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      09-05-2017, 01:49 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartaEvolution View Post
We have not tested both of these kits, so I'm not trying to argue, but I am curious how you came to this conclusion. According to this German magazine test from December 2014, the PFC kit doesn't even beat the StopTech ST60, let alone the Trophy kit.
We've all seen the mag. Fact is a BBK does not improve your braking distances vs a well maintained OEM system if all other variables are equal.

Had this test done 50 back to back tests from 140-0 I'm sure the results would be very different.

You know what the replicability criteria for the 991 911 Cup car brake contract was, right? Only PFC was able to meet it
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      09-05-2017, 02:08 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
We've all seen the mag. Fact is a BBK does not improve your braking distances vs a well maintained OEM system if all other variables are equal.

Had this test done 50 back to back tests from 140-0 I'm sure the results would be very different.

You know what the replicability criteria for the 991 911 Cup car brake contract was, right? Only PFC was able to meet it
According to the OP of that thread, each test procedure was conducted 20 times for each BBK (but I don't read / understand German, so I cannot be sure sure).

I am not trying to attack anyone's opinions or incite an argument, I was just asking user M3SQRD what about the PFC calipers and rotors made them the easy choice for them. We're in the business of making better brakes, and understanding people's preferences is a part of that.

I am not aware of the replicability criteria was for the 991 cup car, please share.

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      09-05-2017, 02:25 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartaEvolution View Post
We have not tested both of these kits, so I'm not trying to argue, but I am curious how you came to this conclusion. According to this German magazine test from December 2014, the PFC kit doesn't even beat the StopTech ST60, let alone the Trophy kit.
The test that had Brembo brakes installed incorrectly and they used a mix of street & race pads?

Well, if you must know, I've used AP, ST and PFC kits on different M3s over the years (I've been going to the track for almost 30 years) so it's based on my own personal experience.
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      09-05-2017, 02:55 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3SQRD View Post
The test that had Brembo brakes installed incorrectly and they used a mix of street & race pads?

Well, if you must know, I've used AP, ST and PFC kits on different M3s over the years (I've been going to the track for almost 30 years) so it's based on my own personal experience.
Haha that's a great point, poor pedal feel from any kit, let alone the biggest name in the business, would call their install procedures into question, but they did update the post to report Brembo had supplied the wrong kit, which was the reason for the poor performance. The test did also state they used whatever pads came with the kit with TUV certification though, which seemed fair for an 'out of the box' comparison focusing on consistency vs all out performance.

Either way, brakes are as much about the numbers as they are about the drivers perception and preference, so in those regard it's impossible to conduct an unbiased brake test, and for those same reasons all insight and feedback is appreciated.
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      09-06-2017, 06:29 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
You know what the replicability criteria for the 991 911 Cup car brake contract was, right? Only PFC was able to meet it
I was going to bring this up as well

PFC brakes are used on everything from grassroots motorsports to NASCAR cup cars to LeMans sports cars to Indycars. Their success in different forms of top professional race series speaks volumes. You can't say that about ST and Sparta.
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      09-06-2017, 08:16 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3SQRD View Post
I was going to bring this up as well

PFC brakes are used on everything from grassroots motorsports to NASCAR cup cars to LeMans sports cars to Indycars. Their success in different forms of top professional race series speaks volumes. You can't say that about ST and Sparta.
I have no doubt about it. I liked my PFCs so much I took a set to Barcelona for a friend's Z4MC track car, then got another set for my backup E92 track car

Best stuff since sliced bread
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      09-14-2017, 11:14 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
I have no doubt about it. I liked my PFCs so much I took a set to Barcelona for a friend's Z4MC track car, then got another set for my backup E92 track car

Best stuff since sex
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      09-15-2017, 08:33 AM   #74
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FIFY
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      10-05-2017, 12:07 AM   #75
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PFC is now going to be supplying all parrs of the Indy cars this year so they must do something right.

Sadly they actually changed ownership lthis past year and there is some speculation there has been a change in direction. Lets hope not.

Honestly I am sure many of the high end kits work great and as long as there is no pad knock back, which PFC does not have, then I am sure they work great.

I am happy with them. I think the PFC rotor construction is superior to anything else out there. I think PFC is the lightest stuff out there while still being equally rigid. I think PFC has the best pad compound and the largest pads.

I am happy with them but I am sure I would be happy with many of the big kits
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      10-05-2017, 10:05 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8600RPM View Post
PFC is now going to be supplying all parrs of the Indy cars this year so they must do something right.

Sadly they actually changed ownership lthis past year and there is some speculation there has been a change in direction. Lets hope not.

Honestly I am sure many of the high end kits work great and as long as there is no pad knock back, which PFC does not have, then I am sure they work great.

