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      06-25-2014, 04:48 PM   #23
Killerfish2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FRFNUGN View Post
See here, I would hope the new F8x could reasonably match/beat these times:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=707
Match/Beat a modded E92 M3 DCT with R comps(Scrubs!)? No way man.
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      06-25-2014, 05:10 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Sebringjetta View Post
yup when i saw that flyby.....
HAHAHA
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      06-25-2014, 05:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by FRFNUGN View Post
Which should allow for a much-quicker-than 2:51 lap time.
He ran the FULL Road America course with virtually no traffic. 2:50 flat is where I was at with a 335I that has a bit more HP/TQ, with one less gear, and about maybe 100 more lbs. He's pretty good, and would be fine in the intermediate to advanced group, which represents what the average driver can get. Even a professional race car driver would not be able to knock out 11 seconds like folks are suggesting. Impossible. Maybe 1-3.
Dude, no offense, but I have personally run mid-2:40's in a Spec Miata at Road America. A 120hp car, on Toyos. A 400+hp car, even on PSS, is easily capable of times in the high 2:30's with a capable driver. I've witnessed this personally, and I've shared the track with mostly-stock, 3000+lb, 400+hp cars running mid 2:30's and seen the time sheets and the cars themselves. Yes r-tires make a difference but at a track which is mostly straightaway, it's not a huge disadvantage anywhere except the carousel
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      06-25-2014, 05:42 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Dude, no offense, but I have personally run mid-2:40's in a Spec Miata at Road America. A 120hp car, on Toyos. A 400+hp car, even on PSS, is easily capable of times in the 2:30's with a capable driver. If you don't believe me take a look at google, take a look at past ONe Lap results, etc.
We're talking full interior passenger cars, with average skilled drivers. Road America lap times can be estimated very easily with peak mph in the straights. There is no way a stock '15 M3 is posting lap times on par with stock C6 Z06's posting a 15+mph peak mph deficit. Just take a look at the lap times thread. One guy had a 2:39 with a modded M3 DCT on scrubs. Klammer is the only modded E9X M3 that has run a 2:3X time at Road America, and that took him years to accomplish. Again, I don't know why anyone who ran a 2:51 in a stock '15 M3/4 claiming to go flat out with no traffic, should be ashamed.
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      06-25-2014, 05:50 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
We're talking full interior passenger cars, with average skilled drivers. Road America lap times can be estimated very easily with peak mph in the straights. There is no way a stock '15 M3 is posting lap times on par with stock C6 Z06's posting a 15+mph peak mph deficit. Just take a look at the lap times thread. One guy had a 2:39 with a modded M3 DCT on scrubs. Klammer is the only modded E9X M3 that has run a 2:3X time at Road America, and that took him years to accomplish. Again, I don't know why anyone who ran a 2:51 claiming to go flat out with no traffic, should be ashamed.
Why are you still arguing? Do you realize how much difference there is between 2:51 and 2:39? Like a year in track times. The guy in the vid (and you) are running times that are pretty good for 120hp cars, and road america is one of the most power-biased road courses in the country (meaning 120hp racecars there are at even more of a disadvantage than elsewhere).

Nobody is trying to insult you or insult the driver in the vid, it is just factual that a 2:51 is nowhere close to F8X M4 capabilities. For reference, a typical spec miata time at VIR is roughly 7-8 seconds slower than a near stock E9X M3 in the hands of a very fast driver (2:20 and 2:13 ish).
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      06-25-2014, 06:03 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
with average skilled drivers.
here is the issue.
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      06-25-2014, 06:03 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
We're talking full interior passenger cars, with average skilled drivers. Road America lap times can be estimated very easily with peak mph in the straights. There is no way a stock '15 M3 is posting lap times on par with stock C6 Z06's posting a 15+mph peak mph deficit. Just take a look at the lap times thread. One guy had a 2:39 with a modded M3 DCT on scrubs. Klammer is the only modded E9X M3 that has run a 2:3X time at Road America, and that took him years to accomplish. Again, I don't know why anyone who ran a 2:51 claiming to go flat out with no traffic, should be ashamed.
Why are you still arguing? Do you realize how much difference there is between 2:51 and 2:39? Like a year in track times. The guy in the vid (and you) are running times that are pretty good for 120hp cars, and road america is one of the most power-biased road courses in the country (meaning 120hp racecars there are at even more of a disadvantage than elsewhere).

Nobody is trying to insult you or insult the driver in the vid, it is just factual that a 2:51 is nowhere close to F8X M4 capabilities. For reference, a typical spec miata time at VIR is roughly 7-8 seconds slower than a near stock E9X M3 in the hands of a very fast driver (2:20 and 2:13 ish).
Exactly. What the car is capable of is a separate issue from what a driver is capable of, and killerfish is conflating the two
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      06-25-2014, 06:34 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile
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Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3 View Post
dammit there goes my want of a cayman. but i guess understeer is inevitable at a brisk pace.
I loved that car. Just not on track. It feels really good until you get past 8/10 or so and then it falls apart (understeer, not planted at high speed corners etc.) If you're buying it as a mainly track car and drive really hard, you'll probably be let down. Otherwise, they rock.

