Is there a latch for putting a car seat in the middle of the back seat?

BK · 07-23-2009, 04:22 PM

Another opinion on it: "Even though it is possible, it is not recommended that you install a LATCH carseat in the center of a rear seat by using the "inner" lower anchors intended for outboard positions unless the owner's manual states that you are allowed to do so. This recommendation may change after further testing, but at this time consult your manual for how to use your vehicle's LATCH system."

http://www.car-safety.org/latch.html

IMO - use the seatbelt for the middle seat, LATCH for outer seats. Owner's manual doesn't seem to say one way or the other. FWIW, our Honda Odyssey manual specifically says do not use LATCH on the middle seat.

FrenchBoy · 07-23-2009, 04:45 PM

I have the Recaro Young Sport and it fits fine in the middle seat of my E90 M3. There is not an huge amount of extra strap length to make it go from one LATCH anchor to the other but it's fine.

I am a bit unclear why the "the "inner" lower anchors intended for outboard positions" would not be adequate to use for the middle position.

PorscheRacer · 07-23-2009, 07:31 PM

I've read the reasons why you aren't supposed to use both Latch and seatbelts at the same time and my educated analysis dismisses them FOR MY PARTICULAR APPLICATION.

Actually in the wife's Volvo, we use only the belt in the center because it is more secure and the latch spacing is too wide.

In the M3, neither the Latch nor the seatbelt provide the required "less than 1 inch movement in any direction" by themselves but the combination does a pretty good job of providing a steady platform.

I don't buy the argument that the seat could fail by being stressed in both areas at once. If the seat is designed to be stressed to the maximum in either the latch area or the seatbelt area, stressing it (theoretically) half in both areas is not going to cause a failure.

I'm an engineer and I do stress calculations all the time so I'm not just shooting from the hip.

I don't buy the flex argument either. In my race cars I wear 5 and 6 point harnesses pulled as hard as possible for a reason. You don't want the body moving around any more than necessary in an impact.

The real answer is that no one has tested the Latch and belts together so no one actually knows the effect of using both. The argument against is fear of the unknown but I don't feel like either alone provides adequate support in the E90 so my fear is the opposite.

Hopefully none of us will ever have to test this.

roofone · 07-24-2009, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrenchBoy

I am a bit unclear why the "the "inner" lower anchors intended for outboard positions" would not be adequate to use for the middle position.

It's discussed on page 1 of this thread. Relevant quote:

Quote:

The distance between the lower anchors is defined as 280mm (11") apart...when you use the inner two anchor points from the outer seats for a center seat install, the anchors [may exceed the] 11". Do you know or can you say with conviction that the anchors were designed and tested with a force load that is different than the LATCH standard? I don't and can't, so whenever I use the middle seat, I always use the seat belt -- why chance it?

Bottom line is that JohnnyRoaster measured the distance for the middle and it was 11.25", so could be close enough to the 11" to be safe in the E90.

rmmcdaniel · 07-28-2009, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PorscheRacer

Hopefully none of us will ever have to test this.

Amen brother! Glad I don't have kids yet as this thread is stressing me out just reading it!!

marepa · 09-24-2012, 02:21 PM

I aslo don't understand how using both belts and latch could be wrong .. especially if they don't overlap/block one the other.

I don't like (seen on vids) how much movement there is on the carseat base.. I found that the ISOFIX solution provides bit more stability ...

first kid on the way, about to order carseat but I'm bit scared .. I'm coming from Europe and what they offer there seems so much better/safer to me

davesaddiction · 09-24-2012, 02:49 PM

LATCH is so far superior to using the belt...

The key is to climb into the car, and, as awkward as it is, put your knee (and full weight) in the car seat (or base) so that you can pull those straps tight. Some buckles are better designed than others and make it easier.

I bought some inexpensive black seat covers from an auto parts store to put between the car seats and the leather, to try to prevent some of the denting/scratching.

apecush · 09-25-2012, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marepa

I aslo don't understand how using both belts and latch could be wrong .. especially if they don't overlap/block one the other.

