M3 (E90) or Audi RS4 ????

[footie]

Originally Posted by Jonmartin

Ok so now we're talking about "tweaking" I'm glad you brought that up. lol. Now its over..

M3>R8>335>RS4>S4>A4>328i

A modded M3 will murder anything in Audi's stable and a tuned 335 will be close behind.

There is a world of difference between spending a couple of grand on an exhaust and chip which would bump up an S4 to more than an M3 or RS4 in terms of performance and spending countless thousands on tuning an M3. You clearly missed the point of my statement (kind of getting use to that lately ), I'm not saying that the S4 will ever be a substitute for an M3 or even an RS4 in much the same way as the 335i will never replace the need for an M3 but if money is tight then an S4 with a little money spent could offer a decent alternative to either of them, much better alternative than a 335i ever could.

Originally Posted by Jonmartin

Therefore it will ruin the audi guys day.. I speak from experience. AWD - RWD it doesn't matter as long as both cars are in proper working condition and you're not driving in 1ft of snow then BMW will always wax Audi.

I agree that on pure entertainment rwd if developed correctly will always be better but from a practical point of view where speed in all conditions is important then awd always wins hands down. Anyone who thinks that it's as easy to hustle a rwd car as it is an awd is plain barking, one is drama free where as the other can be white knuckle and sweaty palms at times. Another thing, as the conditions worsen it's the awd car that to more entertaining and the rwd which can in untrained hands scary the shit clean out of you.

[kmac1980]

Originally Posted by 330CIZHP

Actually, the 4.2L V8 R8 runs very similar times to the M3. Only slightly faster bone stock. A modded M3 will beat a stock R8 (again, V8).

on what a drag strip? clearly that's not the point of a highly balanced mid-engined car...

[330CIZHP]

Originally Posted by kmac1980

on what a drag strip? clearly that's not the point of a highly balanced mid-engined car...

Check AutoZeitung's comparison for R8, M3 and Corvette C6. You will see slalom speeds, skidpad, laptimes etc. on it as well.

[Garissimo]

Originally Posted by footie

I'm not saying that the S4 will ever be a substitute for an M3 or even an RS4 in much the same way as the 335i will never replace the need for an M3 but if money is tight then an S4 with a little money spent could offer a decent alternative to either of them, much better alternative than a 335i ever could.

One of the things that immediately occurred to me after my S4 test drive was "This chassis could easily handle another 50hp". I think that's what you're saying too. Extra power in the 335i brings the shortcomings of the suspension quickly to light. It's not like it falls flat on its face, but the steering and chassis reactions always feel a step behind the engine.

Also, the US magazine "Car and Driver" has a heads up comparo with the S4 and the 335xi in their November issue. S4 is barely faster (1mph in the 1/4 mile) but the editors raved about its chassis and, overall, chose it over the BMW. Article is not online yet.

[footie]

Originally Posted by Garissimo

One of the things that immediately occurred to me after my S4 test drive was "This chassis could easily handle another 50hp". I think that's what you're saying too. Extra power in the 335i brings the shortcomings of the suspension quickly to light. It's not like it falls flat on its face, but the steering and chassis reactions always feel a step behind the engine.

That is so true, it most evident with the RS6, even the MTM version with over 700hp feels totally civilized and give the impression that this amount of power feel completely normal.

Originally Posted by Garissimo

Also, the US magazine "Car and Driver" has a heads up comparo with the S4 and the 335xi in their November issue. S4 is barely faster (1mph in the 1/4 mile) but the editors raved about its chassis and, overall, chose it over the BMW. Article is not online yet.

I'm not surprised it's only 1mph fast or post near enough identical times doing so, roll-out masks the traction advantage of the S4. Interesting that the American testers are finding an awd chassis to be better than a rwd one, to them awd is mean for trucks and SUVs not sports saloons.

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by kmac1980

what are you talking a supercharged M3?? in that case a "modded civic" will beat any audi too (with 50K in mods)

with bolt ons the m3 won't beat an R8 and wont even come close to the R8 5.2, or RS6

No I'm talking a bolt on M3 not a supercharged. If I was talking supercharged on both then they would both be fast but the M3 would be faster without question.

[Garissimo]

Scans are lo-res, but here is the aforementioned C&D comparo between the new S4 and BMW 335i. Also, the comparison was against a standard 335i sedan, not the "X" version.

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showpo...5&postcount=50

[mixja]

Originally Posted by footie

I'm not surprised it's only 1mph fast or post near enough identical times doing so, roll-out masks the traction advantage of the S4. Interesting that the American testers are finding an awd chassis to be better than a rwd one, to them awd is mean for trucks and SUVs not sports saloons.

335xi is AWD as well...

[footie]

Originally Posted by mixja

335xi is AWD as well...

It was against the rwd 335i and not the x-drive version.

[Jonmartin]

The part I like was how the XI was just as fast as the S4 with less rated power... I can't belive that S4 weighs 4,000lbs what is a refrigerator standard? Thats in a whole other weight class. Its heavier then a 5 series wtf.

[footie]

Originally Posted by Jonmartin

The part I like was how the XI was just as fast as the S4 with less rated power... I can't belive that S4 weighs 4,000lbs what is a refrigerator standard? Thats in a whole other weight class. Its heavier then a 5 series wtf.

