Major problem with warranty... help please!

crash32 · 10-22-2013, 04:06 PM

About a week ago my power steering started to make a whining and groaning noise so I took it in today to my local BMW dealership to have it looked at.

They call me a couple hours later to tell me that the power steering pump is out and on top of that it seems as if there has been TRAUMA to the rack and pinion and ball joint. They said that the ball joint is damaged and needs to be replaced. They said that it seems as if I hit a curb (yea right) and it has been severed???

They quoted me $2,890 for the repairs and I am furious. I have babied the car and never hit gone into a pot hole or let alone a curb!!! I feel as if a part fails under normal driving circumstances that it should be covered under warranty... period!

I have never tracked the car and have babied it and for them to accuse me of causing "TRAUMA" to the car pisses me off. It is obvious that the part was faulty and failed over time. What can I do at this point!? Do they assume that because I have a M3 that I am going to drive it wreckless therefore if something is broken that it was due to the user??????

808@702 · 10-22-2013, 04:52 PM

I would ask to see the "trauma". And request supporting evidence that the damage was caused by you. Sounds more like a courtroom.

AdonM3 · 10-22-2013, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 808@702

I would ask to see the "trauma". And request supporting evidence that the damage was caused by you. Sounds more like a courtroom.

I agree, if they refuse to fix your car and the damaged wasnt caused by you, then its time to lawyer up because thats some bs.

paddy335 · 10-22-2013, 05:10 PM

If you supposedly hit a curb hard anough to damage the steering there would be evidence on the rims.

Go straight to the Dealer Principal and don't take no for an answer.

Get BMW involved.

Look up your consumer rights too under the warranty T's & C's, and under whatever US laws are applicable.

Throw all that at them.

track_warrior · 10-22-2013, 05:30 PM

Besides bent wheels your alignment would be thrown pretty badly and you would have bent some suspension parts if it was strong enough to damage your PS. I call bull crap from the dealer, call BMW of NA.

J5isalive · 10-22-2013, 05:36 PM

Did you buy the car used? Maybe it is a issue that is just now surfacing...

BMW Dealerships love warranty work, they get reimbursed for it. Contrary to popular belief not every dealership is trying to screw you (which seems to be the consensus on car forums).

See what proof they have to offer, they arent going to claim 'trauma' with no proof, i'm sure they will be happy to show you.

Dont listen to everyone above and go spouting off about getting a lawyer.

Hopefully this situation gets resolved at the dealership and some talking with your Service Adviser will come up with a fix that is good for all parties.

J5isalive · 10-22-2013, 05:42 PM

Ok i am back with more proof of what i was affraid of...

This is likely a situation caused by your previous owner:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...9#post14393839

Clearly your car came to you a little modded, probably driven pretty hard. Maybe it was tracked? Maybe they hit a rumble strip a bit to hard.

Especially since you have only had the car a few months, this may just be the first gremlin that presents itself.

You have babied your car, but perhaps the previous owner did not.

Good luck.

socalm3lover · 10-22-2013, 05:57 PM

You really need to look at the parts and understand why they are taking their position. There is a regional guy that should be involved. I doubt that they arbitrarily declared the damage done by you/others. They get reimbursed/paid for any warranty expenditures, I don't see why they would try to charge you for something that should be under warranty. You should be able to see any physical damage and I can well envision how it might happen without involving the rims (low parking curb, etc).

I would cool the "scorched earth" attitude until find you need that attitude. Starting that way will burn all good will before you really understand the situation.

John

gatorfast · 10-22-2013, 06:13 PM

Try another dealership?

e-solo · 10-22-2013, 06:27 PM

Ask to see evidence, once you know they have none, talk to a manager inside the dealer. Threaten to involve BMW NA before you threaten with lawyers. Usually that will make it happen. Offer up logical scenarios like the ones mentioned above. If the evidence does not support the "trauma" then its clear to both parties this is a warranty issue. Being aggressive and using big threats right off the bat wont get you anywhere. Use finesse first, then use the big guns if that doesn't work.

W Cole · 10-22-2013, 06:55 PM

BMW corporate will do whatever they can to avoid paying a warranty claim. It is my experience that if the dealers suspect it may be even the smallest of issue to get BMW to cover they will NOT go to bat for you and will simply deny the claim because it is not worth the hassle.

Ask to meet with a BMW field representative and go over the issue. I believe this is your right under your warranty contract, at least it is with Mercedes. The dealers really don't like having to do this so perhaps just mentioning it will make them change their tune.

If all else fails, go through arbitration with the BBB. It is a very easy process and it sounds like you have a slam dunk case. BMW will probably offer to settle immediately as they did with me.

