thoughts on ST XTA (3-ways)

[911r]

Came across a seemingly interesting set of dampers. From what I've seen, ST XTAs have always been a bargain at around $1,500. ST recently released a 3-way adjustable set of dampers (low-speed and high-speed compression along with rebound) ...

Does anyone have experience with these (3-ways) ... From what I know, the 2-ways are just KW V2 dampers, with a galvanized body, different spring #s, and KW Clubsport hardware (camber plates). I wonder where these dampers are derived from, as the only 3-way damper in KW's line up is the competition series, which retail for $6,000+. These seem like a bargain for $2,500 (closer to $2,000 when on sale), no?

https://www.stsuspensions.com/produc...ingloweringkit

[JsL]

Nice find and I'm intrigued.

The audience it's trying to target is confusing. It's 3 way adjustable for performance, but you can also customize the color of the springs AND add custom text to the spring.

[Kelse92]

They look like the 2-way KW Clubsport and not a 3-way. And their 2-way looks like a KW V3. I would assume the internal valving is inferior and on a shock dyno we would see the whole story. But maybe they are a good bang for the buck. Hard to say.
If you take the risk on them, get a dyno, and send it to me I can compare to my 2-way Clubsports

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

They look like the 2-way KW Clubsport and not a 3-way. And their 2-way looks like a KW V3. I would assume the internal valving is inferior and on a shock dyno we would see the whole story. But maybe they are a good bang for the buck. Hard to say.
If you take the risk on them, get a dyno, and send it to me I can compare to my 2-way Clubsports

It's basically a 3-way Clubsport. From talking with KW they are very similar internally, in a cheaper housing (and a few cheaper hardware pieces) to make them more affordable. I saw these a few weeks back and thought that's a screaming deal for a 3-way damper from a big name company like KW. Talk about bang for buck.

For comparison I think the KW Clubsport 3-way's are like ~$5000 by comparison. The standard XTA's are excellent for the money, so I wouldn't be surprised if these are as well.

[tsk94]

They also don't have piggy back reservoirs like the 3-way CS's. It's a 3-way non-remote setup. The added simplicity cuts down the price a lot as well.

[911r]

Originally Posted by tsk94

It's basically a 3-way Clubsport. From talking with KW they are very similar internally, in a cheaper housing (and a few cheaper hardware pieces) to make them more affordable. I saw these a few weeks back and thought that's a screaming deal for a 3-way damper from a big name company like KW. Talk about bang for buck.

For comparison I think the KW Clubsport 3-way's are like ~$5000 by comparison. The standard XTA's are excellent for the money, so I wouldn't be surprised if these are as well.

Wow, so it's practically a 3-way adjustable KW Clubsport 2-way, in a cheaper (galvanized) housing? Theoretically, it should perform better than the KW CS 2-way, except for ~$1,000 cheaper? It's not like we're talking about BC or some other Taiwanese coilover company--this is KW we're talking about.

According to the online rep I spoke to from ST, "No sir valving on the club sports is ging to be much more aggressive. Club sports are made for strictly track us compared to the XTA these are street coilovers." .. I wonder what upgrading to stiffer springs would look like on the STs -- I doubt I'd be able to run 672lb f, 900lb r springs like I do on my KW CS 2-ways. I also think the rep didn't fully understand what he was talking about, as he said the ST XTA plus-3s are only rebound and camber adjustable.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by 911r

Wow, so it's practically a 3-way adjustable KW Clubsport 2-way, in a cheaper (galvanized) housing? Theoretically, it should perform better than the KW CS 2-way, except for ~$1,000 cheaper? It's not like we're talking about BC or some other Taiwanese coilover company--this is KW we're talking about.

According to the online rep I spoke to from ST, "No sir valving on the club sports is ging to be much more aggressive. Club sports are made for strictly track us compared to the XTA these are street coilovers." .. I wonder what upgrading to stiffer springs would look like on the STs -- I doubt I'd be able to run 672lb f, 900lb r springs like I do on my KW CS 2-ways. I also think the rep didn't fully understand what he was talking about, as he said the ST XTA plus-3s are only rebound and camber adjustable.

I don't know how the valving compares between the two, it might be the Clubsports are valved for stiffer spring rates. I also don't know what spring rates come with the XTA's.

Ya, doesn't sound like he knew that much about them. But from my understanding is it's essentially a KW CS, in a non-stainless housing, with some slightly cheaper hardware and a 3rd knob. It might be that they are valved differently and the XTA's can't handle the same spring rates as the CS's can. But for the price it's an intriguing option.

