My E90 M3 Dedicated Track build (with pix!)

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

Could you (do you) use the same nitrogen in your dampeners as you could in your tires?

ummm the nitrogen rig as it is setup right now is not super convenient for quick tire filling.

The schrader coupler pictured below is a necessary and excellent part of my nitrogen rig for suspension filling. However, it does not allow you to fill a tire quickly. It requires you to it turn the lower nut to screw it onto the Schrader valve, then you need to use a wrench to make an air-tight seal, then you need to rotate that plunger on the top to actually depress the spring loaded valve in the Schrader valve. Then you need to turn the handle on the regulator to allow nitrogen to flow. Then you need to reverse all those steps to disconnect.....it's a lot of steps to disconnect, and then you need to move on to 3 more tires.......not very convenient. Especially, not compared to a ball chuck that you can just press onto the Schrader valve. That's instant.



Now, if you wanted the rig to do double duty, I guess you could put a quick disconnect on there, so when you need the rig for the suspension, you put the Schrader coupler on there, and when you want to fill tires to swap to the ball chuck. But I have found those air quick disconnects to leak a bit at high pressures and that would not be ideal when working at 300 psi on the suspension.......

I see you've been talking about nitrogen for tires on some other threads. For me, it's just not practical. To get all the oxygen and moisture out of a tire, and just have nitrogen in there is a pretty big commitment. It's not just a simple matter of installing the tire and then putting nitrogen in. Remember the tire has "regular" ambient air sitting in it once it's installed. You have to have a special bleeder that can allow you to fill a tire with nitrogen while simultaneously pulling the "old" air out. And a tire has a MUCH larger volume area than a tiny suspension canister. And sometimes, they have to put a LOT of air in a tire to get the beads to seat. So you're going to go through a LOT of nitrogen.

And then the biggest issue for me is that I don't leave tires on for very long. For instance, just yesterday, I flipped the rubber on a set of rims after just 5 heat cycles. I want the tires to last as long as possible, and since Auto Club is SO PUNISHING to the outside edge of tires on the passenger side, I had the tires flipped. All that nitrogen setup in the tires would be gone after 5 runs......

Sure, from a theory standpoint, nitrogen in the tires could be great----you'd get better consistent pressures....that's why they put it in suspension canisters. But in tires, it's really only practical for a racer who has very solid support because someone else is dealing with all that crap. For a hobby guy like me who shows up to the track and does my own support, it's just way too much commitment.

Your question is timely for me. I'm actually in the middle of write up on my nitrogen rig and my approach to nitrogen in suspension canisters. I am super slammed with moving right now though, so I don't know when it will be done. I promise though, once it's done, it will solve ALL known cases of insomnia!

[roastbeef]

understandable. i didn't know how big your nitrogen rig was... you could always upgrade to a 50 gallon tank in your trailer and fill that thing once a year...
you mentioned you saw my posts about dry air or nitrogen in other threads. in that webinar i listened to, the race engineer put a lot of emphasis on tire pressure and using nitrogen (his norm, and someone else deals with it like you said), but if you can't use nitrogen, use and "air drier."
how he described it was easy enough- if you have one valve, let all the air out, fill the tire up with dry air, let it out again, and then fill it up again. that would at least get some of the residual moisture out of the tire. since you can't sanely get all the humidity out.
just a fun thing for me to screw around with for $30 while i'm sitting out a few track days.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

so..... are you doing to be selling some arc8's for cheap or what?

For anyone interested, I have listed 2 sets of my Apex ARC-8 10.5" Hyper Silver rims for sale. (I had 3 sets, but already sold one of them.)

Sales thread:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1504720

[roastbeef]

Damn... I can't make a move right now.

[Richbot]

I used my nitrogen bottle for tires a lot at home until I emptied it out (it's one of the shorty bottles you can buy instead of leasing, on a roller cart, ebcause I'm super safe and definitely never leave the regulator on when it's not secured to the wall...). So convenient and way quieter than firing up the compressor.

I used a (slightly more expensive) 300psig rated shrader air chuck with my 6' of 300psig-rated hose somebody else made because I can't be trusted to crimp hose correctly, and then used the penske tool separately to check pressure on the canisters. You'd spill some N2 molecules all over yourself every time, but the whole point was to just fill in the right ballpark and then use the tool to fine-toon.

