335i automatic v. M-DCT

ajminn · 11-24-2008, 01:18 PM

This is NOT a 335i v. M3 thread! I think both cars have their merits, and I can appreciate both of them. Having never owned a BMW, I'd be happy with either. The question I have is in regards to the transmissions.

I was lucky enough to get in a single drive on a e93 335 through BMW's Ultimate Drive Event. The M3 wasn't available (apparently, it's gone through 6 clutches and a transmission

) The 335 was amazing though. I was actually really surprised on how responsive the automatic transmission was. The downshifting rev-matching had me grinning, and the upshifts weren't as laggy as I thought they would be. With all that said, it's still an automatic. I did feel some of the lag with the upshifts. And I know I'm losing some of the power through a torque converter.

How is the M-DCT compared to the 335's automatic? Is there a noticeable difference? I like the convenience of the DCT's D-mode, but if the shifting feels as muddled as the 335's automatic, then it seems the 6MT might be a better choice for me. Stop and go traffic is a pain, but I'd rather have the 6MT then have a transmission that feels like the 335's automatic. Thoughts? Anyone move from a 335 automatic to the DCT? Thanks in advance guys.

I still have a grin across my face from driving the 335. I can't believe how smooth the engine felt. Too bad it didn't have the 8400 redline.

Blake · 11-24-2008, 01:23 PM

335 automatic is just another run-of-the-mill slushbox. dct is a completely different transmission. you think you enjoyed "rev matching" in a 335, you'll have a completely different idea of what rev matching really is with dct.

urbo73 · 11-24-2008, 02:19 PM

DCT is totally different. But I find it funny when people talk about matching revs, when in fact they aren't doing anything but clicking the left paddle LOL...In a 6MT you get to match revs when downshifting. A lost art..

ajminn · 11-24-2008, 02:32 PM

haha. yeah, rev matching by just clicking a left paddle does seem too "easy." i feel like i've only REALLY successfully heel-toed a couple of times, but it does feel great when you get it right. i'm still on the fence with 6MT and DCT. with 6MT, i know i'm going to have fun rowing the gears, but i know there are going to be times where i'm going to hate it when i'm stuck in traffic. with the DCT, i'm worried that i'm going to get "bored" and the novelty of the transmission is going to wear off, but at the same time, i'm going to love having D-modes when i'm stuck in that same traffic.

Year's_End · 11-24-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbo73

DCT is totally different. But I find it funny when people talk about matching revs, when in fact they aren't doing anything but clicking the left paddle LOL...In a 6MT you get to match revs when downshifting. A lost art..

He said he likes how the downshifts were rev-matched. Don't talk so high and mighty just cuz you've got a 6mt.

ase2dais · 11-24-2008, 02:52 PM

its not the same AJ!
.. totally day and night difference. I like to explain further but Im lazy.
just drive one

mitch_e90 · 11-24-2008, 02:56 PM

ajminn, there' s just no way anyone can explain to you how driving the m3-dkg feels.

What you should do instead is head to your dealer and ask for a test drive.

ajminn · 11-24-2008, 02:59 PM

no dct cars in the area i'm in. at least none locally.

E90ice · 11-24-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakepilot

335 automatic is just another run-of-the-mill slushbox. dct is a completely different transmission. you think you enjoyed "rev matching" in a 335, you'll have a completely different idea of what rev matching really is with dct.

DCT is great if you can get it to downshift properly under hard braking....

surprisingly, the 335 "run-of-the-mill slushbox" can do that just fine....

Year's_End · 11-24-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakepilot

335 automatic is just another run-of-the-mill slushbox. dct is a completely different transmission. you think you enjoyed "rev matching" in a 335, you'll have a completely different idea of what rev matching really is with dct.

it's definitely no DCT, but that's a gross exaggeration.

ajminn · 11-24-2008, 03:05 PM

the 335's automatic is DEFINITELY more responsive than other slushboxes out there. recently drove a TL-S and it's automatic transmission was definitely less responsive than the 335's.

urbo73 · 11-24-2008, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

He said he likes how the downshifts were rev-matched. Don't talk so high and mighty just cuz you've got a 6mt.