It was a standard rwd 335i it was compared to not an awd version. Also 1650kg+75Kg = 3795lbs, I don't get the 4000lbs quote by C&D???

According to BMW UK the 335i maunal weighs 1610kg which includes the 75kg so that in old money works out at 3542lbs. Clearly the extras added to the Audi were vast compared to the BMW, also 50% more in value, but even so an increase of 200lbs sounds excessive.

BTW another review from the States quotes their S4 at 3874lbs, that's much closer to Audi's own figures and a hefty amount of extras would produce a figure much closer to that one.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/28/r...-s-a-reason-f/

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by footie

It was a standard rwd 335i it was compared to not an awd version. Also 1650kg+75Kg = 3795lbs, I don't get the 4000lbs quote by C&D???

According to BMW UK the 335i maunal weighs 1610kg which includes the 75kg so that in old money works out at 3542lbs. Clearly the extras added to the Audi were vast compared to the BMW, also 50% more in value, but even so an increase of 200lbs sounds excessive.

BTW another review from the States quotes their S4 at 3874lbs, that's much closer to Audi's own figures and a hefty amount of extras would produce a figure much closer to that one.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/28/r...-s-a-reason-f/

I know the article is about the RWD verson but in article somewhere it gives the results of the AWD version also and why it wasn't used in the test. The car looks nice but its still no 335 or M3.

[graider]

one thing i noticed 5 times in the past 1 month with these new audi, the led day time running light tends to burn off real quick. I noticed most of them would have led on only one side, wth. it looks weird.

btw, these led are seriously getting old/played out.

[Brosef]

Originally Posted by graider

one thing i noticed 5 times in the past 1 month with these new audi, the led day time running light tends to burn off real quick. I noticed most of them would have led on only one side, wth. it looks weird.

btw, these led are seriously getting old/played out.

100% agreed. I'm pretty sick of seeing them on the road. It could have been cool if they only put them on the R8 to keep them special. Porsche adding them to the 997.2 doesn't help either.

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by graider

one thing i noticed 5 times in the past 1 month with these new audi, the led day time running light tends to burn off real quick. I noticed most of them would have led on only one side, wth. it looks weird.

btw, these led are seriously getting old/played out.

It doesnt burn out it turns off if the turn signal is in use. I like the LED's for DRL imo best shit since sliced bread.

[graider]

Originally Posted by Jonmartin

It doesnt burn out it turns off if the turn signal is in use. I like the LED's for DRL imo best shit since sliced bread.

yeah i'm aware that it turns off when signalling. i'm reffering to normal cruise on the freeway with led on only one side.

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by graider

yeah i'm aware that it turns off when signalling. i'm reffering to normal cruise on the freeway with led on only one side.

Well you know what they say Audi's are just upgraded VW's which are upgraded turd burglars.




lol j/k




But seriously how many BMW's have you seen with tailights out on one side or even Angel eyes.

[footie]

Originally Posted by graider

one thing i noticed 5 times in the past 1 month with these new audi, the led day time running light tends to burn off real quick. I noticed most of them would have led on only one side, wth. it looks weird.

btw, these led are seriously getting old/played out.

We have had them over here even longer than you lot in the States and I can honestly say I have never seen a single car with them that has had one one side working. I can only assume that either heat is a problem or the amount of potholes in the States far exceed the amount we have here.

P.S.
I have had 1 Audi with them for 11 months and never had a single problem.

[foosh]

Footie,

We have a saying in America, "never wrestle with a pig in the mud because you'll just get dirty, and he'll enjoy it."

[SCCAForums.com]

The comments about AWD be RWD are moot... because the PROBLEM w/ Audi... is they start with the engine IN FRONT of the Front Tires! That platform will NEVER handle like the 3 series... ESPECIALLY the M3!

I think it's LAUGHABLE that the almighty S4 has been brought down to having to compete with the 335i! What a Joke!

The C&D Rag... said they liked the S4 better, and they 'felt' it handled better... but the 335i, out skidpadded, out slalom'd & out broke the car???

Audi is DEAD IMO... they still can't get their cars less than 4000 lbs... and they still can't get the motor behind the front axle line. (Very critical for ANYONE that is a 'corner-carver'.

Peace,
Dave

[footie]

Originally Posted by SCCAForums.com

The C&D Rag... said they liked the S4 better, and they 'felt' it handled better... but the 335i, out skidpadded, out slalom'd & out broke the car???

Numbers mean very little when it comes to defining what is the better handling car. Maybe you should read the full 'M3 vs Cayman S' thread and concentrate of the discussion about 997 and Cayman, it might enlighten you.

If it's solely down to the numbers for you then by all means keep posting what you are posting.

[SCCAForums.com]

Dude... That's your defense? Honestly... again... an S4 has now become the standard from Audi to be compared to BMW's 335i... ??

The S4 is on 255's all the way around... The 335 has smaller fronts...

The Cayman S is a great vehicle... and that's not what we're comparing. The S4 has nothing on an M3... and honestly... has nothing on a 335i... in the real world.

BMW purposely doesn't allow LSD, and other 'M' features on their 335's... (or other 'non' M Brands)... and again... Audi's S in the real world has nothing for it.

I've enjoyed Audi's S line over the years... but continued to hope they would figure out their engines hanging out past the front bumpers... they still haven't.

Do some math on Front & Rear Weight bias too... I'm sure those don't mean anything either.