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      11-06-2019, 08:33 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by thump604 View Post
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Originally Posted by LakeSurfer View Post
Dumb people give dealers a bad reputation. You are the one looking for the car, you are the one spending your money in the car and you are the one who should research the car BEFORE you drive it home. It's not the dealers responsibility to disclose everything about the vehicle. It's the dealers responsibility to show the car and legally facilitate the sale.

Stop bitching and whining about getting screwed over by dealers and start acting like a responsible consumer and do your homework and if you can't handle that then buy a 0 mile car.
This is an example why I deleted my content here. You are wrong but feel okay to call me names if it makes you feel good.
https://www.tceq.texas.gov/airqualit...tampering.html
At the end of the day I had no choice but to agree to a buyback - no choice.
When you drive the new Camry and happen to go 1 mph over the speed limit, make sure you turn yourself into the police for a speeding ticket immediately. Can't violate the law.. ABSOLUTELY NO CHOICE but to ask for the ticket since you broke the law...... even if did immediately go back under the speed limit, at zero cost and effort.
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      11-06-2019, 09:09 PM   #46
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@op, are you upset because the cars not stock and you thought you purchased a stock example? Or are you upset because you think the cars been driven hard because of the modifications with potential greater wear and tear? Would you have been happy if the car was put back to stock known it had been modified by previous owner?
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      11-07-2019, 12:52 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by LakeSurfer View Post
Dumb people give dealers a bad reputation. You are the one looking for the car, you are the one spending your money in the car and you are the one who should research the car BEFORE you drive it home. It's not the dealers responsibility to disclose everything about the vehicle. It's the dealers responsibility to show the car and legally facilitate the sale.

Stop bitching and whining about getting screwed over by dealers and start acting like a responsible consumer and do your homework and if you can't handle that then buy a 0 mile car.
Wow you're one rude surfer, and wrong on top.
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      11-07-2019, 01:18 AM   #48
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lot of internet tough guys in this thread

we all started somewhere...
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      11-07-2019, 08:16 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by thump604 View Post
This is an example why I deleted my content here. You are wrong but feel okay to call me names if it makes you feel good.
https://www.tceq.texas.gov/airqualit...tampering.html
At the end of the day I had no choice but to agree to a buyback - no choice.
I wasn't calling you names, its a blanket statement and still stands. you knew enough about the laws to post a link about them but you didn't look at the car to see if it past the laws?

When i bought my M3 i flew across the country and took it for half the day. I had a company do a Pre purchase inspection and I inspected it for 2 hours by myself. I brought notes and key things to look for. I would never hold the dealer accountable because its my purchase, not theirs so again they will not disclose everything or anything. the cats being removed are a pretty obvious modification. My car had the cats deleted as well and was sold in a state where it is illegal and guess what? no one told me the cats were removed. luckily for me i live in Florida where its legal to remove cats and modify cars.

that being said, it looks like they did sell it to you illegally and i guess thats why they took it back? and that sucks but I still think you should have caught it before you went into negotiations and before all this headache.

-Mark
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      11-07-2019, 08:27 AM   #50
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Wow you're one rude surfer, and wrong on top.
How am i wrong? Please explain this to me. you don't like what i said and i get that and your opinion is that im wrong but am i really wrong? just think about it.

If a dealer sells you a car that has been in an accident and they don't tell you the extent of the damage but you still buy the car. Who would win in court?......

The dealer would win. i'm not saying its right, i'm saying its YOUR responsibility to FULLY understand where YOUR money is going and NOT the dealers. I'm saying the dealers don't have to tell you anything, and they don't. that's a fact. And most importantly im saying you have to have an amount of personable accountability. maybe this guy got screwed over but he also bought a car with no cats in a state where this is illegal. probably should've looked at that before dropping the coin.

-mark
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      11-07-2019, 09:26 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by LakeSurfer View Post
How am i wrong? Please explain this to me. you don't like what i said and i get that and your opinion is that im wrong but am i really wrong? just think about it.

If a dealer sells you a car that has been in an accident and they don't tell you the extent of the damage but you still buy the car. Who would win in court?......

The dealer would win. i'm not saying its right, i'm saying its YOUR responsibility to FULLY understand where YOUR money is going and NOT the dealers. I'm saying the dealers don't have to tell you anything, and they don't. that's a fact. And most importantly im saying you have to have an amount of personable accountability. maybe this guy got screwed over but he also bought a car with no cats in a state where this is illegal. probably should've looked at that before dropping the coin.

