E9x M3 Houston GB Dyno Charts

[BPMSport]

Hi everyone.

Please find below the dynocharts from the trip that Jeremy and I took to Houston TX. We had great success in our tuning endeavours there and I'd like to thank everyone who made the trip possible. I wanted to share some of the dynos with the forum to show the power increases achieved with our tune. Please email or call me if you have any questions - I am happy to help out.

Thanks,
Mike Benvo

PS: I have also included Powertrips dyno (AA vs Stock vs Our Dyno Tune) for reference. Also,on QTR M3's dyno chart, the baseline is AA software. I am not sure which revision he had, I think it was 1.5. Will have to clairfy with him. Dyno Charts in Order are: Powertrip, Nawaaz, QTRM3 (AA Baseline), Tinpot, TLud, and TMX32B.

I can be reached at 323-375-4269.

[Omar@ActiveAutowerke]

It was NOT 1.5

wow... Standup stuff Mike.

[SUB-ZERO]

How come the black line (AA Tune) shows lower numbers than the stock line (green)? Is that right?

[Omar@ActiveAutowerke]

Good marketing, with poor taste. My $.02.

[powertrip]

The AA tune wasn't holding the throttle open all the way at redline. I've got several dynos showing this same behavior with the AA tune. Powerchip's tune is head and shoulders above AA in my opinion.

Originally Posted by SUB-ZERO

How come the black line (AA Tune) shows lower numbers than the stock line (green)? Is that right?

[powertrip]

Never heard anything back from you when I complained about my tune . Very poor taste...just my $.02 .

Originally Posted by Omar@ActiveAutowerke

Good marketing, with poor taste. My $.02.

[Omar@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by powertrip

Never heard anything back from you when I complained about my tune . Very poor taste...just my $.02 .

Dont' want to get into this and I am not here to bad mouth you or any vendor. I will continue to let our software speak for itself.

Best,

[Omar@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by powertrip

The AA tune wasn't holding the throttle open all the way at redline. I've got several dynos showing this same behavior with the AA tune. Powerchip's tune is head and shoulders above AA in my opinion.

This is correct. You would NOT want to do this because you will void the warranty.

FYI, the redline is not controlled by the throttle. It is controlled by gearbox temp, oil temp, and water temp to name a few things.

The throttles begin closing early to make sure you do not 'over shoot' the redline. If you do this, your drivetrain AND powertrain warranty will immediately be voided.... that goes for cars in the US and overseas. On NA cars this is one of the things the ECU monitors and records highest level.

Sooo hypothetically speaking... if you were to purchase a tune with the THROTTLE OPEN ALL THE WAY AT REDLINE this would definitely cause your car to 'over shoot' the redline resulting in stored data showing you passed your rev limiter , resulting in a loss in your warranty. The 'soft cut' is there for a reason.

Now voiding your customers warranty after selling software my friend, that is poor taste.

Let me know if you have any other questions on how the DME in this car works...

edit: you guys can search on here for guys who have had warranty issues for overshooting the rev limiter...

[Alias]

What difference does it make even if you dont pass the revlimiter? either way your warrenty is voided cause you have a tune

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by Omar@ActiveAutowerke

It was NOT 1.5

wow... Standup stuff Mike.

Omar,

I am not intending on bashing you or your company. I know you guys have been around for a long time and have seen some of your quality products.

Perhaps you could let us know which version of your software was in that car? How about in powertrips car?

We have had significant gains on every car that we have retuned with your software. If you feel that this fact is misleading I am open to discussing it with you in a non-confrontational way.

[Omar@ActiveAutowerke]

Originally Posted by Alias

What difference does it make even if you dont pass the revlimiter? either way your warrenty is voided cause you have a tune

Dealers in the US do not have the ability to read the file on your ECU, a.k.a. your tune. However they can monitor the stored data, ie. highest rpm limit.

[Alias]

Originally Posted by Omar@ActiveAutowerke

Dealers in the US do not have the ability to read the file on your ECU, a.k.a. your tune. However they can monitor the stored data, ie. highest rpm limit.

So if I decide to flash my car, as long as I request my rpm limiter and speed limiter are not raised and somethiong does go wrong the ycan only look at past data and i should be able to keep my warrrenty?

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by Omar@ActiveAutowerke

This is correct. You would NOT want to do this because you will void the warranty.

FYI, the redline is not controlled by the throttle. It is controlled by gearbox temp, oil temp, and water temp to name a few things.

The throttles begin closing early to make sure you do not 'over shoot' the redline. If you do this, your drivetrain AND powertrain warranty will immediately be voided.... that goes for cars in the US and overseas. On NA cars this is one of the things the ECU monitors and records highest level.

Sooo hypothetically speaking... if you were to purchase a tune with the THROTTLE OPEN ALL THE WAY AT REDLINE this would definitely cause your car to 'over shoot' the redline resulting in stored data showing you passed your rev limiter , resulting in a loss in your warranty. The 'soft cut' is there for a reason.

Now voiding your customers warranty after selling software my friend, that is poor taste.

Let me know if you have any other questions on how the DME in this car works...

edit: you guys can search on here for guys who have had warranty issues for overshooting the rev limiter...

Omar,

As you know, there are a number of variables and sensor inputs that play into fueling, timing, vanos control, and redline on this car. The software in powertrips car does not remove the soft limiter nor the hard limiter. They are both in place and are functioning as intended. We would never alter anything in the software that would jeopardize the reliability or safety of the engine. The limits we have set in our software are safe and reliable.