Easy there fella! I was addressing the 2nd post. Besides, I talk high and mighty because I have an M3 and not 335i

MrAdams · 11-24-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbo73

Easy there fella! I was addressing the 2nd post. Besides, I talk high and mighty because I have an M3 and not 335i

Oh snap son!!!! "...Heard that"

Year's_End · 11-24-2008, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbo73

Easy there fella! I was addressing the 2nd post. Besides, I talk high and mighty because I have an M3 and not 335i

Blake · 11-24-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer Loyalist

it's definitely no DCT, but that's a gross exaggeration.

how? it's a slushbox with paddles. whoopty doo. i've driven plenty of steptronic 335's and the shifts are no more impressive than the next shiftable automatic. most automatic transmissions in passenger cars these days have caught up to steptronic-like technology, so what makes it different than a run of the mill slushbox? the dct is in a whole different realm of performance than the steptronic is. the original comparison is another crazy comparison with the likes of the epic 335 vs m3 discussion.

NewM3driver · 11-24-2008, 04:23 PM

The difference is the automatic transmission in the 335 is a proven system that is reliable and works very well.

The DCT in the M3 is brand new technology that still has a lot of bugs in it. Folks that pay extra for this new wizardry are participating in test marketing the new product for BMW. They drive the car, report the failures and shortcomings to BMW, surrender their car to the service department for several days a month, and cry about it with each other on this forum.

Blake · 11-24-2008, 04:24 PM

mine works just fine....

Kobaiyashi · 11-24-2008, 04:37 PM

I'll echo the above and say that the 335i auto box is very nice for an auto. I particularly liked how it would really hold the gears in "s" mode. That being said, the DCT is quite a different experience as the shifts are pretty instantanous, blips very nicely, and you generally have total control over the gears (I thought the downshifting problem E90ice mentioned had been addressed with the latest update). Very fun on the test drive cause it makes you feel like a pro.

I own a 6MT (FTW!) so can't speak to this directly, but I know with other manufactuers the major complaint about dual clutch trannys is that they are a bit of a pain/jerky/may stall when going very slow (i.e. creeping forward at an intersection or parking). Perhaps a search or DCT owner can speak to that. I think CNET's review of the DCT (yes, I know they are not car guys) mentioned this problem.

Nonetheless, I've read that the auto mode on DCT is good, that DCT cars return faster times as you have almost no power loss during shifts, that the throttle blips are amazing (CNET video gives a nice sample of that), and its probably less of a pain in traffic.

From reading your post, I'd suggest you change the question to ask DCT owners how they would compare the auto feature on the DCT to the 335i's auto. Otherwise I'd guess everyone will mostly address the manual shifting abilities of the DCT.

Lastly, while DCT is amazing, I wouldn't give that much weight when deciding between a 335 auto and an M3 DCT. Just my 0.02!

Kobaiyashi · 11-24-2008, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakepilot

how? it's a slushbox with paddles. whoopty doo. i've driven plenty of steptronic 335's and the shifts are no more impressive than the next shiftable automatic. most automatic transmissions in passenger cars these days have caught up to steptronic-like technology, so what makes it different than a run of the mill slushbox? the dct is in a whole different realm of performance than the steptronic is. the original comparison is another crazy comparison with the likes of the epic 335 vs m3 discussion.

I agree with you for the most part. However, I think the S mode is pretty darn good on the 335 auto, not for its shifting ability, but its holding of gears/engine braking. Certainly does not feel like a manual though... especially when compared to the auto trannies in the C63 or IS-F.

Year's_End · 11-24-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakepilot

how? it's a slushbox with paddles. whoopty doo. i've driven plenty of steptronic 335's and the shifts are no more impressive than the next shiftable automatic. most automatic transmissions in passenger cars these days have caught up to steptronic-like technology, so what makes it different than a run of the mill slushbox? the dct is in a whole different realm of performance than the steptronic is. the original comparison is another crazy comparison with the likes of the epic 335 vs m3 discussion.

apparently you have extremely high standards for "run-of-the-mill-slushboxes". go drive a civic. we have one of those. it's ignorant to even suggest that it's close in performance to the 335i's getrag unit. go drive an accord, or a 350z, or a C300, blah blah you get the picture.

only the latest autos have measured up to and/or exceeded the steptronic, aka AMG's new Speedshift+, or the Lexus IS-F's 8spd auto.

that's how.