-mark
Not sure how business is conducted over there but in my world one should not be required to be an expert to avoid getting tricked by a dealer. On the contrary, one of the reasons to spend extra coin buying from a dealer it that they should make bloody sure the car follow local rules and laws (+ over here actually provide warranty for hidden faults for at least 6 month).

Regardless of right or wrong, can't see reason to start jerk around with people who simply is crying out and asking for opinions. Doesn't promote the fellowship at all in my book.

Cheers,
Nik
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      11-07-2019, 10:19 AM   #52
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Not sure how business is conducted over there but in my world one should not be required to be an expert to avoid getting tricked by a dealer. On the contrary, one of the reasons to spend extra coin buying from a dealer it that they should make bloody sure the car follow local rules and laws (+ over here actually provide warranty for hidden faults for at least 6 month).

Regardless of right or wrong, can't see reason to start jerk around with people who simply is crying out and asking for opinions. Doesn't promote the fellowship at all in my book.

Cheers,
Nik
Well unfortunately we don't live in your world.

however much I agree with honestly and full disclosure it is not required by any law in this country. as a buyer you should be an expert or try to be or at least find someone who is when making a big purchase like a luxury sports car. in the states dealers are not required to provide any warranty of any sort. This is where you as a buyer come in and negotiate one and if that fails then roll your sleeves up and get underneath the car and check things out.

perhaps my initial post was inappropriate to use name calling, this doesn't mean i'm wrong. Its not an opinion that you should know what your buying because you should know what your buying, the key word is YOU. the dealer doesn't need to know what your buying because they don't care, you know this, i know this and everyone else knows this. perhaps it sounds harsh but its true. dealers have bad reputations for this reason so if you know dealers will try to screw you over then man up and find a way to protect yourself.

right or wrong if one is crying out for opinions then opinions is what they will get.

-Mark
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      11-07-2019, 10:39 AM   #53
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I still stand by what I said on the first page that this was a super easy fix.

Primary cats and a reflash were all that would have been needed. Even the muffler could have remained as it doesn't mess with emissions and the OP obviously liked the sound. But if for some reason you wanted a stock one you can find people on the forums GIVING THEM AWAY.
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      11-07-2019, 10:41 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSurfer View Post

however much I agree with honestly and full disclosure it is not required by any law in this country. as a buyer you should be an expert or try to be or at least find someone who is when making a big purchase like a luxury sports car. in the states dealers are not required to provide any warranty of any sort. This is where you as a buyer come in and negotiate one and if that fails then roll your sleeves up and get underneath the car and check things out.

perhaps my initial post was inappropriate to use name calling, this doesn't mean i'm wrong. Its not an opinion that you should know what your buying because you should know what your buying, the key word is YOU. the dealer doesn't need to know what your buying because they don't care, you know this, i know this and everyone else knows this. perhaps it sounds harsh but its true. dealers have bad reputations for this reason so if you know dealers will try to screw you over then man up and find a way to protect yourself.

right or wrong if one is crying out for opinions then opinions is what they will get.

-Mark
You are fundamentally wrong when it comes to vehicle sales, emissions and the law for states where they apply, maybe you didn't read the link which I was informed about after the purchase. I'm no expert in law or an attorney:

"Texas law prohibits any person from selling, offering for sale, leasing, or offering to lease any vehicle not equipped with all emission control systems or devices in good operable condition. Violators are subject to penalties under the Texas Clean Air Act of up to $25,000 per violation. Buyers are advised to have the vehicle checked for all required emission control devices prior to purchasing a new or used vehicle.

A vehicle may not be legally sold if its original engine has been replaced with another certified engine but without the related emission control components. Tampering includes the failure to install the emission controls associated with an engine configuration."

Federal(EPA) codes are also in force for emissions tampering. The full responsibility is on the seller in this case. The sale was illegal from private seller to dealer and from dealer to me. I was trying to argue for me to keep it and was working that angle, but after days of getting the run around they would only buy it back and stated they can't sell it to me. I did also pay to have a PPI done and they missed it too. I'm No mechanic and the dealer and PPI initially missed it. I think they bought it back as it was the most risk averse for them. I might have been able to fight to keep it but I probably would have had to get a lawyer involved and didn't seem worth the fight as there was also a lender involved with contract terms and extended warranty terms invalidating the warranty.