I've spoken to many of your customers in the past which claim that your software pulls all the way to an increased redline, so I'm not sure why you think the redline changes are significantly different than in your software aside from the clear power and torque differences.

In first and second gear the car will cut injection sooner than the later gears to prevent an over shoot of redline. In the proceeding gears, the time spent in each gear while approaching redline is increased, which allows the rev limiter to kick in more "softly". We do not by any means allow our software to approach the hard revlimiter without hitting the soft limiter beforehand. This would lead to very jerky operation and the possibility for overshooting the redline which is not acceptable by anyone's means.

[FStop7]

Originally Posted by powertrip

Never heard anything back from you when I complained about my tune . Very poor taste...just my $.02 .

They're too busy selling nasty rims.

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by Omar@ActiveAutowerke

Dont' want to get into this and I am not here to bad mouth you or any vendor. I will continue to let our software speak for itself.

Best,

No disrespect but its not speaking very well these days chap..

Originally Posted by Alias

What difference does it make even if you dont pass the revlimiter? either way your warrenty is voided cause you have a tune

+1 Beat me to it. Either way u can potentially get screwed.

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by Omar@ActiveAutowerke

Dealers in the US do not have the ability to read the file on your ECU, a.k.a. your tune. However they can monitor the stored data, ie. highest rpm limit.

Afaik I know my rev limit wasn't raised number one. And I happen to know two different techs at two different BMW dealers that said if a problem is serious enough BMW NA Reps can read your car and tell its been flashed so that is false. And if its not that serious then you're basically in the same boat as everyone else.

[King Tut]

Man there is some serious lack of class in this thread. Posting a dyno plot of an E46 M3 supercharged just to crap on AA and their off the shelf tune shows a complete lack of class. Also as I mentioned the first time that powertrip plot was posted, look at the run numbers. The AA flash is run 9, the fully tuned flash is 26 and then the stock run is 31. So they fully tuned this car and then flashed it back to stock and made a pull. You can't compare an off the shelf tune and a custom tune anyways.

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Man there is some serious lack of class in this thread. Posting a dyno plot of an E46 M3 supercharged just to crap on AA and their off the shelf tune shows a complete lack of class. Also as I mentioned the first time that powertrip plot was posted, look at the run numbers. The AA flash is run 9, the fully tuned flash is 26 and then the stock run is 31. So they fully tuned this car and then flashed it back to stock and made a pull. You can't compare an off the shelf tune and a custom tune anyways.

I couldn't disagree more.

The dyno plot of the E46 Supercharged M3 retune was not posted to "crap on AA". It was simply shown to illustrate the power that we gained on that particular car which had AA software.

The issue about the run numbers being out of order is not relevant. The point is that on that particular car, the stock tune made considerably more power than the $600 "off the shelf special" than many people were given at Bimmerfest.

You are correct that you can not compare an off the shelf tune and a custom tune. However, a car should NEVER lose power over stock regardless of this fact. There is much more of a significant gain from stock to an "off the shelf tune" than from an "off the shelf tune" to a dyno tune.

Mike Benvo

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by King Tut

Man there is some serious lack of class in this thread. Posting a dyno plot of an E46 M3 supercharged just to crap on AA and their off the shelf tune shows a complete lack of class. Also as I mentioned the first time that powertrip plot was posted, look at the run numbers. The AA flash is run 9, the fully tuned flash is 26 and then the stock run is 31. So they fully tuned this car and then flashed it back to stock and made a pull. You can't compare an off the shelf tune and a custom tune anyways.

Well no one is stopping AA from posting up their own numbers and the way they do "custom" tunes they don't even touch the car so how much better is it gonna be? Especially in the case of the guy with the supercharger. And what about Powertrip he said he asked for help and got no response how's that for a lack of class? And what about the order of the runs? what difference does it make that it was flashed to stock AFTER.. It had its stock values replaced and didn't even get adapted back and still made more power then the AA tune that was most def fully adapated is that supposed to be unfair to AA somehow?

[Jonmartin]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

You're assuming that adaptation always moves power up. Didn't that get established the first time powertrip's dyno results were discussed -- that clearing adaptation usually makes the dyno numbers larger because the ECU hasn't had time to adapt down to lower quality fuel?

If that's true -- and I say "IF" because there's still a big question about the effects of clearing adaptation -- then the order of the dyno runs is in fact crucial to the observed results during powertrip's dyno testing.

Like Mike said either way AT NO point should it be ok for the tuned car to make less then the stock car does that even make sense PG?

[BPMSport]

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

You're assuming that adaptation always moves power up. Didn't that get established the first time powertrip's dyno results were discussed -- that clearing adaptation usually makes the dyno numbers larger because the ECU hasn't had time to adapt down to lower quality fuel?

If that's true -- and I say "IF" because there's still a big question about the effects of clearing adaptation -- then the order of the dyno runs is in fact crucial to the observed results during powertrip's dyno testing.

I've seen cars make power after clearing the adaptations, and I've seen cars lose power afterward.

It all comes down to how close the tuning parameters are in conjunction with the type and quality of gas being used.

[powertrip]

Negative, I've dyno'd my car at Autowave several times. It was running the same that day as it did previously (within 1.5hp).

Originally Posted by PencilGeek

You're assuming that adaptation always moves power up. Didn't that get established the first time powertrip's dyno results were discussed -- that clearing adaptation usually makes the dyno numbers larger because the ECU hasn't had time to adapt down to lower quality fuel?

If that's true -- and I say "IF" because there's still a big question about the effects of clearing adaptation -- then the order of the dyno runs is in fact crucial to the observed results during powertrip's dyno testing.