[tsk94]

For example, the standard XTA's are a KW V3 damper, with the CS camber plate and linear springs + helpers like the CS (front), but softer rates.

I urge someone else to get clarification, but it was my understanding when talking to them about the 3-way ST's, that they are more similar to a KW CS dampers, then a V3 damper (like the standard XTA's) with 3 adjustments. I didn't specifically ask on spring rates or how the valving compares between them and the KW CS's.

[911r]

Originally Posted by tsk94

I don't know how the valving compares between the two, it might be the Clubsports are valved for stiffer spring rates. I also don't know what spring rates come with the XTA's.

Ya, doesn't sound like he knew that much about them. But from my understanding is it's essentially a KW CS, in a non-stainless housing, with some slightly cheaper hardware and a 3rd knob. It might be that they are valved differently and the XTA's can't handle the same spring rates as the CS's can. But for the price it's an intriguing option.

Interesting. Yeah, I intend on purchasing another E90 M3 with the premise of "how quickly I could get the car itself with a $10,000 modification/maintenance budget". I'll be looking at full SPL suspension arms, coilovers, solid subframe mounts, poly diff bushings, rod bearings, wheels/tires, and brakes. I've been debating just going with these (ST XTA plus 3s) and being the testdumby...or spending the extra $1,000 on a proven set of coilvoers like the 3DM Ohlin dedicated track kit and cutting back on spending elsewhere.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by 911r

Interesting. Yeah, I intend on purchasing another E90 M3 with the premise of "how quickly I could get the car itself with a $10,000 modification/maintenance budget". I'll be looking at full SPL suspension arms, coilovers, solid subframe mounts, poly diff bushings, rod bearings, wheels/tires, and brakes. I've been debating just going with these (ST XTA plus 3s) and being the testdumby...or spending the extra $1,000 on a proven set of coilvoers like the 3DM Ohlin dedicated track kit and cutting back on spending elsewhere.

The Ohlins will be a better performing damper, no question. But they are more expensive. I think it depends on your application and how much track time you're going to use them for.

I would want more information like what spring rates they come standard with and what the factory valving is capable of handling if you wanted to increase spring rate. A 3-way in theory is great, but unless you know what you're doing you can really give yourself a headache by messing the setup up on a 3-way.

[911r]

Originally Posted by tsk94

The Ohlins will be a better performing damper, no question. But they are more expensive. I think it depends on your application and how much track time you're going to use them for.

I would want more information like what spring rates they come standard with and what the factory valving is capable of handling if you wanted to increase spring rate. A 3-way in theory is great, but unless you know what you're doing you can really give yourself a headache by messing the setup up on a 3-way.

Yeah, I think I'm best off with the Ohlins...or whatever else I can find in the $3000-$4000 realm.

[MaAl]

Originally Posted by 911r

Yeah, I think I'm best off with the Ohlins...or whatever else I can find in the $3000-$4000 realm.

At nearly half the price this is a really compelling option though. I want to try them myself now...

I had the XTA on my e36 and besides inner clearance issues which are well documented by now, they were amazing value

[Kelse92]

Originally Posted by 911r

Wow, so it's practically a 3-way adjustable KW Clubsport 2-way, in a cheaper (galvanized) housing? Theoretically, it should perform better than the KW CS 2-way, except for ~$1,000 cheaper? It's not like we're talking about BC or some other Taiwanese coilover company--this is KW we're talking about.

According to the online rep I spoke to from ST, "No sir valving on the club sports is ging to be much more aggressive. Club sports are made for strictly track us compared to the XTA these are street coilovers." .. I wonder what upgrading to stiffer springs would look like on the STs -- I doubt I'd be able to run 672lb f, 900lb r springs like I do on my KW CS 2-ways. I also think the rep didn't fully understand what he was talking about, as he said the ST XTA plus-3s are only rebound and camber adjustable.

I would again be really interested in a shock dyno if you get these and get that done
Otherwise I would agree that the Ohlins R&T (they have a new one that is slightly above those too and 1-way adjustable) may be the best bang for the buck here and if you ever want them upgraded I think that the valving on those and spring rates can be easily updated down the road.

[911r]

Originally Posted by Kelse92

I would again be really interested in a shock dyno if you get these and get that done
Otherwise I would agree that the Ohlins R&T (they have a new one that is slightly above those too and 1-way adjustable) may be the best bang for the buck here and if you ever want them upgraded I think that the valving on those and spring rates can be easily updated down the road.

Totally, talking to 3DM now. Still considering getting a set of these and having them dyno'd. Really curious to see what the story is with them.