I don't like (seen on vids) how much movement there is on the carseat base.. I found that the ISOFIX solution provides bit more stability ...

first kid on the way, about to order carseat but I'm bit scared .. I'm coming from Europe and what they offer there seems so much better/safer to me

My little girl (now 3 months old) rides in the centre of my E90. The seat uses only the LATCH anchors, and works perfectly (Peg Perego seat). Extremely stable fore/aft and pretty good lateral stability. The seat certainly doesn't sway side-to-side. Bit of a pain in the ass to get in and out of the car though.

I recommend the peg perego seat - it's got a relatively small base, easy to remove, and looks good. Bonus is that they are made in Italy, not China like I imagine the majority of other seats are made.

electronspeeder · 09-25-2012, 01:17 PM

My little one (<6 months) sits in the middle of the back seat. I have the car seat base connected to the LATCH system in the middle (one anchor from each side). I also measured the distance, comparing the driver's side, passenger's side, and using the middle latches, and they are almost identical (<1" difference). Because of this I felt safe that it was within designed limits to put there.

I had a car seat consultant show me how to properly install these things, as most people install them incorrectly. The LATCH system is NOT any safer than a regular seatbelt system, it's only supposed to be more convenient. Which.. it's not really. As an engineer, I think the LATCH system is terrible. Why create a whole new standard if it's not any safer and still allow most people to install incorrectly?!

Like a previous poster said, you have to put your body weight on the base while tightening the straps (belt, or LATCH). The part that anchors against the seat should have very little movement. The part that's away from the seat (unanchored side) should have <1" movement in all directions. Make sure the angle is correct too, your seat should have an indicator somewhere.

Also, if you're in colder weather, your child should never have much padding between him/herself and the seatbelts. So don't never wear a puffy jacket, or use a BundleMe as they are unsafe. I use a Jolly Jumper Sneak-a-peek if it's really cold out. Also, don't hang things on the car seat when driving around, as they become projectiles in a crash.

davesaddiction · 09-25-2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by electronspeeder

The LATCH system is NOT any safer than a regular seatbelt system, it's only supposed to be more convenient.

Just from personal experience, I've never been able to get my kids' car seats as secure with the regular belt as I can with the LATCH. YMMV

marepa · 10-05-2012, 12:36 PM

LATCH is imo response to European ISOFIX .. and unlike LATCH, ISOFIX is much easier to use, you just "click" it into the place .. plus it's connected firmly to the base, so there is no wobble or movements what so ever.

I was thinking to buy ISOFIX seat in europe and use it here ... but I'm curious if that could be a legal problem, since ISOFIX might not be certified to be used in US.