I posted a track comparison between E9X m3 and 987.1 cayman S awhile back if you want to search for it. Spoiler: m3 is much better. The cayman is handicapped on purpose so it can't beat the 911, and that's a fact.
thanks for this. i actually wanted it because it was hailed as a great track worthy car.

what do you think about the gts?

i guess its another m3/4 or m2 for me next. still enjoying my e90 for now
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      06-25-2014, 08:48 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3 View Post
thanks for this. i actually wanted it because it was hailed as a great track worthy car.

what do you think about the gts?

i guess its another m3/4 or m2 for me next. still enjoying my e90 for now
It is great until you push it hard. No opinion about the gts because I haven't driven it, nor have a driven a 981 on track, so it may be better now. But early 987's understeered and weren't too good on track with stock suspension at least. We own the best street/track car for under $50k IMO (used obviously).
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      06-25-2014, 09:00 PM   #32
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omg at the E92 going into the kink
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      06-25-2014, 09:32 PM   #33
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Is it a hybrid? All I hear is wind noise and tree huggers celebrating.
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      06-25-2014, 11:01 PM   #34
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Is it a hybrid? All I hear is wind noise and tree huggers celebrating.
I need to be in that video doing a blow-by with my track pipes....
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      06-25-2014, 11:29 PM   #35
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I need to be in that video doing a blow-by with my track pipes....
Is that the purple people eater?
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      06-26-2014, 12:47 AM   #36
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I drive flat out at all times.

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      06-26-2014, 12:59 AM   #37
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^Haha, an oldie but goodie
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      06-26-2014, 08:08 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Exactly. What the car is capable of is a separate issue from what a driver is capable of, and killerfish is conflating the two
and your conflating stock, with stripped out, caged out. I too expected this thing to be on par with or faster than the E9X M3s out of the gate, at road america, but it seems it's right at modded 335I times, which is what the car virtually is, in the first place. I'm actually at the track quite often, and in fact will be at Road America this weekend with the Northwoods Shelby Club. PM me whenever you're in the midwest. I would love to meet up with you at the track. I got two 400+hp cars, and I want to see what you can "shave off" from my lap times. Talk is cheap, and reading this thread, you'll get the impression that everyone is a pro racer on here, when in fact no one who has posted thus far can even beat John Mcelroy's time in a stock New M3.
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      06-26-2014, 08:16 AM   #39
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^ this is hilarious. I think you're trolling at this point.
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      06-26-2014, 08:22 AM   #40
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^ this is hilarious. I think you're trolling at this point.
You're invited too. Come out for an HPDE. I've met several members on here, and have done track days together. They don't post like the two of you though, which is why I'm curious to see you guys in person. The last guy who posted like the two of you, whom I met in person ended up crashing his car.
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      06-26-2014, 08:36 AM   #41
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I'm not talking trash about you or the dude in the vid, except to the extent that you're crazy if you think the fastest a f8x can do RA is 2:51 lol. I don't understand how you are the only person that believes otherwise. There is zero doubt that several posters in this thread could do several seconds quicker than that, but the point of this whole discussion has just been against the dramatic "flat-out" description by the poster of the vid and yourself.

Just let it go. There is a zero percent chance that car is being driven at the limit, which is fine but for the description.
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      06-26-2014, 09:25 AM   #42
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^ Someone else gets it. I'm just saying that his description is misleading. And you don't seem to get the difference between the bend and the kink. The video shows the kink, ChumpCars run the bend. The bend adds two more corners and a huge braking zone out of the Carousel, which in turns adds about 10 secs per lap.

So now we have a 186hp stock E30 (maybe cut springs, 180TW Direzza Star Specs, and stripped, I'll give you that), running 2:55 (on the 10 SECOND LONGER CONFIGURATION). So do you still think the F8x was flat out, and it can't even beat an old, tired E30 around the track (not even an E30 M, just a plain ol' 325i)? I'll tell you too that lots of Chumps are good drivers, but not so many are professionals. I would hope an auto journalist that does track days of new cars would be able to be on par.

In terms of me thinking I can do better, I would place money on it, because that car's got much more left in it. I ran 3:05 (with the bend...subtract 10-ish seconds), in a '87 Firebird with less than 300hp, more than 3000lbs and 225 width tires. The M4 should smoke that easy.
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      06-26-2014, 10:14 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
but the point of this whole discussion has just been against the dramatic "flat-out" description by the poster of the vid and yourself.
John McElroy is an accomplished Automotive Journalist. Just look at his resume, and his extremely detailed coverage of the industry. This is not some motor trend/car and bimmer, or road and track guy who's flamboyant in order to promote the organization. I highly doubt his caption or description on his video was meant to just grab attention or self promote like most people on here are claiming. He's too old for that type of stuff. I take him a his word that he drove the thing to his limit, and definitely gives us a feel for what the vehicle is capable of doing right off the show room floor.

Personally, I cringed when I saw that BMW took these guys to road America with the new M3/M4s. I'd take them to a much smaller track myself, as it seems John himself found out when he most likely saw the oil temp guage well above 270F after two hard laps.
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      06-26-2014, 11:49 AM   #44
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I wished they had piped the "enhanced" engine soundtrack to the exterior of the car - maybe a first mod might be external speakers?
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