BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board > Politics/Religion
 
Steve Thomas BMW
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-16-2017, 07:22 PM   #89
Fundguy1
Major General
Fundguy1's Avatar
1962
Rep
8,330
Posts

Drives: 335 e93
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orlando, fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Change.
Such a joke. The only terror I see here is the terror that you experience that your opinion about EVs taking over the world might be incorrect which manifests itself in your fanatical defense and inability to counter valid EV shortcomings with anything but you're just scared. The reality is its too soon to see if technology will economically be able to overcome a host of complex challenges that are currently without a solution. You used the horse as an example of old tech. The ICE is superior to a horse I'm most ways, therefore it superseded it. EV is the equal to ICE csrs in some ways, doesn't supersede it in any way, but lags in many ways. When and if this balance changes it probably become the dominant technology. Is the thin the next 10 Yrs? Unlikely.
Appreciate 0
      07-16-2017, 11:57 PM   #90
JamesNoBrakes
Lieutenant Colonel
673
Rep
1,545
Posts

Drives: 428i xdrive GC
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alaska

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Such a joke. The only terror I see here is the terror that you experience that your opinion about EVs taking over the world might be incorrect which manifests itself in your fanatical defense and inability to counter valid EV shortcomings with anything but you're just scared. The reality is its too soon to see if technology will economically be able to overcome a host of complex challenges that are currently without a solution. You used the horse as an example of old tech. The ICE is superior to a horse I'm most ways, therefore it superseded it. EV is the equal to ICE csrs in some ways, doesn't supersede it in any way, but lags in many ways. When and if this balance changes it probably become the dominant technology. Is the thin the next 10 Yrs? Unlikely.
Let me show you just how ridiculous your post is:

The first horseless carriage to use ICE was invented in 1863 by Kean-Joseph Etienne Lenoir and had a top speed of 3mph. Are you going to sit there and tell me this was superior to a horse? They should have just given up on ICE and horseless carriages at this point, right? Because a horse was superior to this pile of junk in every way.

In 1903 the Wright Flyer went 852 feet. The aircraft had a maximum speed of 30mph. To put that in perspective, a thoroughbred horse can run at around 44mph for half a mile. There are faster sprints and to go further they have to slow down, but heck, half a mile is way way longer than 852 feet. I'm not even going to get into the advancements of horseless carriages here, but I assume they could go more than 852 feet as well. I guess they should have just given up on airplanes too?

And while I could go off on lots of benefits of EVs from torque to efficiency, just to drive this home further, please tell me why golf courses don't use ICEs for all of their golf carts. You just sat there and told me that an EV doesn't supersede ICE cars, so how come EV golf carts exist? I know of many plants and industrial complexes that use a variety of EVs to ferry personnel and equipment from place to place. Why aren't these all ICE engines? Attitudes like yours are the reason nothing gets better, because we are so scared to push the limits, to get to new technology. We would have never went to the moon or pushed beyond the sound barrier if we didn't push forward. People get so stuck on what they remember and what they experience that they lack the perspective to see the potential of new technology.

Are there issues with EVs? Sure. The Wright Flyer didn't travel 7000 miles or go Mach .92. The horseless carriage couldn't rely on the existing infrastructure of hay and water troughs. But these challenges were overcome, just like they will be with EVs. As it stands, EVs have finally reached the battery density to make them practical for many people. This and reasonable charge times with minimal modification for the 240v charging has made them a reality. The technology of battery density and charging will only improve, and unlike hydrogen fuel cells or other exotic methods, this relies on existing infrastructure for the most part.

Honestly, I see most of the comments about how it'll never work or how they will be off the road as the same people that were all up in arms about horseless carriages and airplanes. Yes, it's fear, fear of something new, something that doesn't conform to previous experiences, something that will change the future.
__________________
Dinan Shockware, Dinan F3x Swaybars, ACS Springs

Last edited by JamesNoBrakes; 07-17-2017 at 12:16 AM.
Appreciate 3
tdott611.00
Viffermike1577.50
Dthltm65.00

      07-17-2017, 05:47 AM   #91
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
3862
Rep
11,328
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
Change.
Ah, if people can get around the same for the same cost, I doubt they'd have an issue with using an EV. There are some people who like engines, so they'll not like EVs because it doesn't have an engine, but that's out of preference, not fear.