W Cole · 10-22-2013, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J5isalive

Ok i am back with more proof of what i was affraid of...

This is likely a situation caused by your previous owner:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...9#post14393839

Clearly your car came to you a little modded, probably driven pretty hard. Maybe it was tracked? Maybe they hit a rumble strip a bit to hard.

Especially since you have only had the car a few months, this may just be the first gremlin that presents itself.

You have babied your car, but perhaps the previous owner did not.

Good luck.

I don't see how lowering the car would cause this..

AlphaAlpineM6 · 10-22-2013, 07:05 PM

Take it to another dealer. Don't bother going back and forth w them

crash32 · 10-22-2013, 07:10 PM

If I take it to another dealer, would they not be able to see on record that I just took it to another dealer and see that they would not cover it under warranty? I am assuming that they would see that information and simply say "Yep, we wont cover it either".

Prince_of_Persia · 10-22-2013, 07:35 PM

Since you bought the car used and there was a damage on it (as you stated on your other thread) when you purchased it, you definitely cannot claim the car has been babied. Actually since your car came with performance mods, most likely it has been driven hard. My advice is to be polite and ask the service advisor for their proof, but unfortunately in this situation I think they are right.

Good luck.

Prince_of_Persia · 10-22-2013, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J5isalive

Did you buy the car used? Maybe it is a issue that is just now surfacing...

BMW Dealerships love warranty work, they get reimbursed for it. Contrary to popular belief not every dealership is trying to screw you (which seems to be the consensus on car forums).

See what proof they have to offer, they arent going to claim 'trauma' with no proof, i'm sure they will be happy to show you.

Dont listen to everyone above and go spouting off about getting a lawyer.

Hopefully this situation gets resolved at the dealership and some talking with your Service Adviser will come up with a fix that is good for all parties.

+1 on BMW dealerships love warranty work. They get paid for it.

crash32 · 10-22-2013, 07:51 PM

The issue that I am having right now is the impact that they claim that caused the damage to the rack and pinion occurred well over 5 months ago as the BMW dealership zip tied the belly pan back up to the car when I brought it in 5 months ago for it's first service. I am not a mechanic, but I have a hard time believing that just 1 week ago I start having problems due to the impact (at least 5 months ago) supposedly completely ripping off the sleeve of the rack and pinion. But then again...... I am no mechanic.

J5isalive · 10-22-2013, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W Cole

I don't see how lowering the car would cause this..

I don't see how you can't tell what I was inferring....

I'll spell it out, the OP didn't even notice the car was lowered when he bought it... What are the chances he saw damage to a steering part?

This was a previously modded m3, the chances are pretty good it was driven hard and the previous owner probably caused this damage.

OP, did u buy from a dealer or private seller? Perhaps go back to the original dealer explain the situation and they may help u out by not charging labor or giving you parts at cost.

Also look into replacing the damaged parts yourself.

Good luck, I feel for you I had a similar experience about 10 years ago with an Mr2 I bought.

Yvette · 10-22-2013, 08:25 PM

ask for evidence seriously, wow
Or go to another dealership.

Lorde · 10-22-2013, 09:27 PM

This thread should help:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=904311

kenwelch · 10-23-2013, 08:11 PM

This applies to both of your posts.

The leak at the steering rack boots likely caused the fluid level in the P/S reservoir to drop. With a low fluid level the P/S pump will begin to suck air under some conditions. The pump will make plenty of noise!!! You will decide to have it checked or check the fluid level yourself. It is easy to check the level.

The amount of fluid loss would not be much (maybe 1 cup) before the pump lets you know there is a problem. It may have taken 5-6 months to leak enough to drop the level to the "noise making" point.

My suggestion pick-up the correct fluid Pentosin CHF 11S at Kragen / O'Rilley's, they had it for about $22.99 per liter. Go to the dealer pick-up your car and pop the hood and pour the correct amount into the reservoir. Start the engine and the noise will be gone. Look under the vehicle to see is the fluid coming right back out. No leak - drive your car and monitor the fluid regularly. Eventually you will have to fix the leak problem.

If the fluid is running out from the leak fast, give them back the vehicle for the repair and go home to cry while you wait for the bill.

I know that the pump will make very ugly noises when the P/S fluid level is low from personal experience. If you didn't drive the vehicle for weeks with the pump "moaning" there will be no damage to the pump.