Soooo I can use my rig to regulate to 100psi or so, fill tires, no noise and I save $20 every time because that's how much the tire shop charges for extra super top secret fancy racecar nitrogen fills

Really need to get that refilled. It lasted a few years like that so it's not like the little guy was seeing that much use at my house. Mostly un-flattening spec racer tires

Compared to compressed air, N2 is the cheapest non-combustible alternative. It's not like it has many special qualities beyond the fact that it's a purified relatively inert gas. It'd be kinda cool to try propane in the canisters (for somebody else to try propane, actually, far away from me)

[SYT_Shadow]

For N2 I have a little suitcase kit, pretty awesome.

https://powertank.com/products/sfID1/29/productID/438

Whenever I'm running low I (steal) borrow from a friend that runs around with a giant tank in his trailer

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I used my nitrogen bottle for tires a lot at home until I emptied it out (it's one of the shorty bottles you can buy instead of leasing, on a roller cart, ebcause I'm super safe and definitely never leave the regulator on when it's not secured to the wall...). So convenient and way quieter than firing up the compressor.

I used a (slightly more expensive) 300psig rated shrader air chuck with my 6' of 300psig-rated hose somebody else made because I can't be trusted to crimp hose correctly, and then used the penske tool separately to check pressure on the canisters. You'd spill some N2 molecules all over yourself every time, but the whole point was to just fill in the right ballpark and then use the tool to fine-toon.

Soooo I can use my rig to regulate to 100psi or so, fill tires, no noise and I save $20 every time because that's how much the tire shop charges for extra super top secret fancy racecar nitrogen fills

Really need to get that refilled. It lasted a few years like that so it's not like the little guy was seeing that much use at my house. Mostly un-flattening spec racer tires

Compared to compressed air, N2 is the cheapest non-combustible alternative. It's not like it has many special qualities beyond the fact that it's a purified relatively inert gas. It'd be kinda cool to try propane in the canisters (for somebody else to try propane, actually, far away from me)

Interesting. So, did you get a nitrogen fill on the tires originally on the install? Or did you simply supplement the “regular” air in there with the nitrogen?

[Richbot]

I paid extra for Hydrogen

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I paid extra for Hydrogen

haha! Total cheater car.

[admranger]

Originally Posted by Richbot

I paid extra for Hydrogen

Hydrogen is a blast to use.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

For N2 I have a little suitcase kit, pretty awesome.

https://powertank.com/products/sfID1/29/productID/438

Whenever I'm running low I (steal) borrow from a friend that runs around with a giant tank in his trailer

Powertank stuff looks really nice. I've never see it in person, but the setups that they sell look cool.

[dogbone]

Let's file this one under: RANT (aka fun with towing and cops)

Due to our impending move in a couple days, I have been dealing with cancelling services, changing addresses, etc.----all the normal move stuff. Fine.

So, today I'm on the the phone with the auto insurance. This particular topic is more complicated than usual because I'm leaving my pickup truck and trailer in CA, but the other cars are going to CO. So, we're sorting all the details. Fine.

As she is pricing everything, the annual insurance for just the 2013 Tundra in CA is coming up almost $600 more than the COMBINED price of the 2015 X5 and 2009 M3 (street coupe) in CO. I ask why the Tundra is so expensive. First she says, "Because you have a point on your license with the Tundra for speeding." I'm like WHATTTT? I have a point on my license? I've never gotten a speeding ticket in CA in 20 years!! When did that happen??? She said the point showed up in April 2018......I'm like WHATTTT??? What for?

So, I forced her to dig in further. It turns out the point wasn't for a speeding ticket. In May 2017, a cop pulled me over while I was towing my trailer from storage to my house. I was on a surface street in LA. The cop was sitting in a parking lot while I was sitting at a light. A minute later, he lights me up and pulls me over on Venice Blvd. He walks up to my hitch setup and stares at it for like 2 minutes. I have an Equalizer brand weight distribution and sway control hitch. The setup is more involved than just a regular ball hitch. After a couple minutes, he starts taking pictures of my hitch.