[acarr6]

Good find, I think I'm going to buy a set when they have a sale.

[ANILE8]

There is a good reason why they are this price. Putting cheap $2K dampers on what was once a $70+K car seems logical to you? That is less than $500 per corner! Suspension affects everything your car does, and if you feel comfortable with that

Like everything, you get exactly what you pay for. The suspension is no different. Believe me, you get back every dollar you pay for the good stuff. If you ask those that have actually used quality dampers, I will bet there will be very few who would say they were a waste of money.

Even the better products I would consider extremely cheap for what they deliver. Whether it is JRZ RS PRO3, MCS 3W, AST 5300 or Nitron NTR R3, if you plan on spending less than $6-$7K by the time you get camber plates, end links and a few other things then you can't afford to do the job justice.

A good 3-Way set-up never has been and never will be cheap.

[acarr6]

Originally Posted by ANILE8

There is a good reason why they are this price. Putting cheap $2K dampers on what was once a $70+K car seems logical to you? That is less than $500 per corner! Suspension affects everything your car does, and if you feel comfortable with that

Like everything, you get exactly what you pay for. The suspension is no different. Believe me, you get back every dollar you pay for the good stuff. If you ask those that have actually used quality dampers, I will bet there will be very few who would say they were a waste of money.

Even the better products I would consider extremely cheap for what they deliver. Whether it is JRZ RS PRO3, MCS 3W, AST 5300 or Nitron NTR R3, if you plan on spending less than $6-$7K by the time you get camber plates, end links and a few other things then you can't afford to do the job justice.

A good 3-Way set-up never has been and never will be cheap.

On the contrary, I've discussed ST XTA with a friend who has moton 3 ways on his M235iR, and said ST XTA are amazing coilovers for street use. Now, there are drawbacks... if your car sees winter I wouldn't use them, as they'd probably corrode.

Tons of people have expensive coilovers which aren't dialed in at all.. rendering them pretty useless.

[911r]

Originally Posted by ANILE8

There is a good reason why they are this price. Putting cheap $2K dampers on what was once a $70+K car seems logical to you? That is less than $500 per corner! Suspension affects everything your car does, and if you feel comfortable with that

Like everything, you get exactly what you pay for. The suspension is no different. Believe me, you get back every dollar you pay for the good stuff. If you ask those that have actually used quality dampers, I will bet there will be very few who would say they were a waste of money.

Even the better products I would consider extremely cheap for what they deliver. Whether it is JRZ RS PRO3, MCS 3W, AST 5300 or Nitron NTR R3, if you plan on spending less than $6-$7K by the time you get camber plates, end links and a few other things then you can't afford to do the job justice.

A good 3-Way set-up never has been and never will be cheap.

I don't really see your argument? Just because these are 'cheap', they are automatically bad? These are KW dampers, after all, a brand even BMW has used on their GT4 race cars. It's not like we're talking about BC coilovers or another 'bargain' brand. From talking to the motorsport & damper dept. manager at KW (when spec'ing a set of KW Competitions), these dampers aren't bad at all. I would think he would know what he's talking about--and wouldn't allow his team to produce a "shitty" product.

I'm not saying these are the best on the market, but they make an excellent value proposition--perhaps allowing someone to spend more money on kinematics, sway bars, solid/spherical bushings, etc. Dampers aren't the only component that make up a suspension, I have seen "lowly $2,000/$3,000 dampers" do AMAZING things on track when working in conjunction with a well-adjusted car. Just food for thought. I wouldn't automatically discount this set of dampers because of their cost. Maybe you have personal experiences with the KW/ST brand that I havent.

[JBird..]

I will be giving these guys a try this year (most likely in April). I don't have any experience with track setups, but previously ran KW V3's which will be my basis for comparison. My car is a weekend toy / canyon car, and personally, I'm expecting a great return from the XTA's for explicitly street and spirited weekend driving. I'll be sure to post a review as soon as I get them installed later this year. Y'all can hold me to that

[911r]

Originally Posted by jzizzl

I will be giving these guys a try this year (most likely in April). I don't have any experience with track setups, but previously ran KW V3's which will be my basis for comparison. My car is a weekend toy / canyon car, and personally, I'm expecting a great return from the XTA's for explicitly street and spirited weekend driving. I'll be sure to post a review as soon as I get them installed later this year. Y'all can hold me to that

Can't wait to hear what you have to say!

[JsL]

Fyi... Turner and ECS have them for 10% off currently.

[nickauger]

Anyone try those coilover ?