to the floor and you definitely sacrifice leg room and passenger fitment because of it. I’m 5’9” but anyone taller might have problems getting enough leg room. I see that a bit when I take tall passengers in my car.

Pic of my setup for attention:

lol @ "for attention"

so crucial update since i posted this thread.. i swapped my daily to an x5 m with a tow hitch on it so i can (open) trailer the car.

... so now it's not really a street car and doesn't need to be..

as i type that, makes me think that i should just say f it, and go with a half cage and real harness (yes, yes + a HANS device)

[Cmassey3]

I also have the bamboo beige interior and I feel like it looks bad with black alcantara race seat swaps or even the standard pole positions. From all my rabbit holes on this, I think the GTS execution (half cage + pole position seats) is about the best you can get for a club sport type build.

Then I found that some people can get them recovered in bamboo beige to match. It's probably more hoops than just a regular seat swap. It's also teetering on show car levels of detail, but it's worth a look.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1243068

I believe this is a shop that does the work: https://amx-performance.com/ I'd expect most upholsterers to be able to do this type of work though.

If you dislike the beige entirely, you could pick up someone's e90 interior part out and swap over the ones you like to remove all the bamboo colored ones.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by kolosy

lol @ "for attention"

so crucial update since i posted this thread.. i swapped my daily to an x5 m with a tow hitch on it so i can (open) trailer the car.

... so now it's not really a street car and doesn't need to be..

as i type that, makes me think that i should just say f it, and go with a half cage and real harness (yes, yes + a HANS device)

A harness bar is OK, probably not much different than a 4pt bar.

I think ensuing the driver is securely fastened in the car greatly increases safety because you’re connected to the car and not sliding around and using focus and energy trying to stay in the seat. Less likely to make a mistake or misjudgment.

Just my theory.

My only rule would be if you use a harness, use a HANS.

[e92BMW///M3]

I have the Schroth Quick fit pro and stock seats but was looking into race seats… my torso is way too tall for the shoulder straps on the pole positions. Im not at the point of a cage, so my question is am I better off with the Quick fit pro on stock seats or the ABE with the 3 point belt? Tempted to try the ABE but part of me knows it’s a half solution.

[derbo]

Originally Posted by e92BMW///M3

I have the Schroth Quick fit pro and stock seats but was looking into race seats… my torso is way too tall for the shoulder straps on the pole positions. Im not at the point of a cage, so my question is am I better off with the Quick fit pro on stock seats or the ABE with the 3 point belt? Tempted to try the ABE but part of me knows it’s a half solution.

You already know the answer since you said your torso is too tall for the shoulder straps on PP.

[e92BMW///M3]

Originally Posted by Ximian

The Quick Fit Pro (and regular Quick Fit) is only compatible with Cobra Nogaro and Recaro Pole Position ABE in already approved cars, so those are your only options as far as aftermarket seats with that specific harness and its attachment points.

Originally Posted by derbo

You already know the answer since you said your torso is too tall for the shoulder straps on PP.

Appreciate both responses. Doing more reading about the ABE, someone suggested removing the bottom pad/cushion while running on track if torso length / shoulder height is an issue (as a possible solution). Online searching hasn't provided an answer so wondering if anyone with an ABE could provide clarity on how much height this frees up (e.g. is it only 1/2" or closer to 2").

I am focused on the ABE since it works with the Quick Fit Pro that I have and since this is a car that is still street driven so I'd like to retain the 3 point belt for all of those situations.

[Sanchez14]

I have cobra Nogaros, so pretty similar to ABE’s. I remove the bottom cushion and a harness would fit safely with this. It’s a good 2.5 inches lower. I’m 6’4” for reference.

[roastbeef]

one of the things that will dictate the direction you go is how big you are- if you're tall or fat, you'll be destined for a larger seat.
if you're on the shorter side, the height of a race seat can be problematic in a daily driven car.
i tried to use oem sliders with brey krause race seat mounts, and the seats didn't move forward and back much because they were XL, and they were just as tall as oem, which was problematic because i'm 6'03" and my head almost touches the roof with a helmet on.

i went with a floor mount and i wanted to be just a smidge higher. a seat pad solved this issue. also made the seat very comfortable.
https://upr.com/series-194421-upr-ra...html#!sq%3Dpad

the schroth quick fit is a good option for a car retaining the back seat. any harness bar would negate the use of the back seat.

for a hans device, i liked the simpson hybrid pro s. at the time, this was the only hans device you could effectively use with an oem three point seatbelt. i liked this in case i wanted to hop in for a ride in a friend's car or whatever.
https://www.simpsonraceproducts.com/...ts/HYSMED11M61

[bipp]

Is there a measurement for the max torso height that can safely fit into PP ABE's with a harness? Struggling a bit to find the right measurements on the Recaro site, and it seems like the holes are a bit higher up on the ABE as opposed to the FIA from direct comparison pictures.

[kolosy]

yeah it really is a bummer how hard it is to try these seats out. i realize the demand for track seats doesn't justify a dedicated showroom somewhere but it'd be nice if that existed.

[e92BMW///M3]

Originally Posted by bipp

Is there a measurement for the max torso height that can safely fit into PP ABE's with a harness? Struggling a bit to find the right measurements on the Recaro site, and it seems like the holes are a bit higher up on the ABE as opposed to the FIA from direct comparison pictures.

If I sit on the floor and measure to the top of my shoulder where a harness would go it was right on 25". When I sat in the PP ABE I was probably 1.5" (maybe 2") from the top of the holes for a harness. Bit of conjecture/estimation there but hope its directionally helpful.

edit: 25" is my height from floor to shoulder while seated which implies the recaro shoulder holes are between 23-23.5" but that is just a rough estimate based on some fuzzy math.