07-23-2009, 04:22 PM	#23
BK Smiling politely 165 Rep 7,931 Posts Drives: 330i Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Washington DC iTrader: (0) Garage List 2006 330i [9.00]	Another opinion on it: "Even though it is possible, it is not recommended that you install a LATCH carseat in the center of a rear seat by using the "inner" lower anchors intended for outboard positions unless the owner's manual states that you are allowed to do so. This recommendation may change after further testing, but at this time consult your manual for how to use your vehicle's LATCH system." http://www.car-safety.org/latch.html IMO - use the seatbelt for the middle seat, LATCH for outer seats. Owner's manual doesn't seem to say one way or the other. FWIW, our Honda Odyssey manual specifically says do not use LATCH on the middle seat. __________________ E90 330i Black Sapphire 6MT \| 991.1 C4 Platinum Silver 7MT
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07-23-2009, 04:45 PM	#24
FrenchBoy Lieutenant Colonel 234 Rep 1,508 Posts Drives: '16 F80 M3 Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Seattle, WA iTrader: (0)	I have the Recaro Young Sport and it fits fine in the middle seat of my E90 M3. There is not an huge amount of extra strap length to make it go from one LATCH anchor to the other but it's fine. I am a bit unclear why the "the "inner" lower anchors intended for outboard positions" would not be adequate to use for the middle position. __________________ Current: 2016 F80 M3 6-Speed \| SO \| AB XT1 \| ZCP \| M Performance Suspension \| GC Camber Plates Previous: 2009 E90 M3
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07-23-2009, 07:31 PM	#25
PorscheRacer Private First Class 12 Rep 138 Posts Drives: 08 M3 Sedan Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Bay Area CA iTrader: (0)	I've read the reasons why you aren't supposed to use both Latch and seatbelts at the same time and my educated analysis dismisses them FOR MY PARTICULAR APPLICATION. Actually in the wife's Volvo, we use only the belt in the center because it is more secure and the latch spacing is too wide. In the M3, neither the Latch nor the seatbelt provide the required "less than 1 inch movement in any direction" by themselves but the combination does a pretty good job of providing a steady platform. I don't buy the argument that the seat could fail by being stressed in both areas at once. If the seat is designed to be stressed to the maximum in either the latch area or the seatbelt area, stressing it (theoretically) half in both areas is not going to cause a failure. I'm an engineer and I do stress calculations all the time so I'm not just shooting from the hip. I don't buy the flex argument either. In my race cars I wear 5 and 6 point harnesses pulled as hard as possible for a reason. You don't want the body moving around any more than necessary in an impact. The real answer is that no one has tested the Latch and belts together so no one actually knows the effect of using both. The argument against is fear of the unknown but I don't feel like either alone provides adequate support in the E90 so my fear is the opposite. Hopefully none of us will ever have to test this.
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09-24-2012, 02:21 PM	#28
marepa Enlisted Member 1 Rep 41 Posts Drives: 2013 E92 Space Gray MT Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (0)	I aslo don't understand how using both belts and latch could be wrong .. especially if they don't overlap/block one the other. I don't like (seen on vids) how much movement there is on the carseat base.. I found that the ISOFIX solution provides bit more stability ... first kid on the way, about to order carseat but I'm bit scared .. I'm coming from Europe and what they offer there seems so much better/safer to me
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09-24-2012, 02:49 PM	#29
davesaddiction is fast cars 391 Rep 2,137 Posts Drives: '08 E90 M3 6MT SSII BPM Stg II Join Date: May 2012 Location: Oklahoma iTrader: (0)	LATCH is so far superior to using the belt... The key is to climb into the car, and, as awkward as it is, put your knee (and full weight) in the car seat (or base) so that you can pull those straps tight. Some buckles are better designed than others and make it easier. I bought some inexpensive black seat covers from an auto parts store to put between the car seats and the leather, to try to prevent some of the denting/scratching. __________________ Daddy's Rocket Sled! Clarkson: "It is... pretty much perfect... Why don't I have one of these cars?" Harris: "The saloon is definitely the M3 of choice."
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09-25-2012, 01:17 PM	#31
electronspeeder Private 0 Rep 53 Posts Drives: 2009 E90 BMW M3 Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Ann Arbor, MI iTrader: (1)	My little one (<6 months) sits in the middle of the back seat. I have the car seat base connected to the LATCH system in the middle (one anchor from each side). I also measured the distance, comparing the driver's side, passenger's side, and using the middle latches, and they are almost identical (<1" difference). Because of this I felt safe that it was within designed limits to put there. I had a car seat consultant show me how to properly install these things, as most people install them incorrectly. The LATCH system is NOT any safer than a regular seatbelt system, it's only supposed to be more convenient. Which.. it's not really. As an engineer, I think the LATCH system is terrible. Why create a whole new standard if it's not any safer and still allow most people to install incorrectly?! Like a previous poster said, you have to put your body weight on the base while tightening the straps (belt, or LATCH). The part that anchors against the seat should have very little movement. The part that's away from the seat (unanchored side) should have <1" movement in all directions. Make sure the angle is correct too, your seat should have an indicator somewhere. Also, if you're in colder weather, your child should never have much padding between him/herself and the seatbelts. So don't never wear a puffy jacket, or use a BundleMe as they are unsafe. I use a Jolly Jumper Sneak-a-peek if it's really cold out. Also, don't hang things on the car seat when driving around, as they become projectiles in a crash.
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10-05-2012, 12:36 PM	#33
marepa Enlisted Member 1 Rep 41 Posts Drives: 2013 E92 Space Gray MT Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: San Francisco iTrader: (0)	LATCH is imo response to European ISOFIX .. and unlike LATCH, ISOFIX is much easier to use, you just "click" it into the place .. plus it's connected firmly to the base, so there is no wobble or movements what so ever. I was thinking to buy ISOFIX seat in europe and use it here ... but I'm curious if that could be a legal problem, since ISOFIX might not be certified to be used in US.
	Appreciate 0 Quote