Track forum general chit chat.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

From what I understand most recently about the status of SRF, Castrol has raised the wholesale price of the fluid. So the days of $65-69/retail priced bottle are over. Looking at more like $80+ moving forward. Also, seems like they’re allocating shipments. My friend that’s a parts supplier told me yesterday when I got some from him that they have been sending him a few bottles at a time. He got 6 bottles this week (4 cause I bought 2 lol). Maybe the supply issue will be solved in the next month or so, but hard to say... I may try the endless fluid after these bottles are used up if it’s still difficult to get ahold of.

well, you mostly do autocross competitions, right? i'd be more likely to experiment with other fluids, like a fluid that might have a lower wet boiling point, but less compressibility. i don't know if that would help with auto cross or not, but you get what i'm saying. same with pads.
i was talking with a brake pad manufacturer the other day and they make pads to have better characteristics for autocross where the temps might not be super high, but the performance is there.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

well, you mostly do autocross competitions, right? i'd be more likely to experiment with other fluids, like a fluid that might have a lower wet boiling point, but less compressibility. i don't know if that would help with auto cross or not, but you get what i'm saying. same with pads.
i was talking with a brake pad manufacturer the other day and they make pads to have better characteristics for autocross where the temps might not be super high, but the performance is there.

1x/month HPDE's and probably adding in some time trials this year, plus autocross, so kind of a mixed bag for me haha. A couple of my friends are going to try the Endless fluid and report back and then I'll decide from there.

[kpaso]

Anyone have an apex pro that they want to get rid of?

[OG Shark]

Season opener for NASA Texas this weekend. Don't want to come across as overconfident - just I'm feeling really, really good about ST3. I just don't see how anyone is going to be able to stop me from taking first in my class. Feeling super strong going in - nevermind the small detail that I am the only one signed up in my class...

Now TT3 on the other hand - I just knew I was a shoe in to podium there for awhile. Then the 4th person signed up

For you ST3/TT3 folks - is this not a very popular class - particularly in Texas? Not overly concerned about the small turnout in T3 for this weekend - my goals/priorities for this weekend are to walk away with my comp license, as a better driver, and with a good understanding of where the new build is at. I will always be disappointed if I do not win - but I certainly recognize the reality that where I am at as a driver and having a very new build are not conducive to winning yet. Just curious if this participation level is normal moving forward - for when I hopefully have my feet under me and can be competitive.

[Kelse92]

I don’t think that’s the case, there’s several people here in N TX running those classes, TT3 especially. I think the challenge is a lot of people from DFW can’t always make it down to Houston.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Season opener for NASA Texas this weekend. Don't want to come across as overconfident - just I'm feeling really, really good about ST3. I just don't see how anyone is going to be able to stop me from taking first in my class. Feeling super strong going in - nevermind the small detail that I am the only one signed up in my class...

Now TT3 on the other hand - I just knew I was a shoe in to podium there for awhile. Then the 4th person signed up

For you ST3/TT3 folks - is this not a very popular class - particularly in Texas? Not overly concerned about the small turnout in T3 for this weekend - my goals/priorities for this weekend are to walk away with my comp license, as a better driver, and with a good understanding of where the new build is at. I will always be disappointed if I do not win - but I certainly recognize the reality that where I am at as a driver and having a very new build are not conducive to winning yet. Just curious if this participation level is normal moving forward - for when I hopefully have my feet under me and can be competitive.

I have been seeing TT3 dwindle a bit over the years but hoping for a resurgence. ST2/TT2 usually has a good turnout so you may look here long term .

[XCUSE_M3]

Originally Posted by OG Shark

Season opener for NASA Texas this weekend. Don't want to come across as overconfident - just I'm feeling really, really good about ST3. I just don't see how anyone is going to be able to stop me from taking first in my class. Feeling super strong going in - nevermind the small detail that I am the only one signed up in my class...

Now TT3 on the other hand - I just knew I was a shoe in to podium there for awhile. Then the 4th person signed up

For you ST3/TT3 folks - is this not a very popular class - particularly in Texas? Not overly concerned about the small turnout in T3 for this weekend - my goals/priorities for this weekend are to walk away with my comp license, as a better driver, and with a good understanding of where the new build is at. I will always be disappointed if I do not win - but I certainly recognize the reality that where I am at as a driver and having a very new build are not conducive to winning yet. Just curious if this participation level is normal moving forward - for when I hopefully have my feet under me and can be competitive.