I am happy with them. I think the PFC rotor construction is superior to anything else out there. I think PFC is the lightest stuff out there while still being equally rigid. I think PFC has the best pad compound and the largest pads.

I am happy with them but I am sure I would be happy with many of the big kits
Yes, the owner passed away. However, after a couple months of uncertainty I find they've gotten more responsive!

The only other kit which I feel is in the same universe is the AP one that also has fat pads, however, the PFC ones are still fatter and the v3 mounting system is so far ahead of anything else it is just incredible.
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      12-02-2017, 09:03 PM   #77
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6,000 mile update. Still very happy with the system. Track pads have been in and out 3-4 times now and they are great. No issues with track performance and the street pads are excellent and noiseless. Swapping pads is absolutely effortless, no reason not to do it.

I was tempted to buy the PFC rear kit but it's another $3K and it's just hard to justify. I'm going to install brass caliper bushings in the stock rear calipers but otherwise stay with the stock rear set up. Seems to work fine for me on track and I'll be running the PFC 11s in back once my Endless pads are completely done (probably not optimal relative to what I'm running up front).
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      12-03-2017, 01:08 AM   #78
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Remind me what F/R compounds you run on the street and on track?
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      12-03-2017, 08:35 AM   #79
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On the street
Front- PFC Carbon-Metallic, Z-rated street pads
Rear- Endless MX-72, will go back to BMW stock once these are done
(both front and rear are completely noiseless)

Track
Front- PFC-11 track enduro pad
Rear- PFC-11 stock caliper pad

Last edited by VictorH; 12-03-2017 at 09:01 AM..
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      11-06-2019, 09:19 PM   #80
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Bumping up an old thread. How are these brakes holding up for everyone? Any corrosion issues that anyone has come across on a daily, by chance? Has anyone gotten a set of 18 inch E88's that can confirm the Z54/45 combo fits under them?
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      11-07-2019, 07:21 AM   #81
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Wow, bumping up a really old thread.
I still have my car and this front BBK. I'm guessing I have 30-40,000 miles on them and dozens of track events.
Measured my rotors last week and the fronts are 30.5mm left and 30.6 right. Wear limit is 30.0 mm. The rotors are all heat checked but no big cracks and no rotor vibration.
My favorite pads now come from Cobalt Friction, mainly because I wanted a lot more (than stock) rear brake bias and I still have stock rear calipers.

Pad wear even with more aggressive compound is still really good. I have track event next weekend, so my car is in full track set up now and it's miserable on the street (super noisy). However, this is still an amazing set up, no regrets other than wish I had gotten it sooner. The street pads last forever.
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      11-07-2019, 10:18 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
Bumping up an old thread. How are these brakes holding up for everyone? Any corrosion issues that anyone has come across on a daily, by chance? Has anyone gotten a set of 18 inch E88's that can confirm the Z54/45 combo fits under them?
They continue to be pure perfection.

On the stroker E90 we have the full PFC BBK. It is hard to describe to which point they satisfy, completely. There has not been a single moment where I wished for anything else.

When we bought the F80 CS my brother and I were so certain we wanted to use the PFC Z54 front caliper that we spent months measuring, drawing up in Solidworks and getting brackets 3d printed before committing to an aluminum bracket.
You see, PFC does not build a bracket to adapt their BBK onto the F80, so we did it ourselves. It took a massive amount of time but we managed to do it.
That is how good the BBK is.

For the rear position of the CS we were concerned about parking brake compatibility so we went with the 'other' high level kit: AP RadiCal.
The RadiCal looks very cool but the rotors are a large step down vs the PFCs.

If we end up buying a G80 in a couple years we will take whatever time is needed to move the PFC brakes there.


Over in the stroker thread there's a video of a track day. It does a 30 min session and then it goes out in the next run group for another 30 min, all day nonstop.
In the AER cars we run full PFC brakes as well.

PFC has no forum presence and terrible marketing but they are certainly the real deal. I don't think something better exists.
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      11-07-2019, 10:20 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ayao View Post
Remind me what F/R compounds you run on the street and on track?
On the track I run PFC11 pads front and rear. The full PFC kit already moves the bias to the rear ~10% which is just what you want for the track.

On the street I just leave the PFC11 pads in. Before I used PFC12/08 pads and those were louder but on the E90 and the F80CS the pads are almost completely quiet.

I have a set of PFC Z Rated for the street, just never use them.

My cars are put away in winter so I haven't experienced any corrosion.
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      11-07-2019, 10:53 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
Bumping up an old thread. How are these brakes holding up for everyone? Any corrosion issues that anyone has come across on a daily, by chance? Has anyone gotten a set of 18 inch E88's that can confirm the Z54/45 combo fits under them?
They continue to be pure perfection.

On the stroker E90 we have the full PFC BBK. It is hard to describe to which point they satisfy, completely. There has not been a single moment where I wished for anything else.

