Intermittent Starting Issue

[Justaphil]

Hello!

Thank you for checking out this thread, it's quite a wild one.


I am having an odd issue with my car that I am hoping to get some help with.



My car was in an accident, after it was repaired this issue arose.


Here is the issue.


The car will start and then die imediatly after....then it will just crank until i cycle the key then it will start and die again, its a very viscious cycle.

I took it to a local shop and they told me my DME was bad so I went ahead and bought a new one, while sitting bored at home I went ahead and swapped DMEs (no clue why, just bored - it had not been programmed) and noticed that it sounded healthy when cranking and that the immobilizer was kicking in, I went ahead and swapped the DME with my old one and BAM! the car started with no codes!

I was excited but also confused since this doesnt make any sense.

After the shop messed with it they gave it back to me saying they made no progress.


As of today I have done some troubleshooting with no luck, The car will only start after unplugging and plugging in the DME. It will start fine with no codes for the rest of the day, in the morning it will not start and throw out a ton of codes


P2095 - B Camshaft Position Bank 2
P2093 - A Camshaft Position Bank 2
P2091 - B Camshaft Position Bank 1
P2089 - A Camshaft Position Bank 1
U011E - Lost Communication with Throttle Actuator B
U0107 - Lost Communication with Throttle Actuator Control Module
U1136 - Lost Communication with Idle Speed Control Valve



Once I reset the DME and clear the codes they will not come back.

Help, I am running out of ideas

[Redd]

Those errors make me think it might be a wiring issue. Which part of the car was repaired due to the accident? Maybe something is loose in the fuse box?

[kolosy]

grounding straps?

[amrazM]

what was the extent of the damage on the car? there is an electrical issue, post details of the accident and we will try to assist.

[Justaphil]

Originally Posted by amrazM

what was the extent of the damage on the car? there is an electrical issue, post details of the accident and we will try to assist.

R=


Cradle was cracked so I think they pulled the motor

[Justaphil]

ALSO


I ended up getting the other DME programmed and the issue is still there

[Justaphil]

Originally Posted by Redd

Those errors make me think it might be a wiring issue. Which part of the car was repaired due to the accident? Maybe something is loose in the fuse box?

We have gone thru all of that with a probe

[Justaphil]

Originally Posted by kolosy

grounding straps?

I even added grounds in case they were missing and same thing, I am wondering if its maybe a specific ground but I am having trouble finding a Ground Diagram

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by Justaphil

I even added grounds in case they were missing and same thing, I am wondering if its maybe a specific ground but I am having trouble finding a Ground Diagram

there's a strap on the oil pan by the driver side o2 sensor, and then the exhausts.

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by Justaphil

I even added grounds in case they were missing and same thing, I am wondering if its maybe a specific ground but I am having trouble finding a Ground Diagram

Did somebody say Ground Diagram??
I gotchu...

If you can easily reproduce this on a cold car, I would check voltages at the connectors with just IGN on. The JBE controls the supply to these circuits via a relay and F16. So hopefully it's not that. But if we're suspecting the GNDE, then these are spliced. My gut instinct makes me think something might be up with the DME. Looks like pin 23 on the DME shares this GNDE.

Be careful/mindful with poking and prodding connectors as well as excessively cycling them. You don't want to spread any female terminals in the process.

DME Pin assignments:

Plug connector overview
X60105 44-pin, black Component connector A6000 DME control unit, module 5
X60107 26-pin, natural Component connector A6000 DME control unit, module 7


Pin assignments at plug connector X60105
34 M Sensor ground Ground connector
35 E/A BSD signal Connector X6038
36 E Signal, throttle valve position Throttle valve sensor 2
37 E Signal, throttle valve position Throttle valve sensor
38 M Sensor ground Connector, sensor ground
39 A Activation Electric throttle valve actuator 2 Electric throttle valve actuator 2

Pin assignments at plug connector X60107
23 M Sensor ground Connector, sensor ground
24 E Signal Intake camshaft sensor 2 Intake camshaft sensor 2
25 E Signal Exhaust camshaft sensor 2 Exhaust camshaft sensor 2

P.S. The ground strap on the block wouldn't have anything to do with your issue, according to the wiring diagram--but doesn't hurt to check. If you look in realoem, the ground cable on the oil pan is more so to help with the starter motor & alternator--which is why it's included in that group. Most of the times those ground straps (or battery earth as they're known) on the block, hood, tailgate, exhaust is to help with interference.
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=12_1106


Please report back your findings. Pictures can help too.

[Justaphil]

Originally Posted by RocketyMan

Did somebody say Ground Diagram??
I gotchu...

If you can easily reproduce this on a cold car, I would check voltages at the connectors with just IGN on. The JBE controls the supply to these circuits via a relay and F16. So hopefully it's not that. But if we're suspecting the GNDE, then these are spliced. My gut instinct makes me think something might be up with the DME. Looks like pin 23 on the DME shares this GNDE.

Be careful/mindful with poking and prodding connectors as well as excessively cycling them. You don't want to spread any female terminals in the process.