He comes up to me and says, "Are you the owner of this truck?" Yes. "Who owns the trailer?" Me. "What are you carrying?" An automobile. "Is it new or old?" It's a 2009. Would you like to see it? "No. I'm citing you because your emergency break away cable is not attached correctly." I'm sorry. How should it be attached?

He explained how it should be. While he was in his cruiser writing a ticket, I pulled out a carabiner that I had in the glove box and fixed it right there on the spot. When he came back with the ticket, I asked, "is that how it should look?" He sheepishly said, "yes, that's how it should be." And gave me the ticket and took off.

He cited me with the nastiest version of the ticket he could. It was listed as a not-correctable offence, with points and I'm being told no traffic school option....I'm sorry, but how is it not correctable when I fixed it right in front of him????

I don't have any experience with tickets. So, I hired a generic traffic ticket lawyer for the trial in Nov 2017. They told me to just let them handle it on my behalf. They accomplished nothing. The cop showed up at the trial and the judge simply sided with him, advised our side to plead no contest, and put the court fees on my head. So I paid everything. And I thought this dumb adventure was over in Nov 2017. No one advised me that points would still be coming my way. Today, I was told by the ticket lawyer that traffic school was never an option to avoid points, although I'm not so sure about that now....in an email that shows my case being imported, the lawyer's own notes say "t/s eligible"......does that mean traffic school? Now I'm thinking the traffic ticket lawyer didn't do their job correctly.

Ultimately, I found out about this points buillshit simply because I was changing addresses.......And now that point on my license is going to sit there for three years, costing me an extra $550/year in insurance on the Tundra......What a lovely F-U from CA on my way out the door.

But seriously-----why do cops gotta be so nasty?? He couldn't have just advised me on safety? My record is clean. And btw, there's NO EFFING WAY he could have seen how my breakaway cable was attached from where he sat in that parking lot. He was 40 feet away on the right side of my rig, and that very thin cable was attached on the left side. With all the metal of the Equalizer hitch, there's ABSOLUTELY NO WAY he could have seen how it was hooked up. He stopped me assuming he would find something that he didn't like. And did he really need to power slam me with such a nasty ticket? I was polite and succinct and gave him no attitude.

So annoying. As if I didn't have enough dumb crap to deal with on a 1000 mile move already; I needed a ticket from over a year ago to come and bite me in the ass because a cop decided to be nasty.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[kyippee]

Yikes, sorry to hear that. Sounds like something was misaligned with the lawyer or they completely messed up. I read an article that cops are being told to be tough on towing tickets, so that explains the increased scrutiny.

On the insurance front, the encounter was a moving violation since you were pulled over while driving. So the person on the phone wasn't correct calling a speeding ticket, but it was indeed a "surchargeable offense" which means it increases your policy premium.

From a go-forward perspective, consider using Metromile for insuring your tundra. It is truly priced per-mile (base rate + per mile cost) so it will likely cost less than traditional auto insurance if you don't drive the Tundra much. My guess it is just the occasional tow, so run it through their quote system! The per-mile element will help lower the cost. The rough measure is that if you drive less than 8,000 miles per year on the vehicle, you're likely to save with Metromile. Normal auto insurance will price lower if you report a lower estimated mileage, but the sensitivity to mileage is much weaker. Metromile uses an internet-connected OBD2 dongle to report mileage to Metromile and provide location data etc to the consumer. This may be cool and helpful so you can keep an eye on your truck's location.

- past insurance industry employee (not front-line or agent, was corporate product/analytics)

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

Yikes, sorry to hear that. Sounds like something was misaligned with the lawyer or they completely messed up. I read an article that cops are being told to be tough on towing tickets, so that explains the increased scrutiny.

On the insurance front, the encounter was a moving violation since you were pulled over while driving. So the person on the phone wasn't correct calling a speeding ticket, but it was indeed a "surchargeable offense" which means it increases your policy premium.

From a go-forward perspective, consider using Metromile for insuring your tundra. It is truly priced per-mile (base rate + per mile cost) so it will likely cost less than traditional auto insurance if you don't drive the Tundra much. My guess it is just the occasional tow, so run it through their quote system! The per-mile element will help lower the cost. The rough measure is that if you drive less than 8,000 miles per year on the vehicle, you're likely to save with Metromile. Normal auto insurance will price lower if you report a lower estimated mileage, but the sensitivity to mileage is much weaker. Metromile uses an internet-connected OBD2 dongle to report mileage to Metromile and provide location data etc to the consumer. This may be cool and helpful so you can keep an eye on your truck's location.

