Battery/Alternator Issues

[SHADY1]

My problem just started out of the blue. I don't daily drive my M3 it's Supercharged with a VF650 kit and I replaced the battery a few weeks ago. I went to go start my M3 and I could hear my starter ticking not fully engaging like it should. I assume my starter was going bad because my battery was brand new. I decided to jump my car off just in case. When I jumped it the car started up and went in limp mode. I cut the car on and off then back on everything is fine cranking on and off no problem.

I decided to drive the car 2 1/2 hours to my mechanic friend. This is the only guy I trust to look at my Supercharged M3 to have him verify if my starter is good or not. We removed the VF manifold and everything to get to the starter. We tested the starter and it was working fine the test was good. When I went to go start the car back up after we put everything back together the starter started ticking again. It was acting like it did not have enough power to start the car . We jumped off the car it went in limp mode. Cut the car off tuned it back on everything is fine. We check the voltage and notice the Alternator was not charging the way it should. The highest it was reading was 13.9 then going lower 13.6, 13.5, 13.3, 13.1 my P3 gauge inside the car was also reading the same as the other measuring devices we were using.

I drove my car 2 1/2 hours back home the condition was getting worse. Driving it was like the movie Speed I had to watch my P3 gauge! with everything turned off. If the car would idle or going slow in traffic not keep a certain amount of speed keeping the car going the voltage would drop. 13.7, 13.5, 13.1, 12.9, 12.7 engine would start to stutter making funny sounds, 12.5 ohhh snap limp mode I would have to pull over cut the car off start the process all over again until I got home. I ordered a new Alternator from ECS Tuning. Normally replacing the alternator on a OEM M3 takes 30 min to a hour max. My M3 is Supercharged with a VF650 kit with a blower bracket that is in the way that makes this a 2 to 3 hour job everything is in the way . I Replaced the old Alternator with the new brand new Valeo Alternator. I cranked up the car and the voltage reads 13.7 . I take the car on a quick test drive same problem the Movie Speed event all over again voltage drop 13.9, 13.7, 13.5, 13.1, 12.9, 12.7 motor starts to stutter . I am currently still trying to figure out the problem. The car is giving no codes. .

[JP10]

^^

Odd. My battery voltage would drop as I was driving as well, but that was because I knew that the alternator was not putting out any voltage, thus just draining my battery slowly. If you have Carly, I believe there is a parameter called % load from generator. Which to my knowledge corresponds to the output of the alternator. When my voltage was 11.9 and dropping the % load from my generator(alternator) was 0.00%. After numerous restarts I would finally get the alternator to turn on(voltage increase to ~14.5), and thus I would get a % load reading as well. Maybe try that to see if you perhaps recieved a faulty alternator? You could also pop by an autozone, and they can do a test on the system. I know when I went and tested mine before the replacement (alternator actually turned on this time), the reading came out that my alternator was overcharging my battery. So i figured it was voltage regulator but decided to swap the whole alternator to be on the safe side.

The limp mode that I was getting I believe was corresponding to my throttle actuator issue, except the time where my car shut off while driving, that I assume was the alternator. Since replacing with the new valeo I have measured my voltage numerous times, and it has checked out everytime.

I saw on another post that another member was having starter issues, and the car was displaying no codes. I'll post the link below, I believe page 4 is where he figures out his issue. Also on page 6 it seems like another member was having similar issues(car starting then dying).

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...1142234&page=6

Best of luck man, hope you find the issue.

[SDPLV]

Originally Posted by JPacy

Ended up getting the same one you mentioned from researching around. Got 25% off for ordering online so ended up being $175, will get another $25 back with my old battery.

When changing my battery today it was an OEM battery, but I could not find a stamp date on it to check the age. Which I thought was a little odd. Still have the battery so if anyone knows where to check it let me know.

As of now I am driving on the new battery without recoding it. I will order the Carly off amazon probably tonight, so should be recoded within the week.

Measured the voltage all the way home with no signs of any issue. Battery discharge warning has disappeared as well. As for the alternator I am going to keep monitoring things, and if I see anything out of the ordinary I will replace it.

Thanks again guys, hoping this solves my problem.