I had an electric garden tractor in 1973 by the way. Way better than gasoline fueled yard equipment even made today. It cost twice as much as a gas tractor of the day. Even in the gas-crisis of the early 1970's it didn't sell well because of the price. There were no Government market tax credit offsets to try and create market change.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2017, 07:35 AM   #92
Fundguy1
Major General
Fundguy1's Avatar
1962
Rep
8,330
Posts

Drives: 335 e93
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orlando, fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
Ah, if people can get around the same for the same cost, I doubt they'd have an issue with using an EV. There are some people who like engines, so they'll not like EVs because it doesn't have an engine, but that's out of preference, not fear.

I had an electric garden tractor in 1973 by the way. Way better than gasoline fueled yard equipment even made today. It cost twice as much as a gas tractor of the day. Even in the gas-crisis of the early 1970's it didn't sell well because of the price. There were no Government market tax credit offsets to try and create market change.
Correct. The notion that fear is why people don't switch to EVs is laughable. The people that do switch more than likely have out of fear. They fear the wealth redistribution hoax of climate change. Al Gore said I'd be underwater 10 years ago. He got everyone feeling guilty so they would pay carbon credits to compensate for their carbon footprint. Those carbon credits mostly went straight into his bank account making him a billionaire. That's where the real fear mongering is.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2017, 08:15 AM   #93
Obioban
Emperor
560
Rep
1,906
Posts

Drives: 05 M3, 95 M3 euro, 01 M5, e91
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Chester, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
They fear the wealth redistribution hoax of climate change.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2017, 09:23 AM   #94
JamesNoBrakes
Lieutenant Colonel
673
Rep
1,545
Posts

Drives: 428i xdrive GC
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Alaska

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Correct. The notion that fear is why people don't switch to EVs is laughable. The people that do switch more than likely have out of fear. They fear the wealth redistribution hoax of climate change. Al Gore said I'd be underwater 10 years ago. He got everyone feeling guilty so they would pay carbon credits to compensate for their carbon footprint. Those carbon credits mostly went straight into his bank account making him a billionaire. That's where the real fear mongering is.
How do I know it's fear? It's based on irrational and incorrect information. If you were to say "well, I like the sound of gasoline engines, I like the smell of exhaust, I like how how they slowly build torque", ok, then we are starting with something. If you throw out all the "EVs will never work, there batteries will die!, they are too slow, they don't go far enough, they can't be charged, they can't go cross country, the company will go out of business, the interior isn't nice enough, the sky is falling!", then your true colors start to show. Information that is either blatantly incorrect, or has technical solutions currently being pursued. Just like where you throw out all these reasons why you think it'll be dead or why it won't take over, reasons that can easily be applied for anything new that has come along. If we lived like that, we'd still be riding horses and lighting candles. Trying to bring Gore into this is a classic bait and switch attempt. Again, more fear. Guess what? It's ok to be afraid, it's a natural human defense mechanism. The important thing to do though is to not make irrational decisions based on that fear. Easier than it sounds in some cases.
__________________
Dinan Shockware, Dinan F3x Swaybars, ACS Springs
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2017, 09:34 AM   #95
NickyC
Brigadier General
NickyC's Avatar
3014
Rep
4,316
Posts

Drives: YMB M4, has a roof though. :(
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Somewhere I don't want to be

iTrader: (16)

Autonomous vehicle fails again. Of course, who knows if the driver is telling the truth. He could have been showing off the quick off the line acceleration to his friends and beached it for all we know.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...innesota-marsh
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2017, 10:29 AM   #96
Obioban
Emperor
560
Rep
1,906
Posts

Drives: 05 M3, 95 M3 euro, 01 M5, e91
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: West Chester, PA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyC View Post
Autonomous vehicle fails again. Of course, who knows if the driver is telling the truth. He could have been showing off the quick off the line acceleration to his friends and beached it for all we know.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-0...innesota-marsh
Are you implying the standard for Autonomous vehicle should be zero errors?

