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      10-22-2013, 07:19 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFL View Post
I put down 361WHP/273WTQ on a Mustang dyno a few weeks ago before I updated to 240e.

I'm kind of iffy on those numbers, other cars later that week were fairly spot on, but their OBD2 module was broken when I was there and they were calibrating the dyno based on my gearing/revs.

So my plan is to get on a Dynojet that I know and trust (Carbconn in Kirkland, WA) and I'll report back.
Modded? That would be over 400 WHP on a Dynojet which is A LOT of power.
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      10-22-2013, 10:22 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sered View Post
Better for tuning, more 'accurate' meh. Dynojets are the universal comparator and Dynopacks/Mustang dynos can be altered too much to fudge numbers.

Dynapack is much harder to manipulate since it removes a lot of variables like tires and wheels.
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      10-23-2013, 12:02 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sered View Post
Better for tuning, more 'accurate' meh. Dynojets are the universal comparator and Dynopacks/Mustang dynos can be altered too much to fudge numbers.

Any dyno that allows manual input weather data is a candidate for manipulation.

No doubt Dynojets are the universal comparator, and very difficult to manipulate. Short of directly manipulating the weather station by heating it up, is very hard to manipulate the results. I've never seen a manual weather input screen on a DJ software, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are legitimate cases for direct weather entry when the weather station is broken.

Dynapacks are equally unimpeachable in this regard. There is a way to manually input weather data, but it's in plain view and gets recorded on files that can be distributed, compared, and verified for manipulated data. Newer Dynapack software doesn't allow file sharing, but they can export the data to Excel where it can be verified for manipulated data.

As for accuracy: hands down goes to Dynapack. Any inertial (roller) dyno like Dynojet is essentially making a very smart and educated guess about horsepower based on acceleration. Change to lighter wheels and tires or get less traction on the dyno and your results will change. A very valid argument can be made that measuring with wheels on the car is more realistic for street performance. No doubt that's a valid argument. But when you talk about accuracy, you think about repeatability and knowing what the engine is doing, not what the Dyno thinks the engine is doing. In this regard, the Dynapack will win the contest hands down.

The Dynapack measures torque on the same principle as an engine dyno. It applies a load at wide-open-throttle and brings the RPM of the engine DOWN to the desired point for measure. Torque is measured based on hydraulic pressure; it is not interpolated based on acceleration of a roller and counting spark frequency (Dynojet). The results are repeatable, often times with repeat runs within 1-3whp of each other. Since it's based on the measurement of hydraulic pressure, there is no calibration that I know of; which means the measured results can't be manipulated either (at least not that I know of). This principle of operation makes the Dynapack far superior to any roller dyno.

I hope this helps.
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      10-23-2013, 02:09 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
Modded? That would be over 400 WHP on a Dynojet which is A LOT of power.
100% Stock.

Dynojet vs. Mustang isn't an exact ratio and results may vary. The dyno I'm used to has always been on par and accurate with all of my other cars compared to other reliable results around the country.

To be fair, Dynos aren't meant or designed to settle anonymous internet pecker contests.

I was/am just really curious as to what this M3 actually puts down and was a bit shocked when I saw the Mustang dyno results. Everything else looked good, Torque/HP intersected at 5250, so I'm guessing our calibration was spot on.
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      10-23-2013, 07:25 PM   #49
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That's really strange. I know that you can't really compare dynos but generally Mustangs are low and 365 on the Mustangs I am familiar with would be ~400 on a Dynojet. Which doesn't make sense; that's an implausible amount of power. Something was screwy IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MFL View Post
100% Stock.

Dynojet vs. Mustang isn't an exact ratio and results may vary. The dyno I'm used to has always been on par and accurate with all of my other cars compared to other reliable results around the country.

To be fair, Dynos aren't meant or designed to settle anonymous internet pecker contests.