I will be at MSRC in March but that will be TT3 no ST for me don't have a cage and what not. Hopefully we can get a good amount of TT3 guys in March.

[Ximian]

Question for the club instructors -

Is there some number of events that's being required before moving a student to a solo or advanced group? Because that seems to be the case with me as I'm told I can't attend a lapping day due to my lack of experience and events. This group typically has one event per year. So do I have to wait a decade or so before being allowed on track alone? The feedback from my instructors didn't include anything negative as far as safety is concerned or negative in general.

All this experience is doing is pushing me to give up on the clubs and stick with the other groups that only do solos even if I don't like the way they do some things. I've done several solo events at the track already so it's not a lack of experience at the track.

[kyippee]

Not an instructor but the group I typically run with measures it as total HPDE event days, not just their own events.

The minimum is >20 days to be in an open passing group, and they have two open groups- one for faster cars and one for slower cars.

Each open group has maximum (be faster than xyz) pacing guidance and people are subject to being dropped down to a point by run group for being dangerous/unaware or too much off-pace.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Question for the club instructors -

Is there some number of events that's being required before moving a student to a solo or advanced group? Because that seems to be the case with me as I'm told I can't attend a lapping day due to my lack of experience and events. This group typically has one event per year. So do I have to wait a decade or so before being allowed on track alone? The feedback from my instructors didn't include anything negative as far as safety is concerned or negative in general.

All this experience is doing is pushing me to give up on the clubs and stick with the other groups that only do solos even if I don't like the way they do some things. I've done several solo events at the track already so it's not a lack of experience at the track.

BMWCCA is a pain and almost always wants an instructor in the car with you.

PCA varies, but the groups are:
Green, beginner. Always instructed
Blue, beginner-intermediate. This group can be solo'd for a day/weekend depending on their instructor .
White, intermediate. Not instructed
Black, advanced. Not instructed
Red, advanted+. Not instructed.

You need to do several events with PCA, even if it's with different regions, in order to move to blue. And it isn't only about events, it's about skill/speed/manners/car control.

I feel PCA puts together good events. Well structured, no shenanigans, good instructor program.

[b4hand]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

BMWCCA is a pain and almost always wants an instructor in the car with you.

So is BMWCCA worth it? Here in Texas we have no shortage of track day groups, but I know BMWCCA offers a racing school that sounds interesting forr a newb like me.

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by b4hand

So is BMWCCA worth it? Here in Texas we have no shortage of track day groups, but I know BMWCCA offers a racing school that sounds interesting forr a newb like me.

I might be slightly biased since I'm pretty involved in the Lone Star chapter, but the race school should be a fun treat this year. Our club only puts on 2-3 events a year, but they're run by a great group so I would highly recommend it. Even if you just come up for the May DE and not the full race school.

[b4hand]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

I might be slightly biased since I'm pretty involved in the Lone Star chapter, but the race school should be a fun treat this year. Our club only puts on 2-3 events a year, but they're run by a great group so I would highly recommend it. Even if you just come up for the May DE and not the full race school.

I don't think I can technically attend the race school, since you must be solo certified. But I would like to attend one day. I am planning on attending that May DE as well.

[ThunderMoose]

Originally Posted by Ximian

Question for the club instructors -

Is there some number of events that's being required before moving a student to a solo or advanced group? Because that seems to be the case with me as I'm told I can't attend a lapping day due to my lack of experience and events. This group typically has one event per year. So do I have to wait a decade or so before being allowed on track alone? The feedback from my instructors didn't include anything negative as far as safety is concerned or negative in general.

All this experience is doing is pushing me to give up on the clubs and stick with the other groups that only do solos even if I don't like the way they do some things. I've done several solo events at the track already so it's not a lack of experience at the track.

How many track days do you have? How many different tracks?

My experience is that every club is different in what it needs.

I have been driving since 2010 and have hundreds of days. Have been doing NASA TT since 2014 which is open passing no point required. I have won a regional championship and a national championship and hold 6 track records in 5 states. I consider my self a competent advanced solo driver.