Because that sounds to me like a silly (and completely unrealistic) standard. How about "vastly safer than a human driver". If so, they're already there.

Nice attempt at fear mongering, though
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2017, 01:59 PM   #97
Viffermike
Colonel
Viffermike's Avatar
United_States
1578
Rep
2,827
Posts

Drives: '18 black-n-blue 718 Cayman
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Big D

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Because that sounds to me like a silly (and completely unrealistic) standard. How about "vastly safer than a human driver". If so, they're already there.
Which begs this question every time AVs come up for me:

Who, or what, will be liable for those errors?

That is the big hurdle. It's easy to blame human error for most accidents -- and the ones that aren't usually get settled or litigated.

But when humans are removed from that in an AV, who is liable? The carmaker? The software designer? The government? An element of the environment the error occurred in? Maybe even fate/God/[insert deity here]?

It's a huge gray area that no one has been able to define. Huge. Huuuuuuuge. And AVs used en masse won't become reality until someone either assumes liability or sets up a mechanism to determine liability with both consistency and an insurance component.
__________________
--Life is a journey made more exciting with a fast car.--
--Helmets are for closers.--
<<Current: "Blackened" '18 NBM Porsche 718 Cayman ... Gone (but not forgotten): "Blackened" MG '15 228i M Sport w/aFe filter/scoop, Hertz drivers, P3Cars multigauge, other goodies>>
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2017, 02:31 PM   #98
MalibuBimmer
Founder, Knights of the Roundel website
MalibuBimmer's Avatar
United_States
949
Rep
1,726
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4 and 2018 AMG GT
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Santa Monica Mountains, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 Mercedes AMG GT  [0.00]
2018 Audi Q3  [0.00]
2015 BMW M4  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbsm View Post
Again.....The 1950's were not exactly a bad time in america....not to say there were NO issues but......

And that was not all of america by any stretch of the imagination......nothing like the southern democrats (dixiecrats)

Funny how things have changed.......now the productive are tax slaves to the unproductive......but your last post and my response probably belong in a different forum
Please spare me the sour grapes you've just fermented into whine.

The highest income tax rate in the 1950s was 91%. That was when we built things for the common good, like the Interstate Highway System. And we had one of our greatest Presidents, Dwight D. Eisenhower.

We were subsequently emancipated, although since the 1960s the cost of no longer being tax slaves means that our entire infrastructure is dying and the debt we leave our children will make them tax slaves.

The only people who will benefit from this irresponsibility is our generation of selfish and irresponsible fuckwits, misled by the American oligarchs who now run one of our political parties (and don't mind at all if our government colludes with the right wing oligarchs running Russia and protected by one Vlad. Putin).
__________________
Previously: 2014 i8; 2013 650i convertible; 2013 650i Gran Coupe; 2013 X1; 2010 550i GT; 2010 535 GT; 2010 Z4 3.5; 2008 535ixt; 2007 M6 convertible; 2006 650i convertible; 1996 Z3; 1980 633CSi; 1978 630CS; 1972 3.0CS; 1971 Bavaria. (1971; 1979-2005 & 2017 - ? -- the Mercedes years.)
Appreciate 1
Dthltm65.00

      07-17-2017, 03:41 PM   #99
Domotron
Captain
Domotron's Avatar
United_States
125
Rep
665
Posts

Drives: 2014 BMW 328xi M-Sport
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: St. Louis

iTrader: (0)

its a new company so it does take a long time to start a company so for few years they will be in the loss... model 3 should make things better for them.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2017, 03:49 PM   #100
NickyC
Brigadier General
NickyC's Avatar
3014
Rep
4,316
Posts

Drives: YMB M4, has a roof though. :(
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Somewhere I don't want to be

iTrader: (16)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Are you implying the standard for Autonomous vehicle should be zero errors?

