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      10-30-2019, 01:11 PM   #23
RocketTR
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It's ALL about tires gents.
Tires used are identical, according to the video.
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      10-30-2019, 11:27 PM   #24
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It's ALL about tires gents.
Tires used are identical, according to the video.
I think he is referring to the importance of proper winter tires.
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      10-31-2019, 07:10 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikolas View Post
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Originally Posted by RocketTR View Post
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Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx View Post
It's ALL about tires gents.
Tires used are identical, according to the video.
I think he is referring to the importance of proper winter tires.
Sure but who says you can't have both? : Every single winter RWD vs AWD discussion includes someone professing that good tires are more important than drivetrain but nothing stops you from having great tires AND good AWD. I have had great winter tires in my RWD BMW and getting stuck is still possible. If you run that risk often then maybe AWD is a good choice for you.
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      11-01-2019, 09:11 AM   #26
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I had a S4 with quattro and now have a 440 with xdrive. Sorry to say this but the Quattro with sport diff wins out outright. It just feels better with the mechanical diff especially when driving fast in the snow. More consistency is the key.
Dry performance is better on the BMW due to balance but not the xdrive.
The A4 has the haldex and is similiar system to BMW so to get real AWD Quattro you need to get S4 or RS4 and the sport diff makes a huge difference.
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      11-01-2019, 09:16 AM   #27
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It's ALL about tires gents.
This. AWD systems help, but honestly do very little here.
Put winter tires on a RWD and AWD car and it is no competition in the snow or dry. Why do you think BMW put AWD on M5. Not because of customer demand but because it became a necessity once you reach a certain amount of power and you can't put wide tires on a sedan like you can on a sports car to provide extra grip.
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      11-01-2019, 09:16 AM   #28
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thought new quattro is no longer mechanical?
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      11-02-2019, 09:14 PM   #29
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spuntyb View Post
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Originally Posted by XxThe_RemedyXx View Post
It's ALL about tires gents.
This. AWD systems help, but honestly do very little here.
Put winter tires on a RWD and AWD car and it is no competition in the snow or dry. Why do you think BMW put AWD on M5. Not because of customer demand but because it became a necessity once you reach a certain amount of power and you can't put wide tires on a sedan like you can on a sports car to provide extra grip.
Let's make this simpler:

RWD with summer rubber = undriveable in snow
AWD with summer rubber = barely drivable/undriveable in snow

RWD with winter rubber = driveable in snow
AWD with winter rubber = driveable in snow

The difference is staggering.

Does AWD help? Sure, but not *nearly* as much as the proper rubber and sizing of wheels and tires. And comparing different AWD systems is like comparing apples to oranges. There are so many variables that contribute to each, saying one is better in snow than the other is silly. If you like one over another, great, but that's personal preference based on how *you* drive.

To wit:
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      11-02-2019, 09:14 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spuntyb View Post
Let's make this simpler:

RWD with summer rubber = undriveable in snow
AWD with summer rubber = barely drivable/undriveable in snow

RWD with winter rubber = driveable in snow
AWD with winter rubber = driveable in snow

The difference is staggering.

Does AWD help? Sure, but not *nearly* as much as the proper rubber and sizing of wheels and tires. And comparing different AWD systems is like comparing apples to oranges. There are so many variables that contribute to each, saying one is better in snow than the other is silly. If you like one over another, great, but that's personal preference based on how *you* drive.
Yes, that was simpler. I've explained it in the past as:
RWD in the snow with A/S tires, at best 2 out of 10
AWD in the show with A/S tires, at best 2.5 out of 10

When cornering or braking, the advantage of AWD with A/S tires over RWD is nearly negligible in the snow. Not 100% discount-able, but nearly.

(The two winter tires I've had experience with were the Continental Xtreme Winter Contact and the Michelin X-Ice)
RWD in the snow with winter tires, 7 to 8 out of 10
(7 - Yugo, 8-BMW with (approaching) 50/50 weight distribution)
AWD in the snow with winter tires, 8 to 9 out of 10

A friend had a Mercedes C-Class, manual transmission; with the Continental Tires if she wasn't pushing snow with her spoiler she could go.
I have an older 525i, also RWD, and with the Michelin X-ice tires I could run circles around any AWD SUV (or anything else) with A/S tires.

Here's my question though (slightly off topic, but within the AWD topic); given that 98% of my driving is done at temperatures above freezing, mostly in the dry, obviously it rains on occasion. Snow that stays on the road for more than 10 minutes: maybe snow lasts for two days, every other year.

For non-snow, non-freezing conditions, 99% of the time for me, am I wrong to refuse to buy a FWD car, or any AWD car that doesn't put at least 50% of torque to the rear wheels, 99% of the time? Isn't driving a car that pushes (you in the right direction) rather than pulls, always more pleasant to drive, by a large margin?
Subaru Outback excepted, at least they have a sensible split - and for under $40K brand new it seems a better than OK car, for cheap.

Would any engineer, given a blank sheet of paper and no government (CAFE) regulations, ever design a FWD car?

I'm looking for a RWD (more or less) SUV for my wife that might sniff 30 mpg on the hwy, not too small, maybe $50K max. All the choices in the world (well, the US) seem to be as follows: BMW X3, Mercedes GLC300.

Aside: Maybe I should start a thread listing stupid reasons I've read for FWD, or FWD biased AWD. My favorite:

If you go off the road in a RWD car you are likely to slide off sideways, and hitting a tree with your passenger side door is worse than if (torque steer helps) you go straight off the road - and hit the tree head on!
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