I've had excess battery discharge two mornings in a row w/ reset date & time, etc. Starts up and runs fine though. Drive 10 miles each way for work, and I push it once warmed up.

Saw your thread. I changed my battery a few months ago. Never had a chance to register it. Guess I need to order Carly now and see what's going on. Still on original TAs.

Hoping at worst it's just a result of not registering or alternator issue.

Would really prefer not to do unnecessary TA swap, especially if this is not the cause. It sounds like a way more intensive DIY, and the shop will probably fleece me for the work.

[LVI]

Originally Posted by SDPLV

I've had excess battery discharge two mornings in a row w/ reset date & time, etc. Starts up and runs fine though. Drive 10 miles each way for work, and I push it once warmed up.

Saw your thread. I changed my battery a few months ago. Never had a chance to register it. Guess I need to order Carly now and see what's going on. Still on original TAs.

Hoping at worst it's just a result of not registering or alternator issue.

Would really prefer not to do unnecessary TA swap, especially if this is not the cause. It sounds like a way more intensive DIY, and the shop will probably fleece me for the work.

for those of you planning to register with Carly, it appears to be a feature that is advertised but does not work. You're better off spending the money and paying an indy or finding someone local to register the battery for you.

Driving for months without registering an AGM battery will likely damage the battery and cut its life span significantly.

edit: see thread here http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1445273

[SDPLV]

Originally Posted by lawrence1

for those of you planning to register with Carly, it appears to be a feature that is advertised but does not work. You're better off spending the money and paying an indy or finding someone local to register the battery for you.

Driving for months without registering an AGM battery will likely damage the battery and cut its life span significantly.

edit: see thread here http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1445273

I don't mind that part considering there is a 3 year warranty on these batteries anyways.

I mean rather than 3 years, it may last 2 years and I get to swap the battery if it really goes to shit.

What I don't want is for the car to stop in the middle of the road.

[LVI]

Originally Posted by SDPLV

I don't mind that part considering there is a 3 year warranty on these batteries anyways.

I mean rather than 3 years, it may last 2 years and I get to swap the battery if it really goes to shit.

What I don't want is for the car to stop in the middle of the road.

or it could last 37 months and you'll have the privilege of buying a new one again

There's no reason why these batteries shouldn't last 6 years or more. The originals did in many cases, and AGM batteries in general tend to last a long time.

[SDPLV]

Originally Posted by lawrence1

or it could last 37 months and you'll have the privilege of buying a new one again

There's no reason why these batteries shouldn't last 6 years or more. The originals did in many cases, and AGM batteries in general tend to last a long time.

Course. That is always possible as well!

[RedScytheM3]

Originally Posted by JP10

Background
Over the last few weeks I have been having some battery or alternator issues(maybe both). Usually varies with cold weather which is all over the place here in Philly. 10 one day, then 60 the next.

Yesterday morning, I had no issues getting in my car and heading to work. On my way out to my car later that night after work the comfort access was not working, and upon getting in the car I had the battery discharge warning, so right off the bat I knew the battery was low. Started up fine, and I just wasn't thinking so I was using all sorts of things(heated seats, heat, lights were on, EDC, even used my windshield wipers/fluid to clean some salt off). Well 30 minutes down the road my car starts throwing all sorts of errors, which again I immediately thought it to be battery issues, but figured my alternator would handle it. Well it did not and eventually I rolled to a stop, car shut off, idrive went black. Went back to the battery, checked the terminals, didn't seem like there was an issue. Consistently trying to start the car for 25 mins(maybe once every 7-10mins) the car eventually started without needing a jump.

I don't currently own a voltmeter, usually just borrow one when I need one, but wanted to check my voltage obviously. Ended up finding a video that shows you how to display your voltage on your dash, which I'll attach below. Checked my voltage that night. Upon starting the car it was ~14.5V, and when turning the car off it dropped to ~12.4V. But I was still getting the battery discharge warning.