Ronin13 · 11-24-2008, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E90ice

DCT is great if you can get it to downshift properly under hard braking....

surprisingly, the 335 "run-of-the-mill slushbox" can do that just fine....

I agree that was a major issue. However, there have been no threshold braking DCT downshift issues reported after the 31.1 update.

FStop7 · 11-24-2008, 08:27 PM

I haven't driven an auto 335 but I have driven an auto 135i, which I assume is the same transmission. I thought it was pretty good, as automatics go. In some ways I liked it better than SMG2, which I had on my first E46 M3, and it had a lot of drawbacks that made me start to hate it after a while.

11-24-2008, 01:18 PM	#1
ajminn Private 10 Rep 66 Posts Drives: e90 m3 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NC iTrader: (0)	335i automatic v. M-DCT This is NOT a 335i v. M3 thread! I think both cars have their merits, and I can appreciate both of them. Having never owned a BMW, I'd be happy with either. The question I have is in regards to the transmissions. I was lucky enough to get in a single drive on a e93 335 through BMW's Ultimate Drive Event. The M3 wasn't available (apparently, it's gone through 6 clutches and a transmission ) The 335 was amazing though. I was actually really surprised on how responsive the automatic transmission was. The downshifting rev-matching had me grinning, and the upshifts weren't as laggy as I thought they would be. With all that said, it's still an automatic. I did feel some of the lag with the upshifts. And I know I'm losing some of the power through a torque converter. How is the M-DCT compared to the 335's automatic? Is there a noticeable difference? I like the convenience of the DCT's D-mode, but if the shifting feels as muddled as the 335's automatic, then it seems the 6MT might be a better choice for me. Stop and go traffic is a pain, but I'd rather have the 6MT then have a transmission that feels like the 335's automatic. Thoughts? Anyone move from a 335 automatic to the DCT? Thanks in advance guys. I still have a grin across my face from driving the 335. I can't believe how smooth the engine felt. Too bad it didn't have the 8400 redline.
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11-24-2008, 01:23 PM	#2
Blake Banned 764 Rep 4,649 Posts Drives: Chevy Aveo Join Date: May 2008 Location: Parent's Basement iTrader: (7)	335 automatic is just another run-of-the-mill slushbox. dct is a completely different transmission. you think you enjoyed "rev matching" in a 335, you'll have a completely different idea of what rev matching really is with dct.
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11-24-2008, 02:19 PM	#3
urbo73 Captain 58 Rep 754 Posts Drives: 2021 BMW M340i xDrive Join Date: May 2006 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	DCT is totally different. But I find it funny when people talk about matching revs, when in fact they aren't doing anything but clicking the left paddle LOL...In a 6MT you get to match revs when downshifting. A lost art..
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11-24-2008, 02:32 PM	#4
ajminn Private 10 Rep 66 Posts Drives: e90 m3 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NC iTrader: (0)	haha. yeah, rev matching by just clicking a left paddle does seem too "easy." i feel like i've only REALLY successfully heel-toed a couple of times, but it does feel great when you get it right. i'm still on the fence with 6MT and DCT. with 6MT, i know i'm going to have fun rowing the gears, but i know there are going to be times where i'm going to hate it when i'm stuck in traffic. with the DCT, i'm worried that i'm going to get "bored" and the novelty of the transmission is going to wear off, but at the same time, i'm going to love having D-modes when i'm stuck in that same traffic.
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11-24-2008, 02:52 PM	#6
ase2dais //Mdicted 348 Rep 9,988 Posts Drives: a Cop Magnet Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: 495 Ring iTrader: (18) Garage List 2009 e92 M3 DCT CF ... [10.00] 2015 S-Works Roubaix [0.00] 2013 Trek Madone 5.9 [9.50] 2012 Scott - CR1-Pro [10.00] 2008 e92 M3 6MT (Up ... [10.00] 2002 e46 M3 Cabriol ... [7.00] 2006 e90-325i (DD) [7.00] 2002 e39 M5 (retired) [9.50]	its not the same AJ! .. totally day and night difference. I like to explain further but Im lazy. just drive one __________________ Oo\(lll)'(lll)/oO : 2009-e92 ///M3 SpaceGry DCT CF Rf/Trim ZTP ZPP ZCW Sat/PrmSd : \_lOOl___lOOl_/<< Clickies