When I run with Chin at a new track I get bumped down to intermediate solo.

Most other groups will take my resume and let me run in an advanced group.

There are some groups I don't even try as I no longer have a right seat and can't have an in car instructor if they want to check me out. That's cool. People regularly lie about their experience and try to run in groups that they don't yet belong.

Another complication is inspection. I do all my maintenance so know car is in good shape. My car is trailered so it's a pain to bring it to a shop that'd I'd even trust for tech inspection. Therefore I prefer groups that will allow self tech or at least accept my NASA logbook. PCA usually discourages this but so far we've always found a way to work through it.

There are so many clubs and so many opportunities that I am usually able to find a suitable match.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Not an instructor but the group I typically run with measures it as total HPDE event days, not just their own events.

The minimum is >20 days to be in an open passing group, and they have two open groups- one for faster cars and one for slower cars.

Each open group has maximum (be faster than xyz) pacing guidance and people are subject to being dropped down to a point by run group for being dangerous/unaware or too much off-pace.

None of the events here allow open passing in any run group (not including club races, of course). If open-passing was the case, I could see a requirement for needed so many days especially after passing is tested and demonstrated properly.

That's not to say open passing doesn't happen because some people choose to ignore the rules and the corner workers are pretty lenient. I was once passed without a point-by by two cars under braking at the end of the fastest part of the track during a combined instructor/advanced/intermediate session with intermediate passing rules (point by passes only, fewer passing zones). In the session before that one, I got black flagged because my instructor had his elbow occasionally poking through the window.

[OG Shark]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

I don’t think that’s the case, there’s several people here in N TX running those classes, TT3 especially. I think the challenge is a lot of people from DFW can’t always make it down to Houston.

Hopefully that is the case - will get lonely out there by myself

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

I have been seeing TT3 dwindle a bit over the years but hoping for a resurgence. ST2/TT2 usually has a good turnout so you may look here long term .

I was looking at that - definitely looks to have a higher turnout. You're right - it might be the option to look at down the line. I think the E92 weight might be a big obstacle though - we are around 3050 without driver and at the point of diminishing returns on weight loss (well, besides the driver ). We are having issues getting on the dyno today - so I actually might be trying my hand at STU this weekend

Originally Posted by XCUSE_M3

I will be at MSRC in March but that will be TT3 no ST for me don't have a cage and what not. Hopefully we can get a good amount of TT3 guys in March.

Think we are going to head out there too - really enjoyed MSRC. Not sure if will run TT though, going to see how doing both goes this weekend. You took me out for a few laps a couple of Novembers ago - that was awesome & still very much appreciated. Was my 2nd or 3rd time on a track and that was incredibly helpful - not only for the driving part but also helping a noob to feel more comfortable in that environment.

Originally Posted by b4hand

So is BMWCCA worth it? Here in Texas we have no shortage of track day groups, but I know BMWCCA offers a racing school that sounds interesting forr a newb like me.

I'm in NASA's comp school this weekend - I'll let you know how that one goes and what it involves. SCCA has one too but NASA in our region does not issue a license just based on having a SCCA one (which is actually very good - I have been in a couple of classes that make you eligible for a full SCCA license and there were a few people there that absolutely terrified me). I do not know about the BMWCCA school - but I can say that any opportunity you have to be able to work on passing & getting comfortable running close to others (when you are at the point you are ready for it) is invaluable. It will not substitute for the real thing but is definitely good prep. Also any chance to work on car control like they usually do is great.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by ThunderMoose

How many track days do you have? How many different tracks?

My experience is that every club is different in what it needs.

I have been driving since 2010 and have hundreds of days. Have been doing NASA TT since 2014 which is open passing no point required. I have won a regional championship and a national championship and hold 6 track records in 5 states. I consider my self a competent advanced solo driver.

When I run with Chin at a new track I get bumped down to intermediate solo.

Most other groups will take my resume and let me run in an advanced group.

There are some groups I don't even try as I no longer have a right seat and can't have an in car instructor if they want to check me out. That's cool. People regularly lie about their experience and try to run in groups that they don't yet belong.