When we bought the F80 CS my brother and I were so certain we wanted to use the PFC Z54 front caliper that we spent months measuring, drawing up in Solidworks and getting brackets 3d printed before committing to an aluminum bracket.
You see, PFC does not build a bracket to adapt their BBK onto the F80, so we did it ourselves. It took a massive amount of time but we managed to do it.
That is how good the BBK is.

For the rear position of the CS we were concerned about parking brake compatibility so we went with the 'other' high level kit: AP RadiCal.
The RadiCal looks very cool but the rotors are a large step down vs the PFCs.

If we end up buying a G80 in a couple years we will take whatever time is needed to move the PFC brakes there.


Over in the stroker thread there's a video of a track day. It does a 30 min session and then it goes out in the next run group for another 30 min, all day nonstop.
In the AER cars we run full PFC brakes as well.

PFC has no forum presence and terrible marketing but they are certainly the real deal. I don't think something better exists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayao View Post
Remind me what F/R compounds you run on the street and on track?
On the track I run PFC11 pads front and rear. The full PFC kit already moves the bias to the rear ~10% which is just what you want for the track.

On the street I just leave the PFC11 pads in. Before I used PFC12/08 pads and those were louder but on the E90 and the F80CS the pads are almost completely quiet.

I have a set of PFC Z Rated for the street, just never use them.

My cars are put away in winter so I haven't experienced any corrosion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VictorH View Post
Wow, bumping up a really old thread.
I still have my car and this front BBK. I'm guessing I have 30-40,000 miles on them and dozens of track events.
Measured my rotors last week and the fronts are 30.5mm left and 30.6 right. Wear limit is 30.0 mm. The rotors are all heat checked but no big cracks and no rotor vibration.
My favorite pads now come from Cobalt Friction, mainly because I wanted a lot more (than stock) rear brake bias and I still have stock rear calipers.

Pad wear even with more aggressive compound is still really good. I have track event next weekend, so my car is in full track set up now and it's miserable on the street (super noisy). However, this is still an amazing set up, no regrets other than wish I had gotten it sooner. The street pads last forever.
Thanks for the replies. I've heard nothing but god things about performance. I guess my only concern now is wheels fitment. I know the calipers are absolutely massive, width wise. I don't want to run into clearance problems running E88's but I can't find any kinds of templates or diagrams to check for clearance. Thanks again for the replies. 👍
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      11-07-2019, 10:57 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienrocs View Post
Thanks for the replies. I've heard nothing but god things about performance. I guess my only concern now is wheels fitment. I know the calipers are absolutely massive, width wise. I don't want to run into clearance problems running E88's but I can't find any kinds of templates or diagrams to check for clearance. Thanks again for the replies. 👍
If you were around here I'd pull a set so you can check. My cars are going to sleep for winter anyway.

Look at it this way: with a 15mm spacer, the stock 18" wheels juuuuust clear the front calipers. I can't imagine E88's have worse BBK fitment than the stock 18s
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      11-07-2019, 06:34 PM   #86
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Just checked my repair log book. I'm right at 30,000 miles on my PFC front kit.
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      11-08-2019, 02:36 PM   #87
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No experience with PFC on the E92, but I did run a full kit on an E36 race car. As others have mentioned they are fantastic. Car had no ABS and manual brakes, but the control and pedal feel was outstanding - hard to imagine a better brake setup.

With that being said, speaking to some individuals at Bimmerworld a few weeks back - they say PFC is no longer producing BBK's. They will continue to produce pads but not brake kits. Not sure how accurate this is, but they are big proponents of PFC so I doubt they'd say this for no reason. Issue being is the future availability for parts. Repair kit, caliper parts, hats, rotors and rotor rings will eventually not be available anymore. Obviously the situation where no parts are available is long down the road, but it is disconcerting if you currently run them. Just wanted to mention this as I haven't seen this brought up in many places yet.
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      11-08-2019, 02:49 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk94 View Post
No experience with PFC on the E92, but I did run a full kit on an E36 race car. As others have mentioned they are fantastic. Car had no ABS and manual brakes, but the control and pedal feel was outstanding - hard to imagine a better brake setup.

With that being said, speaking to some individuals at Bimmerworld a few weeks back - they say PFC is no longer producing BBK's. They will continue to produce pads but not brake kits. Not sure how accurate this is, but they are big proponents of PFC so I doubt they'd say this for no reason. Issue being is the future availability for parts. Repair kit, caliper parts, hats, rotors and rotor rings will eventually not be available anymore. Obviously the situation where no parts are available is long down the road, but it is disconcerting if you currently run them. Just wanted to mention this as I haven't seen this brought up in many places yet.
they indeed have stopped building the E36 kits
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