I was/am just really curious as to what this M3 actually puts down and was a bit shocked when I saw the Mustang dyno results. Everything else looked good, Torque/HP intersected at 5250, so I'm guessing our calibration was spot on.
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      10-25-2013, 04:57 AM   #50
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Uh, No. Mustangs and Dynojet aren't that far apart. like 5-10HP difference is expected, but they'll trade higher readings just because there's so many variables that they take into account before piping out those numbers.

This is why I'm just going to a dynojet that I trust and will update with my SAE Corrected numbers and uncorrected numbers.
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      10-25-2013, 07:03 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFL View Post
Uh, No. Mustangs and Dynojet aren't that far apart. like 5-10HP difference is expected, but they'll trade higher readings just because there's so many variables that they take into account before piping out those numbers.

This is why I'm just going to a dynojet that I trust and will update with my SAE Corrected numbers and uncorrected numbers.
Haha, okay buddy! There is a reason that Mustangs have earned the nickname "heartbreaker". They often read 10%+ lower. I'll let you do the math...
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      10-25-2013, 07:09 PM   #52
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M3PO is right. All things being equal, Mustangs will dyno lower by a few %.
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      10-25-2013, 08:52 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder
M3PO is right. All things being equal, Mustangs will dyno lower by a few %.
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      10-27-2013, 05:47 PM   #54
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Yeah, It's not substantial and definitely not a fixed ratio.
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      10-27-2013, 07:03 PM   #55
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What's the drivetrain loss on the M3's? 15% 20%?
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      10-28-2013, 08:49 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFL View Post
Yeah, It's not substantial and definitely not a fixed ratio.
It is substantial.

But I will agree not fixed.
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      10-28-2013, 09:32 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haywood View Post
What's the drivetrain loss on the M3's? 15% 20%?
Impossible to get an exact figure short of dynoing a car, then pulling its engine and dynoing it again.

20% is a good ballpark figure.
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      10-29-2013, 06:16 AM   #58
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Drivetrain loss is a fixed ratio? Lol.
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      10-29-2013, 06:17 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
It is substantial.

But I will agree not fixed.
Fuck it, I'm just going to go Dyno my car tomorrow if they can fit me in.
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      10-31-2013, 09:17 PM   #60
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I think the drivetrain loss on this car (RWD and 6MT) is closer to 15%.

Who said it was fixed? Where are you coming up with this?
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      11-09-2013, 09:20 PM   #61
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Finally got some dyno time on a trustworthy dyno. It's lower than on a Mustang, but I was expecting that. I'm content with the results for a stock car.

SAE Correction:


STD Correction:


Uncorrected:


Mustang Dyno from TMS in Auburn

Last edited by MFL; 11-09-2013 at 09:28 PM.
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      11-09-2013, 09:56 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MFL View Post
Finally got some dyno time on a trustworthy dyno. It's lower than on a Mustang, but I was expecting that. I'm content with the results for a stock car.
Mustang is indeed much lower than Dynojet. You can confirm this with results in the Dyno Database (www.s65dynos.com). Here's an article you might find helpful. This article dyno's two cars, each on Mustang and Dynojet.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=535345

Car-1 Mustang: 463whp, Dynojet: 513whp
Car-2 Mustang: 483whp, Dynojet: 529whp
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      11-09-2013, 10:03 PM   #63
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I just didn't/don't think that Mustang was accurate and I think I confirmed that with these new runs.

The only change I have made to the car in between runs was upgrade to 240e.
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      11-09-2013, 11:09 PM   #64
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I just made 501/536 AWHP/AWTQ on a Mustang AWD-linked dyno yesterday (Cobb SoCal) on my bone stock 997.2 Turbo S

Wonder what that would have been on a dyno jet?...like 550? I guess now I know how this car traps 130's stock.
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      11-09-2013, 11:45 PM   #65
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I'm curious which tools manufacturers use for the their final HP/TQ numbers? BMW is usually very conservative. Looking at MFL's numbers, 358hp's would put a drivetrain loss at about 16%. (415 hp's which is close to BMW's claims).
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      11-10-2013, 12:03 AM   #66
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I need this 240e software! Unfortunately, I can't think of a reason to have the dealer do it. :/
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