10-22-2013, 04:06 PM	#1
crash32 Private First Class 46 Rep 192 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: NC iTrader: (0)	Major problem with warranty... help please! About a week ago my power steering started to make a whining and groaning noise so I took it in today to my local BMW dealership to have it looked at. They call me a couple hours later to tell me that the power steering pump is out and on top of that it seems as if there has been TRAUMA to the rack and pinion and ball joint. They said that the ball joint is damaged and needs to be replaced. They said that it seems as if I hit a curb (yea right) and it has been severed??? They quoted me $2,890 for the repairs and I am furious. I have babied the car and never hit gone into a pot hole or let alone a curb!!! I feel as if a part fails under normal driving circumstances that it should be covered under warranty... period! I have never tracked the car and have babied it and for them to accuse me of causing "TRAUMA" to the car pisses me off. It is obvious that the part was faulty and failed over time. What can I do at this point!? Do they assume that because I have a M3 that I am going to drive it wreckless therefore if something is broken that it was due to the user??????
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10-22-2013, 04:52 PM	#2
808@702 8th BMW, 520th Surfboard 494 Rep 1,215 Posts Drives: My girlfriends crazy! Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Las Vegas, Nv. and Honolulu, Hi. and Seattle Wa. iTrader: (0)	I would ask to see the "trauma". And request supporting evidence that the damage was caused by you. Sounds more like a courtroom.
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10-22-2013, 05:10 PM	#4
paddy335 Major 66 Rep 1,131 Posts Drives: M140i;X5 40d Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: New Zealand iTrader: (0)	If you supposedly hit a curb hard anough to damage the steering there would be evidence on the rims. Go straight to the Dealer Principal and don't take no for an answer. Get BMW involved. Look up your consumer rights too under the warranty T's & C's, and under whatever US laws are applicable. Throw all that at them.
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10-22-2013, 05:30 PM	#5
track_warrior Captain 98 Rep 728 Posts Drives: F80 M3 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Merida, Yucatan iTrader: (1)	Besides bent wheels your alignment would be thrown pretty badly and you would have bent some suspension parts if it was strong enough to damage your PS. I call bull crap from the dealer, call BMW of NA. __________________ Compensating a heavy car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up...
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10-22-2013, 05:36 PM	#6
J5isalive Private First Class 49 Rep 132 Posts Drives: '20 M2C, '15 GT3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Alpharetta Ga iTrader: (1)	Did you buy the car used? Maybe it is a issue that is just now surfacing... BMW Dealerships love warranty work, they get reimbursed for it. Contrary to popular belief not every dealership is trying to screw you (which seems to be the consensus on car forums). See what proof they have to offer, they arent going to claim 'trauma' with no proof, i'm sure they will be happy to show you. Dont listen to everyone above and go spouting off about getting a lawyer. Hopefully this situation gets resolved at the dealership and some talking with your Service Adviser will come up with a fix that is good for all parties.
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10-22-2013, 05:42 PM	#7
J5isalive Private First Class 49 Rep 132 Posts Drives: '20 M2C, '15 GT3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Alpharetta Ga iTrader: (1)	Ok i am back with more proof of what i was affraid of... This is likely a situation caused by your previous owner: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...9#post14393839 Clearly your car came to you a little modded, probably driven pretty hard. Maybe it was tracked? Maybe they hit a rumble strip a bit to hard. Especially since you have only had the car a few months, this may just be the first gremlin that presents itself. You have babied your car, but perhaps the previous owner did not. Good luck.
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10-22-2013, 05:57 PM	#8
socalm3lover Second Lieutenant 19 Rep 226 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: May 2008 Location: South Carolina iTrader: (0)	You really need to look at the parts and understand why they are taking their position. There is a regional guy that should be involved. I doubt that they arbitrarily declared the damage done by you/others. They get reimbursed/paid for any warranty expenditures, I don't see why they would try to charge you for something that should be under warranty. You should be able to see any physical damage and I can well envision how it might happen without involving the rims (low parking curb, etc). I would cool the "scorched earth" attitude until find you need that attitude. Starting that way will burn all good will before you really understand the situation. John
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10-22-2013, 06:13 PM	#9
gatorfast Major General 4995 Rep 6,862 Posts Drives: 718 Cayman Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SoFla iTrader: (4)	Try another dealership?
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10-22-2013, 06:27 PM	#10