All said and done, I learned a lot. As an enthusiast myself I would consider personally doing and accepting just about any mod that is an upgrade but personally I draw the line at emissions. Most of the legal mods were parted out and sold. The whole thing could have been avoided by putting the cats back on by the original seller or the dealer addressing prior to the sale.

I'm now back in the market, wiser. I'm glad to see some people in this thread not just laughing at me and ridiculing me. That gives me some hope for this community.

Last edited by thump604; 11-07-2019 at 11:06 AM..
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      11-07-2019, 10:48 AM   #55
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Lol. Why do I bother checking on this forum anymore...
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      11-07-2019, 11:17 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thump604 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSurfer View Post

however much I agree with honestly and full disclosure it is not required by any law in this country. as a buyer you should be an expert or try to be or at least find someone who is when making a big purchase like a luxury sports car. in the states dealers are not required to provide any warranty of any sort. This is where you as a buyer come in and negotiate one and if that fails then roll your sleeves up and get underneath the car and check things out.

perhaps my initial post was inappropriate to use name calling, this doesn't mean i'm wrong. Its not an opinion that you should know what your buying because you should know what your buying, the key word is YOU. the dealer doesn't need to know what your buying because they don't care, you know this, i know this and everyone else knows this. perhaps it sounds harsh but its true. dealers have bad reputations for this reason so if you know dealers will try to screw you over then man up and find a way to protect yourself.

right or wrong if one is crying out for opinions then opinions is what they will get.

-Mark
You are fundamentally wrong when it comes to vehicle sales, emissions and the law for states where they apply, maybe you didn't read the link which I was informed about after the purchase. I'm no expert in law or an attorney:

"Texas law prohibits any person from selling, offering for sale, leasing, or offering to lease any vehicle not equipped with all emission control systems or devices in good operable condition. Violators are subject to penalties under the Texas Clean Air Act of up to $25,000 per violation. Buyers are advised to have the vehicle checked for all required emission control devices prior to purchasing a new or used vehicle.

A vehicle may not be legally sold if its original engine has been replaced with another certified engine but without the related emission control components. Tampering includes the failure to install the emission controls associated with an engine configuration."

Federal(EPA) codes are also in force for emissions tampering. The full responsibility is on the seller in this case. The sale was illegal from private seller to dealer and from dealer to me. I was trying to argue for me to keep it and was working that angle, but after days of getting the run around they would only buy it back and stated they can't sell it to me. I did also pay to have a PPI done and they missed it too. I'm No mechanic and the dealer and PPI initially missed it. I think they bought it back as it was the most risk averse for them. I might have been able to fight to keep it but I probably would have had to get a lawyer involved and didn't seem worth the fight as there was also a lender involved with contract terms and extended warranty terms invalidating the warranty.

All said and done, I learned a lot. As an enthusiast myself I would consider personally doing and accepting just about any mod that is an upgrade but personally I draw the line at emissions. Most of the legal mods were parted out and sold. The whole thing could have been avoided by putting the cats back on by the original seller or the dealer addressing prior to the sale.

I'm now back in the market, wiser. I'm glad to see some people in this thread not just laughing at me and ridiculing me. That gives me some hope for this community.
"Buyers are advised to have the vehicle checked for all required emission control devices prior to purchasing a new or used vehicle."

Straight from the law. This is you, you are the buyer. You're at fault just as the dealer is.

I'm not ridiculing you. I'm just saying you need to know the laws just as much as the dealer does. It's your responsibility. I assume you knew there are some laws regarding emissions in the state of Texas before you even started looking? It's responsible to look at both sides beforehand.

It sucks that you had to learn this way but it could've been prevented with 5 minutes on google and 2 minutes under the car.

I'm just playing devils advocate here.

-Mark
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      11-07-2019, 12:30 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSurfer View Post
"Buyers are advised to have the vehicle checked for all required emission control devices prior to purchasing a new or used vehicle."

Straight from the law. This is you, you are the buyer. You're at fault just as the dealer is.

I'm not ridiculing you. I'm just saying you need to know the laws just as much as the dealer does. It's your responsibility. I assume you knew there are some laws regarding emissions in the state of Texas before you even started looking? It's responsible to look at both sides beforehand.