Because that sounds to me like a silly (and completely unrealistic) standard. How about "vastly safer than a human driver". If so, they're already there.

Nice attempt at fear mongering, though
I simply linked the article in a thread about Tesla. Autonomous driven vehicles are decades away (if ever) from being what you see as a majority on public roads. The tech has been greatly overhyped.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2017, 04:19 PM   #101
fbsm
Lieutenant Colonel
707
Rep
1,701
Posts

Drives: 4wheels
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: backroads

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbsm
Again.....The 1950's were not exactly a bad time in america....not to say there were NO issues but......

And that was not all of america by any stretch of the imagination......nothing like the southern democrats (dixiecrats)

Funny how things have changed.......now the productive are tax slaves to the unproductive......but your last post and my response probably belong in a different forum
Quote:
Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer View Post
Please spare me the sour grapes you've just fermented into whine.

The highest income tax rate in the 1950s was 91%. That was when we built things for the common good, like the Interstate Highway System. And we had one of our greatest Presidents, Dwight D. Eisenhower.

We were subsequently emancipated, although since the 1960s the cost of no longer being tax slaves means that our entire infrastructure is dying and the debt we leave our children will make them tax slaves.

The only people who will benefit from this irresponsibility is our generation of selfish and irresponsible fuckwits, misled by the American oligarchs who now run one of our political parties (and don't mind at all if our government colludes with the right wing oligarchs running Russia and protected by one Vlad. Putin).
Might want to take another looks at who's whining/sour grapes

Especially regarding the explosion of regulation and cost of compliance

And while you're at it scroll down to avg tax rate for each quintile in the link below.....

http://federal-tax-rates.insidegov.com/l/35/1950

If big government progressives hadnt committed future generations to pay for a mess of things that the fed gov should never have been involved in we wouldnt be in this mess......
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2017, 04:55 PM   #102
MalibuBimmer
Founder, Knights of the Roundel website
MalibuBimmer's Avatar
United_States
949
Rep
1,726
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4 and 2018 AMG GT
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Santa Monica Mountains, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 Mercedes AMG GT  [0.00]
2018 Audi Q3  [0.00]
2015 BMW M4  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbsm View Post
Might want to take another looks at who's whining/sour grapes

Especially regarding the explosion of regulation and cost of compliance

And while you're at it scroll down to avg tax rate for each quintile in the link below.....

http://federal-tax-rates.insidegov.com/l/35/1950

If big government progressives hadnt committed future generations to pay for a mess of things that the fed gov should never have been involved in we wouldnt be in this mess......
Shrink the government so that it can be drowned in a bathtub! Except for the post office, the Federal government should be responsible for nothing! And if the states don't want to do it, tough shit. Let kids go uneducated, unless their parents can afford it. Let medical costs be unattainable for the middle and lower classes. Let the oligarchs run the country!

No thanks.

The modern state is certainly larger than the agrarian ideal of the Founding Fathers, but they used slaves, real slaves not tax slaves, to keep their society going. Today we have a real middle class, and people with needs. The modern state is not what libertarians hope and pray for, but libertarianism has always failed wherever it has been tried. Indeed the only healthy modern states today, are in socialist countries in Scandanavia and mixed economies like Australia, Canada and New Zealand. They have their share of right wing and libertarian nuts, but for the most part are well-educated, not riven by superstitious fundies with actual political power, and their countries are decent places to live. Without guns and violence punctuating their daily lives.

I harken back to the days of President Eisenhower when good government Republicans joined with non Dixiecrat Democrats to run a country that was full of optimism and promise. And was starting to fulfill that promise. The only blot on progress, and it was a real stain, was the failure of that political system to deal honestly and forthrightly with civil rights.