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11-24-2008, 02:56 PM	#7
mitch_e90 Enlisted Member 1 Rep 36 Posts Drives: e90 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Europe iTrader: (0)	ajminn, there' s just no way anyone can explain to you how driving the m3-dkg feels. What you should do instead is head to your dealer and ask for a test drive.
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11-24-2008, 02:59 PM	#8
ajminn Private 10 Rep 66 Posts Drives: e90 m3 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NC iTrader: (0)	no dct cars in the area i'm in. at least none locally.
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11-24-2008, 03:05 PM	#11
ajminn Private 10 Rep 66 Posts Drives: e90 m3 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NC iTrader: (0)	the 335's automatic is DEFINITELY more responsive than other slushboxes out there. recently drove a TL-S and it's automatic transmission was definitely less responsive than the 335's.
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11-24-2008, 04:23 PM	#16
NewM3driver Colonel 1110 Rep 2,007 Posts Drives: 2017 M3 ZCP Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: CT iTrader: (0)	The difference is the automatic transmission in the 335 is a proven system that is reliable and works very well. The DCT in the M3 is brand new technology that still has a lot of bugs in it. Folks that pay extra for this new wizardry are participating in test marketing the new product for BMW. They drive the car, report the failures and shortcomings to BMW, surrender their car to the service department for several days a month, and cry about it with each other on this forum.
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11-24-2008, 04:24 PM	#17
Blake Banned 764 Rep 4,649 Posts Drives: Chevy Aveo Join Date: May 2008 Location: Parent's Basement iTrader: (7)	mine works just fine....
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11-24-2008, 04:37 PM	#18
Kobaiyashi First Lieutenant 30 Rep 315 Posts Drives: 08 E90 M3 (JetBlack/FoxRedExt) Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: East Bay, CA iTrader: (0)	I'll echo the above and say that the 335i auto box is very nice for an auto. I particularly liked how it would really hold the gears in "s" mode. That being said, the DCT is quite a different experience as the shifts are pretty instantanous, blips very nicely, and you generally have total control over the gears (I thought the downshifting problem E90ice mentioned had been addressed with the latest update). Very fun on the test drive cause it makes you feel like a pro. I own a 6MT (FTW!) so can't speak to this directly, but I know with other manufactuers the major complaint about dual clutch trannys is that they are a bit of a pain/jerky/may stall when going very slow (i.e. creeping forward at an intersection or parking). Perhaps a search or DCT owner can speak to that. I think CNET's review of the DCT (yes, I know they are not car guys) mentioned this problem. Nonetheless, I've read that the auto mode on DCT is good, that DCT cars return faster times as you have almost no power loss during shifts, that the throttle blips are amazing (CNET video gives a nice sample of that), and its probably less of a pain in traffic. From reading your post, I'd suggest you change the question to ask DCT owners how they would compare the auto feature on the DCT to the 335i's auto. Otherwise I'd guess everyone will mostly address the manual shifting abilities of the DCT. Lastly, while DCT is amazing, I wouldn't give that much weight when deciding between a 335 auto and an M3 DCT. Just my 0.02! __________________
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11-24-2008, 08:27 PM	#22
FStop7 I like cars 331 Rep 5,052 Posts Drives: M6 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Newbury Park, CA iTrader: (3)	I haven't driven an auto 335 but I have driven an auto 135i, which I assume is the same transmission. I thought it was pretty good, as automatics go. In some ways I liked it better than SMG2, which I had on my first E46 M3, and it had a lot of drawbacks that made me start to hate it after a while.
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