It sucks that you had to learn this way but it could've been prevented with 5 minutes on google and 2 minutes under the car.

I'm just playing devils advocate here.

-Mark
Boy, you just cling to whatever helps you play devils advocate while skimming over the things that don't.

It is good advice and I paid someone to do that. Regardless of the advise, it does not change the law. I have handled my responsibilities and dealt with the situation as it evolved. Yes, I knew some laws existed and then learned more. I'm out of this after this reply. It's interesting the entire focus has gone to me vs the root cause and how this could have really been completely prevented.
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      11-07-2019, 12:33 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LakeSurfer View Post
Dumb people give dealers a bad reputation. You are the one looking for the car, you are the one spending your money in the car and you are the one who should research the car BEFORE you drive it home. It's not the dealers responsibility to disclose everything about the vehicle. It's the dealers responsibility to show the car and legally facilitate the sale.

Stop bitching and whining about getting screwed over by dealers and start acting like a responsible consumer and do your homework and if you can't handle that then buy a 0 mile car.
Well no, it is the dealer's responsibility to sell a car that will pass both emissions and safety inspections. I believe it is a Federal law. And on top of that, some states have their own more stringent laws regarding the ability of passing emissions and safety within a certain amount of time after purchase. My state has one for used cars and I believe the state the OP lives in does as well.

Things do get fishy though when you are selling the car online and sell to someone in another state. But a purchase within your own state from someone who is also a resident of your state is more straight forward with the consequences for not passing emissions.

OP, I didn't get a chance to read the original post, but did you not have any recourse with the dealer regarding not passing emissions? Did the dealer offer to buy it back at least?

Last edited by revengeismine; 11-07-2019 at 12:59 PM..
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      11-07-2019, 12:50 PM   #59
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...if you paid for the PPI, ask for a refund.

If the shop didn't catch that the car had no cats I would be worried they didn't even inspect it.
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      11-07-2019, 01:07 PM   #60
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OP, I didn't get a chance to read the original post, but did you not have any recourse with the dealer regarding not passing emissions? Did the dealer offer to buy it back at least?
First they offered to make the car compliant which I was good with, but then they flipped and were no longer wiling to do that and only willing to buy it back. Their position was they could not sell it to me after selling it to me. I opted not to fight it and let them by it back. They also paid for my oil service I just had performed.
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      11-07-2019, 01:10 PM   #61
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...if you paid for the PPI, ask for a refund.

If the shop didn't catch that the car had no cats I would be worried they didn't even inspect it.
I thought about it, but I have used that shop for many years and always felt I could trust them and that they have integrity. If it was my first experience with them I defiantly would have a very negative opinion, but in this case I'm willing to overlook given their past rack record with me.
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      11-07-2019, 01:37 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by thump604 View Post
First they offered to make the car compliant which I was good with, but then they flipped and were no longer wiling to do that and only willing to buy it back. Their position was they could not sell it to me after selling it to me. I opted not to fight it and let them by it back. They also paid for my oil service I just had performed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thump604 View Post
I thought about it, but I have used that shop for many years and always felt I could trust them and that they have integrity. If it was my first experience with them I defiantly would have a very negative opinion, but in this case I'm willing to overlook given their past rack record with me.
Too bad since you have a good relationship with the shop that fudged the PPI, maybe you could have purchased the cats yourself and then asked the shop to give you a break on labor for installing new cats for fucking up the PPI?

Well regardless, I do understand being sour over this and it can definitely ruin the whole owning experience. I went through it with my M3 (albeit it was my own fault)...but I decided to own up to it, get the stuff fixed and my soured experience melted away soon after.
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      11-07-2019, 02:31 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by thump604 View Post
I thought about it, but I have used that shop for many years and always felt I could trust them and that they have integrity. If it was my first experience with them I defiantly would have a very negative opinion, but in this case I'm willing to overlook given their past rack record with me.
Not doubting their integrity, I'm doubting their competency.

Primary cats are not exactly hidden. The stage 2 tune I can understand overlooking because its software.

Your move going forward of course.
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      11-07-2019, 08:14 PM   #64
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What part of TX are you at ? So the Dealership sold you a car with no cats and tuned so no CEL ?
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