Fast forward to this morning, was hesitate to drive the car to work, but wanted to diagnose the problem more so risked it. Started without a problem, no battery discharge warning, everything seemed fine. Drove to the gas station turned the car off, again started without a problem. Drove to work (~20mins), and wanted to check my voltage. Upon checking it was hovering around 11V, so I drove it while checking for about a 1/2mile with no change(varied from 10.8V to 11.0V). Parked the car, and restarted while checking the voltage again. Upon restarting it jumped to 13.9V(after turning lights, heat, and radio off it was ~14.5V). Turning off the vehicle it eventually dropped to 12.2V, then sprung the low battery warning on me. So it seems that my alternator is working upon starting, but then eventually stops? Again not sure.

Video

Thoughts/Actions
I was confused when I checked my voltage after driving 25mins because it was so low, this leads me to thing that my alternator is not working properly, or maybe it is working off and on. My other thought is my battery is so low that it is putting excess strain on my alternator.

Now to address the battery discharge error. Could this simply be because my battery is low? I have read of other problems with the DCT(doesn't apply to me, car is 6MT), and also issues with the EDC causing this error. So first off is there a way to diagnose the EDC issue? I have also read about the positive battery connection being loose in the front power distributor behind the glove box(seems to be a DIY for this that I will attempt if need be).

I plan to replace the battery today after work, and hopefully that dismisses the issue, it just seems strange that my voltage was so low after driving for 25mins. Does this mean that my alternator is on its way out as well?

I appreciate any help, relatively new to this car so I am still learning.

-Pacy

How's your car been holding up since this all started? I have the exact same thing happening. Voltage drops, then shoots back up with a restart.

[ItsGary]

Originally Posted by RedScytheM3

How's your car been holding up since this all started? I have the exact same thing happening. Voltage drops, then shoots back up with a restart.

Alternator throws a code. How old is your battery?

[JP10]

Originally Posted by RedScytheM3

How's your car been holding up since this all started? I have the exact same thing happening. Voltage drops, then shoots back up with a restart.

Alternator was the issue. It was only working part of the time. Havent had an issue since replacing it. I did replace my battery in the process, but following that I still got the battery discharge message, alternator was definitely the culprit. DIY to replace is relatively easy.

If you're having a similar issue I would first monitor the voltage while driving this will give you an idea of if it is charging or not. I believe Carly has a monitoring option for alternator discharge. Mine would display 0 when not functioning properly.

[Route 16]

Originally Posted by JP10

Alternator was the issue. It was only working part of the time. Havent had an issue since replacing it. I did replace my battery in the process, but following that I still got the battery discharge message, alternator was definitely the culprit. DIY to replace is relatively easy.

If you're having a similar issue I would first monitor the voltage while driving this will give you an idea of if it is charging or not. I believe Carly has a monitoring option for alternator discharge. Mine would display 0 when not functioning properly.

Before replacing the alternator, did you have to recharge your battery every so often? Or leave the car alone for days/weeks on end and it wouldn't start until it was recharged?

[RedScytheM3]

Originally Posted by JP10

Alternator was the issue. It was only working part of the time. Havent had an issue since replacing it. I did replace my battery in the process, but following that I still got the battery discharge message, alternator was definitely the culprit. DIY to replace is relatively easy.

If you're having a similar issue I would first monitor the voltage while driving this will give you an idea of if it is charging or not. I believe Carly has a monitoring option for alternator discharge. Mine would display 0 when not functioning properly.

I've been testing it out for the last few days and what I found is that the battery will not charge after an initial start up with driving around. On initial start up the voltage is 12.0-12.2 and drops to 11.5-11.6 by the time the oil temp is up to running temp.

Only once I shut off the warmed up car and restart it will the voltage kick up past 13.8. After a few min of driving after the restart the voltage gets up to 13.9-14.4 and stays there, depending on what's on and what the car is doing (acceleration/deceleration/standing)

I think, like you, my alternator is looking to be swapped out.

[JP10]

Originally Posted by Route 16

Before replacing the alternator, did you have to recharge your battery every so often? Or leave the car alone for days/weeks on end and it wouldn't start until it was recharged?

I can't remember exactly because it was well over a year ago, but the problem was ongoing. I tried to fix initially by just swapping the battery, but that was a band-aid. Eventually led to the same issue. I'm fairly certain my diagnosis was accurate as the problem has not reoccured (18months later). Like I mentioned above theres an option in Carly to measure the output of your alternator and mine was measuring 0.