I don't whine. But I find those who defend oligarchs and political manipulation of the economically disadvantaged to be truly selfish and the bane of an equitable modern society.
__________________
Previously: 2014 i8; 2013 650i convertible; 2013 650i Gran Coupe; 2013 X1; 2010 550i GT; 2010 535 GT; 2010 Z4 3.5; 2008 535ixt; 2007 M6 convertible; 2006 650i convertible; 1996 Z3; 1980 633CSi; 1978 630CS; 1972 3.0CS; 1971 Bavaria. (1971; 1979-2005 & 2017 - ? -- the Mercedes years.)
Appreciate 1
Dthltm65.00

      07-17-2017, 06:02 PM   #103
Fundguy1
Major General
Fundguy1's Avatar
1962
Rep
8,330
Posts

Drives: 335 e93
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orlando, fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
How do I know it's fear? It's based on irrational and incorrect information. If you were to say "well, I like the sound of gasoline engines, I like the smell of exhaust, I like how how they slowly build torque", ok, then we are starting with something. If you throw out all the "EVs will never work, there batteries will die!, they are too slow, they don't go far enough, they can't be charged, they can't go cross country, the company will go out of business, the interior isn't nice enough, the sky is falling!", then your true colors start to show. Information that is either blatantly incorrect, or has technical solutions currently being pursued. Just like where you throw out all these reasons why you think it'll be dead or why it won't take over, reasons that can easily be applied for anything new that has come along. If we lived like that, we'd still be riding horses and lighting candles. Trying to bring Gore into this is a classic bait and switch attempt. Again, more fear. Guess what? It's ok to be afraid, it's a natural human defense mechanism. The important thing to do though is to not make irrational decisions based on that fear. Easier than it sounds in some cases.
There's the stupid horse analogy again. It's really silly. If EVs were better in any way than ICE you could start to make that claim, but the simple fact is they aren't, so why is this "progress"?
Appreciate 1
Efthreeoh3862.00

      07-17-2017, 07:31 PM   #104
Fundguy1
Major General
Fundguy1's Avatar
1962
Rep
8,330
Posts

Drives: 335 e93
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orlando, fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Which begs this question every time AVs come up for me:

Who, or what, will be liable for those errors?

That is the big hurdle. It's easy to blame human error for most accidents -- and the ones that aren't usually get settled or litigated.

But when humans are removed from that in an AV, who is liable? The carmaker? The software designer? The government? An element of the environment the error occurred in? Maybe even fate/God/[insert deity here]?

It's a huge gray area that no one has been able to define. Huge. Huuuuuuuge. And AVs used en masse won't become reality until someone either assumes liability or sets up a mechanism to determine liability with both consistency and an insurance component.
The driver and the car maker. It is the drivers responsibly to monitor whats going on and if the car maker certifies the car as safe but the car screws up they are liable too.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2017, 07:34 PM   #105
Fundguy1
Major General
Fundguy1's Avatar
1962
Rep
8,330
Posts

Drives: 335 e93
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orlando, fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer View Post
Shrink the government so that it can be drowned in a bathtub! Except for the post office, the Federal government should be responsible for nothing! And if the states don't want to do it, tough shit. Let kids go uneducated, unless their parents can afford it. Let medical costs be unattainable for the middle and lower classes. Let the oligarchs run the country!

No thanks.

The modern state is certainly larger than the agrarian ideal of the Founding Fathers, but they used slaves, real slaves not tax slaves, to keep their society going. Today we have a real middle class, and people with needs. The modern state is not what libertarians hope and pray for, but libertarianism has always failed wherever it has been tried. Indeed the only healthy modern states today, are in socialist countries in Scandanavia and mixed economies like Australia, Canada and New Zealand. They have their share of right wing and libertarian nuts, but for the most part are well-educated, not riven by superstitious fundies with actual political power, and their countries are decent places to live. Without guns and violence punctuating their daily lives.

I harken back to the days of President Eisenhower when good government Republicans joined with non Dixiecrat Democrats to run a country that was full of optimism and promise. And was starting to fulfill that promise. The only blot on progress, and it was a real stain, was the failure of that political system to deal honestly and forthrightly with civil rights.

I don't whine. But I find those who defend oligarchs and political manipulation of the economically disadvantaged to be truly selfish and the bane of an equitable modern society.
Wow, your socialist educators brain washed you well.