e-solo First Lieutenant 14 Rep 347 Posts Drives: e46 M3 Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: So Cal iTrader: (0)	Ask to see evidence, once you know they have none, talk to a manager inside the dealer. Threaten to involve BMW NA before you threaten with lawyers. Usually that will make it happen. Offer up logical scenarios like the ones mentioned above. If the evidence does not support the "trauma" then its clear to both parties this is a warranty issue. Being aggressive and using big threats right off the bat wont get you anywhere. Use finesse first, then use the big guns if that doesn't work.
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10-22-2013, 06:55 PM	#11
W Cole Major 145 Rep 1,130 Posts Drives: 2009 M3 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Newport Coast, CA iTrader: (5)	BMW corporate will do whatever they can to avoid paying a warranty claim. It is my experience that if the dealers suspect it may be even the smallest of issue to get BMW to cover they will NOT go to bat for you and will simply deny the claim because it is not worth the hassle. Ask to meet with a BMW field representative and go over the issue. I believe this is your right under your warranty contract, at least it is with Mercedes. The dealers really don't like having to do this so perhaps just mentioning it will make them change their tune. If all else fails, go through arbitration with the BBB. It is a very easy process and it sounds like you have a slam dunk case. BMW will probably offer to settle immediately as they did with me.
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10-22-2013, 07:05 PM	#13
AlphaAlpineM6 First Lieutenant 37 Rep 380 Posts Drives: 2014 BMW M6 & 2012 AMG CLS63 Join Date: May 2013 Location: Planet Earth iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW M6 Coupé [10.00] 2012 CLS63 AMG [0.00]	Take it to another dealer. Don't bother going back and forth w them __________________ 2008 M3 Sedan + catless + Tune 2012 CLS63 AMG 2014 M6 Coupe + catless + KW V3 2015 Porsche GT3 , 2015 M3, all stock, 1/1 Space Grey
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10-22-2013, 07:10 PM	#14
crash32 Private First Class 46 Rep 192 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: NC iTrader: (0)	If I take it to another dealer, would they not be able to see on record that I just took it to another dealer and see that they would not cover it under warranty? I am assuming that they would see that information and simply say "Yep, we wont cover it either".
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10-22-2013, 07:35 PM	#15
Prince_of_Persia Colonel 248 Rep 2,513 Posts Drives: 6MT E92 M3 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Vancouver, BC iTrader: (1)	Since you bought the car used and there was a damage on it (as you stated on your other thread) when you purchased it, you definitely cannot claim the car has been babied. Actually since your car came with performance mods, most likely it has been driven hard. My advice is to be polite and ask the service advisor for their proof, but unfortunately in this situation I think they are right. Good luck.
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10-22-2013, 07:51 PM	#17
crash32 Private First Class 46 Rep 192 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: NC iTrader: (0)	The issue that I am having right now is the impact that they claim that caused the damage to the rack and pinion occurred well over 5 months ago as the BMW dealership zip tied the belly pan back up to the car when I brought it in 5 months ago for it's first service. I am not a mechanic, but I have a hard time believing that just 1 week ago I start having problems due to the impact (at least 5 months ago) supposedly completely ripping off the sleeve of the rack and pinion. But then again...... I am no mechanic.
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10-22-2013, 08:25 PM	#19
Yvette Major General 761 Rep 7,408 Posts Drives: M Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Vancouver iTrader: (19)	ask for evidence seriously, wow Or go to another dealership.
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10-22-2013, 09:27 PM	#20
Lorde Ya ya ya, I am Lorde, ya ya! 266 Rep 2,772 Posts Drives: E90 M3, 2015 SQ5 Join Date: May 2011 Location: Snig iTrader: (10) Garage List 2008 BMW M3 E90 [0.00]	This thread should help: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=904311
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10-23-2013, 08:11 PM	#21
kenwelch Lieutenant 96 Rep 545 Posts Drives: 2008 E92 M3 M-DCT & 2017 440GC Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mission Viejo, CA iTrader: (0)	This applies to both of your posts. The leak at the steering rack boots likely caused the fluid level in the P/S reservoir to drop. With a low fluid level the P/S pump will begin to suck air under some conditions. The pump will make plenty of noise!!! You will decide to have it checked or check the fluid level yourself. It is easy to check the level. The amount of fluid loss would not be much (maybe 1 cup) before the pump lets you know there is a problem. It may have taken 5-6 months to leak enough to drop the level to the "noise making" point. My suggestion pick-up the correct fluid Pentosin CHF 11S at Kragen / O'Rilley's, they had it for about $22.99 per liter. Go to the dealer pick-up your car and pop the hood and pour the correct amount into the reservoir. Start the engine and the noise will be gone. Look under the vehicle to see is the fluid coming right back out. No leak - drive your car and monitor the fluid regularly. Eventually you will have to fix the leak problem. If the fluid is running out from the leak fast, give them back the vehicle for the repair and go home to cry while you wait for the bill. I know that the pump will make very ugly noises when the P/S fluid level is low from personal experience. If you didn't drive the vehicle for weeks with the pump "moaning" there will be no damage to the pump.
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