Another complication is inspection. I do all my maintenance so know car is in good shape. My car is trailered so it's a pain to bring it to a shop that'd I'd even trust for tech inspection. Therefore I prefer groups that will allow self tech or at least accept my NASA logbook. PCA usually discourages this but so far we've always found a way to work through it.

There are so many clubs and so many opportunities that I am usually able to find a suitable match.

If I was going to a new track, I have no problems at all having an instructor for the day to get their suggestions. I also like riding along with different instructors and learning from their driving. Most people can't talk coherently while driving quickly so I don't ask many questions on track. The observation and occasional data logger helps answer most of my questions.

I'm at 10 days at this specific track. I haven't had the chance yet to go to other tracks but likely will this year. I don't count autocross, karting, or any time on racing sims to pad those numbers as I have seen that happen. I've had solo time with other groups to practice and improve and I definitely need more time to practice. Nearly all of the events are 4 or maybe 5 sessions at 20 minutes each. In comparison, one open lapping day is worth several days of regular events which is why I'm eager to get solo approval. Once I improve my technique and am able to do drive they way I want consistently, then I'd like to move on to more professional driver coaching.

Locally, there is a "club" that allows everyone to solo on track, even complete beginners. Not a great idea but it is what it is. The intermediate group was pretty safe with good enough driver etiquette, minus the rare YouTube-bro holding you up for a lap while they get a good video. There is another club that allows everyone to solo on track and to even bring one passenger if you have prior HPDE experience. Sounds great but they have two events and usually in the middle of the week so timing doesn't work out. I assumed events with the first club would have a lot more accidents, but looking back it with more CCA events under my belt, the CCA events actually have more incidents. So those groups allowing solo driving for everyone are no more dangerous the the CCA events.

My frustration with instructors stems from the subjective and biased review you have to go through. If you're honest with them and explain what you need to work on, they'll critique it much harshly than they would if you didn't say anything. I understand that's not the case everywhere, but I have encountered very good drivers that are not very good instructors. I've only had one instructor that I would say is a good coach. During one of my first events at the track, an instructor complimented the smoothness of my brake pedal release. On my next event with a different instructor, I listed things like vision and braking smoothness as things I'd like to improve further. The end of the day feedback was that those were the areas I needed most improvement on. Nevermind the sloppy line or passing cars by moving over to the opposite side of the track. During a recent event, I saw a solo approval for someone that had only three events completed, two at that track. It was someone I provided tips they found helpful on throttle application through higher speed corners and some line suggestions that their instructor didn't provide. I don't think I'm a worse driver than that person and I don't think the person didn't deserve to be solo approved. But it's hard not to take things like that personally when it seems I'm subject to some arbitrary, more stringent standard.

If it's possible for me to switch to PCA events here per SYT_Shadow's info, I don't think I'll mention any specific things that I'm working on and see how that changes the instructor feedback on my performance.

[b4hand]

So there seems to be a good amount of us within this sub-forum, is there any interest in choosing an event and everyone trying to make it out to it? Would love to include sir dogbone and slicer as well as the other West Coast guys. I know there are a few of us on the east coast too.

If we plan it from now, seems like it would be easier to make it happen.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by b4hand

So there seems to be a good amount of us within this sub-forum, is there any interest in choosing an event and everyone trying to make it out to it? Would love to include sir dogbone and slicer as well as the other West Coast guys. I know there are a few of us on the east coast too.

If we plan it from now, seems like it would be easier to make it happen.

Great idea. Hard to implement

[roastbeef]

Pick a central location like COTA and we all get in on separate group buys for transport and fly in.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by b4hand

So there seems to be a good amount of us within this sub-forum, is there any interest in choosing an event and everyone trying to make it out to it? Would love to include sir dogbone and slicer as well as the other West Coast guys. I know there are a few of us on the east coast too.

If we plan it from now, seems like it would be easier to make it happen.

I'm at COTA Feb 1-2 with Chin, and Feb 15-16 for SuperLap Battle. Come out and say hi!

[b4hand]

Originally Posted by dogbone

I'm at COTA Feb 1-2 with Chin, and Feb 15-16 for SuperLap Battle. Come out and say hi!

I'll be out of town for the Chin day but I'll for sure be there for SuperLap