Let's break down what you posted piece by piece with facts.
1. Education is paid for. In fact over paid for as we spend 3 times more than other nations on lower education but aren't even in the top 20 list af nations in terms of effectiveness. Why? Teacher unions forcing schools to keep bad teachers and high wages, and the government monopolizing education instead of allowing kids to attend better run, more effective cheaper schools through using a voucher. Higher education has never been free, but the current costs are astronomical. Why? Because the government keeps increasing the subsidies so they can keep increasing tuition. There is no reason schools should be increasing their tuition at 8% annually while inflation is long term at 3% and for the past decade effectively zero. Dems like the system now as it indoctrinated to a liberal point of view and they can but votes with tuition money. What should be done is eliminate government unions completely and eliminate federal college subsidies to universities who raise tuition faster than inflation.
2.real slaves and the agrarian state were the south. The north was middle class and without slaves as a meaningful input. I seem to remember a civil war that banned slaves. I also noticed the country survived quite well to become a world super power without them and also without federal income tax. The irs and the taxes came much later.
3. Those socialist countries do not have the healthy economy that we have. Canada has way more debt and way less production than the US per capita for example. They survive off of marta and shirking their nato responsibilities and poor healthcare system.
4. Guns protect people. They give the weak a chance to survive. Millions of crimes, murders, raped, are prevented by good people with guns annually. Is this reported? The cities and states with the toughest gum ownership laws have the highest gun crimes. The liberals are the ones who release gun crime felons to repeat their crimes. 90% of gun crimes are committed by felons with gun crime convictions. Just ask the Chicago PD or the Scandinavian women terrorized by Muslim refugee gangs who have raped them.
5.taxes were so high in the 50s because they were paying off 2 big wars, not little ones like today. The money was not sent to the poor as wealth redistribution. To the contrary, the welfare system, medicade, food stamps, etc didn't exist. Jim Crowe and blacks not having the right to vote did, with the right to vote being stopped by democrats led by Al Gore's father and enforced by the democrats strong arm the kkk. Martin Luther King and a majority of blacks voted Republican until the civil rights act and the war on poverty were pushed through by republicans, not democrats, and LBJgot the credit for it while joking it'll have those *****rs voting for us for the next 200 years.

If we want to get out economy going again, raise the standard worldwide of the economy, safety, technology, medicine, we need to lower taxes dramatically, set up fair trade deals, fix or abandon obamacare, address education issues correctly, allow cross state health insurance, do tort reform, allow private savings accounts in social security, cut back on social programs, and create jobs that pay real money.

Two saying you forget. The Soviets, which failed using the system you pontificate about said we pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us. Margaret Thatcher said socialism is great until you run out of other people's money. The United States went to war to stop socialism. It's called WW2. They also went to war against communism, effectively the same thing. It was called the cold war.

These are but a few facts, not opinions you may not have been taught.

Last edited by Fundguy1; 07-17-2017 at 08:39 PM.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2017, 08:11 PM   #106
MalibuBimmer
Founder, Knights of the Roundel website
MalibuBimmer's Avatar
United_States
949
Rep
1,726
Posts

Drives: 2015 M4 and 2018 AMG GT
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Santa Monica Mountains, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 Mercedes AMG GT  [0.00]
2018 Audi Q3  [0.00]
2015 BMW M4  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundguy1 View Post
Wow, your socialist educators brain washed you well.
Damn straight they did. Do you like the mess we're in now? We can't educate or take care of our own people, let alone the infrastructure that made us great. The great public works programs of the 1950s and 1960s now were all wrong, according to the neo right. Government shouldn't have done anything. And I'm a socialist. Right.

