Updated Lexus IS-F faster than M3 around a track?

[CaptainDang]

Brother in law is looking to get into something fast, 4 door and sporty after selling his Z4. He has 1 kid so the Z4 would not work anymore.

He wanted a new 335i, but I told him for the price he could pick up a used C63, CTS-V, E90 M3 or IS-F. CTS-V is automatically ruled out since he doesn't do GM.

After trolling the Lexus forums, it seems like the updated 2011 and up Lexus IS-F are seriously fast around the track.

Car and Driver lighting lap has the 2011 IS-F at 3:05.4 which is faster than both the E92 M3 coupe (3:05.6) and C63 AMG Coupe (3:06.3). An E92 M3 coupe running Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Plus tires would only tie (3:05.4) the 2011+ IS-F which is running on regular summer tires.

So my question is... since the IS-F is under tired from the factory, 225F/255R on a 400+ hp car, and it tied an E92 M3 coupe running on 245F/265R track tires. What if they were on level playing fields and they were both running Pilot Sport Cup Plus tires, would the IS-F destroy it the M3? Would a 4 door E90 M3 fare even worse against the Lexus?

We're discussing the newer updated 2011+ IS-F here, as it seems the early 2008-2010 IS-F's were pretty mediocre around a track.

Thoughts guys? Can anybody track knowledgeable please share their opinions on this?

[CaptainDang]

Nobody has any thoughts on this? I'm trying to push an E90 M3 on him, gimme some feedback people.

[Amirsm3]

He should test drive all the cars he's interested in.

[fecurtis]

Does your brother in law even track his cars? Because if he doesn't, we're talking about fractions of a second here...

[ShocknAwe]

He should drive all the cars he is interested in and then BUY the one that makes him FEEL a connection to it.

Takes quite a lot to realize a cars full potential on a track. Years of experience. Pretty stupid to buy a car based solely on performance specs. Even if a car is slower around a track, it could still be much more fun than the faster options. Considering track days aren't races, well, I think you get my point.

[SunnyD]

I've owned both and yes, the 2011+ ISFs with the updated suspension handle as well as the e9x m3s. The only thing I wasn't a fan of on the ISF was the 8spd auto. The DCT is worlds better. He really needs to drive both to see which he prefers.

[drunkenup]

as quick as the 8 speed shifts in that car, the audible shift indicator is unbearable

[dmk08]

How does the 11 comp pack e90 fare? Should do better.

[SunnyD]

Originally Posted by drunkenup

as quick as the 8 speed shifts in that car, the audible shift indicator is unbearable

Not sure about the pre 2011s, but once they revised the gauges, the audible indicator was gone and replaced by shift lights similar to the e9x m3s with DCT.

[CaptainDang]

Originally Posted by SunnyD

I've owned both and yes, the 2011+ ISFs with the updated suspension handle as well as the e9x m3s. The only thing I wasn't a fan of on the ISF was the 8spd auto. The DCT is worlds better. He really needs to drive both to see which he prefers.

Thanks SunnyD, we just came back from test driving a C63 sedan at Carmax and he is smitten.

Now that car rocks, we need to find an M3 and IS-F to drive and compare but it looks like the C63 is winning by first impression. Only complaint is the C63 looks a little low rent on the inside.

[IEDEI]

screw track times....meaningless for the street driver.

he should drive them and buy what he likes....

[airshaq20]

Agree with the comments above.
Also, bear in mind that the best drivers' cars are not necessarily the fastest.
Let me give you an example, a purpose-built Civic designed to run 10 sec quarter mile might beat a lot of luxury/sporty cars and even supercars but that doesn't mean it drives good. Also, fast doesn't equal fun. I personally would prefer fun over speed.

[Ezio]

putting aside performance number. the only Lexus i would never buy is a LFA. Not that they are bad cars. when i see them in the road they just don't hit me like a BMW does. that is something that a track time has nothing to do with.

[CaptainDang]

Originally Posted by Ezio

putting aside performance number. the only Lexus i would never buy is a LFA. Not that they are bad cars. when i see them in the road they just don't hit me like a BMW does. that is something that a track time has nothing to do with.

I agree with you mostly, Lexus regular vehicles never did anything for me either but their F cars (LFA, IS-F and RC-F) are nothing at all like their regular line up just like our M cars. So they get a pass and I wouldn't kick any of them out of bed.

The problem I have with M cars are they are like civics, they're a dime a dozen and everywhere. I think it takes away some of it's exclusivity and makes them less special. Maybe it's only like this in Cali?