DME Pin assignments:

Plug connector overview
X60105 44-pin, black Component connector A6000 DME control unit, module 5
X60107 26-pin, natural Component connector A6000 DME control unit, module 7


Pin assignments at plug connector X60105
34 M Sensor ground Ground connector
35 E/A BSD signal Connector X6038
36 E Signal, throttle valve position Throttle valve sensor 2
37 E Signal, throttle valve position Throttle valve sensor
38 M Sensor ground Connector, sensor ground
39 A Activation Electric throttle valve actuator 2 Electric throttle valve actuator 2

Pin assignments at plug connector X60107
23 M Sensor ground Connector, sensor ground
24 E Signal Intake camshaft sensor 2 Intake camshaft sensor 2
25 E Signal Exhaust camshaft sensor 2 Exhaust camshaft sensor 2

P.S. The ground strap on the block wouldn't have anything to do with your issue, according to the wiring diagram--but doesn't hurt to check. If you look in realoem, the ground cable on the oil pan is more so to help with the starter motor & alternator--which is why it's included in that group. Most of the times those ground straps (or battery earth as they're known) on the block, hood, tailgate, exhaust is to help with interference.
https://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/sho...diagId=12_1106


Please report back your findings. Pictures can help too.

So after digging around and not seeing anything I just bought a new harness and swapped it out and nothings changed...

I have no idea and taking it to the dealer and getting a 5k charge is not an option


I looked over all the grounds as well, they are all making good contact, I do recall doing the oil pan one but I will check again later this week, car is up to date on all recalls as well

[MineralWhiteF80]

Can you tell us how you are retrieving the error codes? It's something to confirm in the troubleshooting process because if you are using ISTA with a K+DCAN cable and laptop, and your network settings are not correct and your latency setting is higher than "1," then ISTA is not able to reliably communicate with the modules. This is where you typically see the "Lost communication" codes and ghost codes that actually are not there.

It's mostly useless for me to guess what is wrong, but if the car was in a crash, it makes me think that it could have something to do with how the car handles a crash and what failsafe systems and "crash data" it uses to stop the engine (or prevent the engine from running after a crash), deploy airbags, etc. I dont know if there is a procedure that requires modules that identify a 'crash' to be reset or cleared before standard operation can occur, but it's something to consider.

More info on the damage from the crash might be helpful to know.

[Justaphil]

Was using a cheap handheld scanner then the shop was using a snap-on scanner, other shop used a snap on scanner, and now i am waiting on another shop that has an Autel scanner.
All three shops reported the same things, all told me to get an ecu, I have had 3 ECUs each of them programed and the issue has not gone away

The crash data is a good thought, I have never heard of them keeping crash data, if I could post a video on how it sounds once it starts, its almost like it is not getting enough air

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by Justaphil

So after digging around and not seeing anything I just bought a new harness and swapped it out and nothings changed...

I have no idea and taking it to the dealer and getting a 5k charge is not an option


I looked over all the grounds as well, they are all making good contact, I do recall doing the oil pan one but I will check again later this week, car is up to date on all recalls as well

Swapping in a whole new harness seems rather extreme.

I mean starting with simple things first. Like checking PWR, GND, communication. But i'm sure you did that already.

Might be worth doing a load test on the wiring. Maybe the JBE is compromised...

[Justaphil]

Originally Posted by RocketyMan

Swapping in a whole new harness seems rather extreme.

I mean starting with simple things first. Like checking PWR, GND, communication. But i'm sure you did that already.

Might be worth doing a load test on the wiring. Maybe the JBE is compromised...

Might have found the issue, there was a ground that was not connected to the right spot, i will try to attach a photo



Its the ground that sits right behind the windshield fluid tank, it was connected to an empty slot in the little box where the positive jumper attachment is....


just moved it last night and it started fine today, no codes. hopefully that did it but i will give it some time before writting this off as solved



EDIT - This is not my own photo, this is a base 3 series but the concept is still the same, I will post my own photo later

[Brandoch]

Originally Posted by Justaphil

Might have found the issue, there was a ground that was not connected to the right spot, i will try to attach a photo



Its the ground that sits right behind the windshield fluid tank, it was connected to an empty slot in the little box where the positive jumper attachment is....


just moved it last night and it started fine today, no codes. hopefully that did it but i will give it some time before writting this off as solved

If these are your pictures, then you have a normal 3 series not an M3.
You should try posting on the normal 3 series forum.

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by Brandoch

If these are your pictures, then you have a normal 3 series not an M3.
You should try posting on the normal 3 series forum.

A 328i or 335i doesn't have two banks implied by the initial codes of the OP. So I think we're good there.

OP, do you have an actual photo? That one looks pretty crusty...and not correct as per an S65.

[Brandoch]

Originally Posted by RocketyMan

A 328i or 335i doesn't have two banks implied by the initial codes of the OP. So I think we're good there.

OP, do you have an actual photo? That one looks pretty crusty...and not correct as per an S65.

Yes they do, I had 335i and have an x3 with n52. Bank one is 1,2,3 bank 2 is 4,5,6.

[RocketyMan]

Originally Posted by Brandoch

Yes they do, I had 335i and have an x3 with n52. Bank one is 1,2,3 bank 2 is 4,5,6.

Really?..interesting!

[Justaphil]

Originally Posted by Brandoch

If these are your pictures, then you have a normal 3 series not an M3.
You should try posting on the normal 3 series forum.

Thanks big man, I will try to post my own photo later

[kimiraikkonen]

Originally Posted by Justaphil

Thanks big man, I will try to post my own photo later

Justaphil Hi. I might be having a similar issue and would you mind posting the specific pic from your car. Specifically, is there a nut on the post? Mine seems to be missing a nut, specifically the front facing nut on #6 (left post)?