Originally Posted by RedScytheM3

I've been testing it out for the last few days and what I found is that the battery will not charge after an initial start up with driving around. On initial start up the voltage is 12.0-12.2 and drops to 11.5-11.6 by the time the oil temp is up to running temp.

Only once I shut off the warmed up car and restart it will the voltage kick up past 13.8. After a few min of driving after the restart the voltage gets up to 13.9-14.4 and stays there, depending on what's on and what the car is doing (acceleration/deceleration/standing)

I think, like you, my alternator is looking to be swapped out.

Sounds like the exact problem I was having. Like others in the thread mentioned it is most likely due to the voltage regulator. It was barely cheaper to replace the regulator so I opted to replace the entire alternator.

[RedScytheM3]

Hey guys I'm replacing my voltage regulator soon and wanted to double check if this is the correct one.

[pbonsalb]

I considered a regulator change, but it was about half as much as a new alternator so I figured if it did not work, I would be out 50% more money than just having bought a new alternator in the first place. If you are certain it’s the regulator, changing it makes sense.

[RedScytheM3]

Originally Posted by JP10

I can't remember exactly because it was well over a year ago, but the problem was ongoing. I tried to fix initially by just swapping the battery, but that was a band-aid. Eventually led to the same issue. I'm fairly certain my diagnosis was accurate as the problem has not reoccured (18months later). Like I mentioned above theres an option in Carly to measure the output of your alternator and mine was measuring 0.

Sounds like the exact problem I was having. Like others in the thread mentioned it is most likely due to the voltage regulator. It was barely cheaper to replace the regulator so I opted to replace the entire alternator.

I replaced the voltage regulator earlier today and still having the same problem. Now the alternator won't recharge the battery even after a warmed up restart. The brushes on the old regulator were worn down with one of them being more worn down than the other. The new regulator had only 1 brush, I'm not sure if that's going to be a problem. Every where I looked I keep seeing I had the correct Valeo regulator and right correct part number. I guess next is the alternator itself?

[pbonsalb]

Take a picture of the one brush regulator along with the stock two brush regulator. Is it one big brush? Is one of the two missing? Was it a part someone returned after knocking the first brush out on a botched DIY?

[RedScytheM3]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Take a picture of the one brush regulator along with the stock two brush regulator. Is it one big brush? Is one of the two missing? Was it a part someone returned after knocking the first brush out on a botched DIY?

I'll post a pic in a couple of days when I get back to town. It's a brand new regulator that has one big brush.

[pbonsalb]

Ok. So just a different design. Probably cheaper to make. But when you get slip ring wear and there is a raised lip between the two west paths, the one big brush might ride the lip until a groove wears into the brush. I don’t know if this could be an issue. You would see it easily if it was.

[RedScytheM3]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

Ok. So just a different design. Probably cheaper to make. But when you get slip ring wear and there is a raised lip between the two west paths, the one big brush might ride the lip until a groove wears into the brush. I don't know if this could be an issue. You would see it easily if it was.

That makes sense. There's no charging no whatsoever with the single larger brush. Wouldn't the battery start to charge once the brush makes contact with the commutator, without a groove worn into the brush? Or does the brush need to make contact with a different spot on the commutator?

[pbonsalb]

I was thinking maybe there is insufficient partial contact due to wear but you should be able to see if that is an issue. I am not an auto electrical person. Just a DIYer but I have seen alternators with badly worn slip rings. Auto electric shops will rebuild with new slip rings if they can get the parts. I have no idea whether they are available or whether this is an issue.

You did check the engine ground strap from the oil pan to frame rail?

[RedScytheM3]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I was thinking maybe there is insufficient partial contact due to wear but you should be able to see if that is an issue. I am not an auto electrical person. Just a DIYer but I have seen alternators with badly worn slip rings. Auto electric shops will rebuild with new slip rings if they can get the parts. I have no idea whether they are available or whether this is an issue.

You did check the engine ground strap from the oil pan to frame rail?

Yeah that makes sense. If the contact is not firm enough it might not work.

No, I forgot to check that before getting out from under the car. I'll check on that later this week when I get back under.

I'm also wondering if the positive battery terminal fix from the recall is at play here. I'll schedule an appointment to get that issue fixed sometime next week too.