An IS-F or C63 seems much more rare and will catch my attention more readily.

[Ezio]

Originally Posted by CaptainDang

I agree with you mostly, Lexus regular vehicles never did anything for me either but their F cars (LFA, IS-F and RC-F) are nothing at all like their regular line up just like our M cars. So they get a pass and I wouldn't kick any of them out of bed.

The problem I have with M cars are they are like civics, they're a dime a dozen and everywhere. I think it takes away some of it's exclusivity and makes them less special. Maybe it's only like this in Cali?

An IS-F or C63 seems much more rare and will catch my attention more readily.

ya thats a cally thing. The last time i saw another M3 on the road was about 4 months ago. I don't see them to often in Michigan. Although most people don't even know what a M3 is anyways. cally has A LOT of M3s. over half the members here are located in cally, and so are the shops. so my views are going to be different.

[REV1]

A good friend of mine has a IS-F he does really well at the track but he's also a way above average driver and I guarantee you he would be faster in M3. He told me NOBODY even notices him in the car. It looks like a regular Lexus and there are more Lexus cars here in San Francisco Bay area than you would believe. I see a lot of them. I guarantee you if he had his pick he would take the M3. He just got a really good deal on it. If your friend is just
Looking for track performance in a car the ISF or the M3 is probably not best choice. They are both great all around cars but the M3 is just better.

[cenix]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Does your brother in law even track his cars? Because if he doesn't, we're talking about fractions of a second here...

Well said. Better question is: Is the brother in law as good as any of these test drivers for Car and Driver to get remotely close to those times even on R Comps?

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by E92M3SG08

A good friend of mine has a IS-F he does really well at the track but he's also a way above average driver and I guarantee you he would be faster in M3. He told me NOBODY even notices him in the car. It looks like a regular Lexus and there are more Lexus cars here in San Francisco Bay area than you would believe. I see a lot of them. I guarantee you if he had his pick he would take the M3. He just got a really good deal on it. If your friend is just
Looking for track performance in a car the ISF or the M3 is probably not best choice. They are both great all around cars but the M3 is just better.

Depends on where you live. Around here I'd say an IS-F would get more attention than an M3. You don't see IS-F's very often around here.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

He should drive all the cars he is interested in and then BUY the one that makes him FEEL a connection to it.

Takes quite a lot to realize a cars full potential on a track. Years of experience. Pretty stupid to buy a car based solely on performance specs. Even if a car is slower around a track, it could still be much more fun than the faster options. Considering track days aren't races, well, I think you get my point.

This. 100%.

Personally i'd get the CTS-V wagon, kiddie hauler and corner carver in one.

[SunnyD]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Depends on where you live. Around here I'd say an IS-F would get more attention than an M3. You don't see IS-F's very often around here.

You don't see ISFs very often period, even in SoCal. If you're going for exclusivity, the ISF is the choice over an M3.

[John 070]

Does a Lexus simulate motor sounds through the stereo speakers, or cost 89k? The M3 is the clear winner.

[Disturbed]

Originally Posted by CaptainDang

Brother in law is looking to get into something fast, 4 door and sporty after selling his Z4. He has 1 kid so the Z4 would not work anymore.

He wanted a new 335i, but I told him for the price he could pick up a used C63, CTS-V, E90 M3 or IS-F. CTS-V is automatically ruled out since he doesn't do GM.

After trolling the Lexus forums, it seems like the updated 2011 and up Lexus IS-F are seriously fast around the track.

Car and Driver lighting lap has the 2011 IS-F at 3:05.4 which is faster than both the E92 M3 coupe (3:05.6) and C63 AMG Coupe (3:06.3). An E92 M3 coupe running Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Plus tires would only tie (3:05.4) the 2011+ IS-F which is running on regular summer tires.

So my question is... since the IS-F is under tired from the factory, 225F/255R on a 400+ hp car, and it tied an E92 M3 coupe running on 245F/265R track tires. What if they were on level playing fields and they were both running Pilot Sport Cup Plus tires, would the IS-F destroy it the M3? Would a 4 door E90 M3 fare even worse against the Lexus?

We're discussing the newer updated 2011+ IS-F here, as it seems the early 2008-2010 IS-F's were pretty mediocre around a track.

Thoughts guys? Can anybody track knowledgeable please share their opinions on this?

What about a hellcat Charger. $65k new. Heck of a car for the money. They are underrated and are closer to 750hp with that awesome 8sp auto.