- past insurance industry employee (not front-line or agent, was corporate product/analytics)

Thanks for the advice. I'll check it out.

Interesting about the tough on towing tickets. I do try to tow responsibly. I have air springs on the Tundra to keep it from sagging. I have a weight distribution hitch that evens out the load. The sway control feature of the Equalizer hitch is awesome and keeps the rig steady---no wagging trailer. I have an air compressor on my truck, so it's easy to keep the trailer tires at the proper pressures and change pressure in the air springs. I have red and white reflector tape on three sides even though someone told me the law says it's not necessary for my length trailer. I installed a rear-facing camera on the back of the trailer so I can see what's going on behind me. I maintain the trailer regularly at a trailer shop to keep the brakes in good shape and the axles greased. I make sure not to let the tires age and risk bubbling. I carry a spare tire and know how to jack up the the fully loaded trailer with my floor jacks if I get a flat. ah well. Live and learn.

[SYT_Shadow]

Sorry to hear about your traffic woes. I've lived in a few countries and the US is the only country where you stand a chance to get away with traffic violations.

If you get pulled over in Europe you are 100% getting a ticket. You could be Jesus Christ and you'd still get a ticket.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

If you get pulled over in Europe you are 100% getting a ticket. You could be Jesus Christ and you'd still get a ticket.

haha!

[derbo]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

Sorry to hear about your traffic woes. I've lived in a few countries and the US is the only country where you stand a chance to get away with traffic violations.

If you get pulled over in Europe you are 100% getting a ticket. You could be Jesus Christ and you'd still get a ticket.

Jesus wouldn't get caught. Lol

[aswy6]

You guys have not lived in Russia.

Plus if you get pulled over there, you just stick 100$ out the window and keep driving lol

[admranger]

When I raced I towed a 26' enclosed trailer behind a crew cab diesel dually. Only attitude I ever got was at a weigh station in Arizona (was tired, zoned out and followed a big rig in -- doh!). He was all "you're a commercial vehicle b/c you have race car sponsors". I'm like, uhhh, no, I'm a hobbiest and I just like those companies. Want to see my income taxes? They're on the computer my wife has in the truck. He mumbled something about having bigger fish to fry and stumbled his way out of my trailer. Did get a weight out of it though, 18,800lbs.

Other side of that was a CHP who stopped to make sure I was ok as I was changing a tire on the trailer (I eventually carried two spares...hint, hint). I was on the 58 between Barstow and Bakersfield on a wide gravel pull out. It was summer and it was well over 100 deg F. I said I was fine and offered him a bottle of ice water. He declined and drove off. Nice guy.

Interesting advice on the insurance, kpewpew. Will the dongle tell the insurance company how fast I drive? That's not gonna work for me even though one car gets less than 3k miles per year and the other less than 5k now that I live in the DC area.

[kyippee]

Originally Posted by admranger

Interesting advice on the insurance, kpewpew. Will the dongle tell the insurance company how fast I drive? That's not gonna work for me even though one car gets less than 3k miles per year and the other less than 5k now that I live in the DC area.

The dongle will report data such as speed, but their insurance policy does not price using speed. If the fear is they cancel your policy due to track driving speeds, I'm not sure whether that would be an issue!

Pricing is really just by mileage, driving history (tickets/claims), and other typical factors. I also have two friends that are insured with Metromile, use the dongle, have left it plugged in during track days, and haven't gotten cancelled.

[derbo]

Originally Posted by kpewpew

The dongle will report data such as speed, but their insurance policy does not price using speed. If the fear is they cancel your policy due to track driving speeds, I'm not sure whether that would be an issue!

Pricing is really just by mileage, driving history (tickets/claims), and other typical factors. I also have two friends that are insured with Metromile, use the dongle, have left it plugged in during track days, and haven't gotten cancelled.

I looked it up based on 5000miles/yr and it would only save me $100/yr with less coverage haha. Not worth the trouble for me.

[kyippee]

Aw that's too bad. Auto insurance is definitely a YMMV product to shop. Sorry to go off-topic in this branch, dogbone :P