We're the richest, most powerful democracy on earth. And we have people starving and other going broke because they can't get medical care. (We've also become a client state of Russia, beholden to its oligarchs and Vlad. Putin.)
__________________
Previously: 2014 i8; 2013 650i convertible; 2013 650i Gran Coupe; 2013 X1; 2010 550i GT; 2010 535 GT; 2010 Z4 3.5; 2008 535ixt; 2007 M6 convertible; 2006 650i convertible; 1996 Z3; 1980 633CSi; 1978 630CS; 1972 3.0CS; 1971 Bavaria. (1971; 1979-2005 & 2017 - ? -- the Mercedes years.)
Appreciate 2
Red Bread1865.50
Dthltm65.00

      07-17-2017, 08:14 PM   #107
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
3862
Rep
11,328
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
Which begs this question every time AVs come up for me:

Who, or what, will be liable for those errors?

That is the big hurdle. It's easy to blame human error for most accidents -- and the ones that aren't usually get settled or litigated.

But when humans are removed from that in an AV, who is liable? The carmaker? The software designer? The government? An element of the environment the error occurred in? Maybe even fate/God/[insert deity here]?

It's a huge gray area that no one has been able to define. Huge. Huuuuuuuge. And AVs used en masse won't become reality until someone either assumes liability or sets up a mechanism to determine liability with both consistency and an insurance component.
Excellent post.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.
Appreciate 1
Viffermike1577.50

      07-17-2017, 08:19 PM   #108
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
3862
Rep
11,328
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer View Post
Shrink the government so that it can be drowned in a bathtub! Except for the post office, the Federal government should be responsible for nothing! And if the states don't want to do it, tough shit. Let kids go uneducated, unless their parents can afford it. Let medical costs be unattainable for the middle and lower classes. Let the oligarchs run the country!

No thanks.

The modern state is certainly larger than the agrarian ideal of the Founding Fathers, but they used slaves, real slaves not tax slaves, to keep their society going. Today we have a real middle class, and people with needs. The modern state is not what libertarians hope and pray for, but libertarianism has always failed wherever it has been tried. Indeed the only healthy modern states today, are in socialist countries in Scandanavia and mixed economies like Australia, Canada and New Zealand. They have their share of right wing and libertarian nuts, but for the most part are well-educated, not riven by superstitious fundies with actual political power, and their countries are decent places to live. Without guns and violence punctuating their daily lives.

I harken back to the days of President Eisenhower when good government Republicans joined with non Dixiecrat Democrats to run a country that was full of optimism and promise. And was starting to fulfill that promise. The only blot on progress, and it was a real stain, was the failure of that political system to deal honestly and forthrightly with civil rights.

I don't whine. But I find those who defend oligarchs and political manipulation of the economically disadvantaged to be truly selfish and the bane of an equitable modern society.
Ah, the 'ole our White forefathers were slave owners, so the country and constitution is bogus (to quote Jeff Spicoli).
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.
Appreciate 1
fbsm707.00

      07-17-2017, 08:20 PM   #109
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
3862
Rep
11,328
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer View Post
Damn straight they did. Do you like the mess we're in now? We can't educate or take care of our own people, let alone the infrastructure that made us great. The great public works programs of the 1950s and 1960s now were all wrong, according to the neo right. Government shouldn't have done anything. And I'm a socialist. Right.

We're the richest, most powerful democracy on earth. And we have people starving and other going broke because they can't get medical care. (We've also become a client state of Russia, beholden to its oligarchs and Vlad. Putin.)
People (who are without defect) are supposed to take care of themselves. The obligation of the Government is to create an economic system to allow them to do so.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.
Appreciate 0
      07-17-2017, 08:40 PM   #110
Fundguy1
Major General
Fundguy1's Avatar
1962
Rep
8,330
Posts

Drives: 335 e93
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Orlando, fl

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer View Post
Damn straight they did. Do you like the mess we're in now? We can't educate or take care of our own people, let alone the infrastructure that made us great. The great public works programs of the 1950s and 1960s now were all wrong, according to the neo right. Government shouldn't have done anything. And I'm a socialist. Right.

We're the richest, most powerful democracy on earth. And we have people starving and other going broke because they can't get medical care. (We've also become a client state of Russia, beholden to its oligarchs and Vlad. Putin.)
See above and actually learn something.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:09 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST