m3 s65 rod bearing procedure?

[Hussnainh8]

Hello

So just bought my first M3 E93 DCT 2009 in White. Love the car but dreading driving it as I have no history of the rod bearings being done before so I want to get them done before I drive it in case it becomes too late.

I am quite handy with cars as I do mechanics full time and do have a lot of experience however I haven't done the rod bearings on any car in my life and this is a first. I am from the UK and companies here charge around £1500 to do the bearings for you.. As much as I wouldn't mind paying it, I just dont have much trust in mechanics here in UK as I have heard a lot of stories therefore I would prefer if it was on my own ramp and at my own garage so I know exactly what is going on. Long story short after watching a lot of YouTube videos I saw that it doesn't seem to hard of a job to do other than the paying attention to the detail of the work. So I figured why dont I attempt it myself.

Few questions before I do start the job:

What is the best brand bearing kit to buy? Some people say go ARP and some say go OEM? UK answers only.

What's the torque spec of the rod bearing bolts so I know how much to tighten the bolts ones the bearings are fitted?

Does the subframe need to come down completely or can it just be pushed out the way? I have seen some people removing the control arms and steering rack etc to get the subframe out completely and then I have seen some people who just take out the subframe bolts and push the subframe out the way so what's the procedure? I would prefer a easier procedure if that helps.

Last question, I have seen people on YouTube labeling the bearings and having them set down in order ones the bearings are out, Is there an orientation for the bearings or a specific order that the bearings are meant to go into each rod? Why are people labelling their old bearings?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ACL-RACE-...SABEgI24_D_BwE

Here's a eBay link to some bearings by ACL, In the picture they all look the same exact size so surely it wouldn't matter which 1 of the bearings you put into each rod?

Thank you very much for all the answers I get and lets hope it will be a successful job!

Thanks.

[tbuck]

I would not use eBay for buying bearings, just a big no from me. YMMV.

BE bearings is really the best way to go, and get bolts from them as well. They can also provide torque specs and process info. Simply the best way to go IMHO.

https://bebearings.com/store/index.p...dex&cPath=53_1

[Idfkman]

BE bearings are the favorite around here for the most part with their spec'd ARP bolts.

I went with ACL bearings (mixed set for the correct clearance) and ARP bolts. Went with ACL because BE was back ordered at the time.

Had a shop do it and paid 2700 USD w/ motor mounts.

[Hussnainh8]

Thanks for reply.. am I missing something or those be bearings cost £600?????

Reddish or evolve want £1650 for the full job including labour?

They use OEM bearings though so what's the difference between OEM and be bearings?

Is this a hard job in terms of ones the oil pan is off.. how hard are the bearings to change themselves as they seem in a tight place?

Thanks for all the support.

Thanks.

[pbonsalb]

Read the rod bearing DIY thread.

[Davisca455]

Originally Posted by Hussnainh8

Thanks for reply.. am I missing something or those be bearings cost £600?????

Reddish or evolve want £1650 for the full job including labour?

They use OEM bearings though so what's the difference between OEM and be bearings?

Is this a hard job in terms of ones the oil pan is off.. how hard are the bearings to change themselves as they seem in a tight place?

Thanks for all the support.

Thanks.

I read this DIY and the notes from Theodore, several times.
There are some corresponding YouTube videos as well that I found to be really helpful in helping me make the decision to DIY.


https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...php?p=20971159

[amrazM]

Maybe phone up hack and see what they can sell you in terms of a bearing kit with bolts. A lot of people choose to go the ACL or king route these days even tho they are mixed bearings but I haven’t seen much in terms of negative feedback from them. The only preference I have would be the ARP rod bolts just because of the easier tightening sequence for them. I usually Do hand tight all the caps, then 25ftlbs spin over then 50ft lbs and spin over.


The process itself is straightforward just in depth and detailed more than it is difficult. Prepare yourself beforehand with new engine mounts, spark plugs, power steering fluid and maybe coolant if you are feeling like draining and refilling with new stuff. Once you get into it just put the car on your ramp, pull the plenum, pull all the plugs, pull the fan,support engine, pull the belts plus the lower tensioner that attaches to the fan, go on the bottom remove the 4arms where they attach to the subframe, remove the steering column joint, take care to remove the headlight level sensor arm, pull the plug for the servo tronic, remove the sway bar, disconnect the 10mm bolts that hold that metal bracket for the ps lines to the subframe, lower the subframe then disconnect the ps return line it has a 10mm on the from of the subframe where it’s secured to a rubber isolator, bring the subframe the rest of the way down and move it out of your way entirely.

Once you drop the pan and you go inside the engine don’t wear gloves as they tear easy the inside of the engine has razor sharp edges. You don’t want to leave behind pieces of glove

[InnerBlueSkies]

Extra Oil Clarence!

[SYT_Shadow]

It isn't too hard to do yourself, the DIY is in my signature, feel free to ask questions as they come up

I would replace them for BE bearings and BE-ARP bolts. Why deviate from the gold standard? Invest the money saved from doing the work yourself into better parts.

[Hussnainh8]

So im thinking to use this website and buy the ACL rod bearings with ARP bolts. Have called BMW to ask for a figure and they wanted over £700 for OEM bearings where as this website has the bearings and bolts for £493. Is it a good price?

I will buy Lemforder engine mounts and genuine oil filter, oil and oil sump gasket. Sound good?

https://www.rebuild.org.uk/buy-s65/

[jp1984]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

It isn't too hard to do yourself, the DIY is in my signature, feel free to ask questions as they come up

I would replace them for BE bearings and BE-ARP bolts. Why deviate from the gold standard? Invest the money saved from doing the work yourself into better parts.

This is what I did. If you are taking it all apart put the BE Bearings and ARP bolts in. Dont go to oem bearings, that is where the problem is!

Shadow knows his stuff on this and most other things E92. I would probably implicitly follow his advice.

I actually bought Bearings from a member here. It was a great deal.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1789076

I thought it was such a good deal I thought it was just for the bearings at first but it is for the bolts and bearings. I almost reached out to the person to do the moral thing and let them know they sent be bolts too and how much do I owe them, then I reread the posting and it is for both. I would ask that member if he may be able to ship them to you. I converted the price from USD to British pounds. the exchange rate should make it around $645 British Pounds. (then shipping)

Dont forget the oil pan gasket and doing the engine mounts at the same time. I sourced mine from bimmerworld I believe. You can find them from your preferred vendor.

Dont forget the oil and filter. This is what I got but youll need another bottle of oil.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NATZF2L...roduct_details


Sourcing your own parts this way saved me money at the time at least.

I had a shop do the servicing. I love working on my car, I just dont have the confidence to rebuild the bottom end of my motor. It is straight forward sure, but I know I would have goofed 1 small thing up and ruined everything due to a small misattention to detail. Id rather have the shop on the line for that one!

Though I wouldnt do the service myself, I would absolutely help someone else with it because we would have 4 eyes on everything!

[Hussnainh8]

Thanks for replys, I'm just trying to decide if I want to attempt it myself or give it to the professionals as last thing I would want to do is mess anything up.. so I guess my question is... Can doing it yourself go wrong in any way? I suppose you just got to make sure the bearings are seated properly and the bolts for the bearings are torqued to spec .. other than that is there any way of it going wrong? Could there be a potential chance of putting it back together and spinning a rod? I'm just being paranoid about it as I'm starting to think it might be better to pay for it to be done and atleast have that warranty with it. I just can't seem to justify spending around £900 on labour!!! The parts cost is around £700 and their total bill for the job including parts is £1650. 🧐🧐🧐🧐

[spammysammich]

Originally Posted by Hussnainh8

Thanks for replys, I'm just trying to decide if I want to attempt it myself or give it to the professionals as last thing I would want to do is mess anything up.. so I guess my question is... Can doing it yourself go wrong in any way? I suppose you just got to make sure the bearings are seated properly and the bolts for the bearings are torqued to spec .. other than that is there any way of it going wrong? Could there be a potential chance of putting it back together and spinning a rod? I'm just being paranoid about it as I'm starting to think it might be better to pay for it to be done and atleast have that warranty with it. I just can't seem to justify spending around £900 on labour!!! The parts cost is around £700 and their total bill for the job including parts is £1650. 🧐🧐🧐🧐

Have you done rod bearings on other platforms before? Also consider that this is a preventative measure and may need to happen again in the future. It's not crystal clear how long properly toleranced bearings will last in the car. Read the DIY threads and search for more on this subject. Then decide what your time and peace of mind is worth.

[Hussnainh8]

Originally Posted by spammysammich

Have you done rod bearings on other platforms before? Also consider that this is a preventative measure and may need to happen again in the future. It's not crystal clear how long properly toleranced bearings will last in the car. Read the DIY threads and search for more on this subject. Then decide what your time and piece of mind is worth.

Never before this is a first.. I have removed oil pans before and worked on suspensions and engine work but never the internal of the engine. Saying that I have done numerous jobs in mechanics but I'm limited in terms of internal work. Saying that.. by YouTube and forums it seems the engine is supported, subframe drops down, and control arms and oil pan down to access the rod bearings. Then it's a matter of take it slow do 1 rod at a time and torque it to spec.. I do feel confident in doing it to be honest but I'm just thinking of the worst that can happen. maybe I will just do some more research on it first.

Thanks

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Hussnainh8

Never before this is a first.. I have removed oil pans before and worked on suspensions and engine work but never the internal of the engine. Saying that I have done numerous jobs in mechanics but I'm limited in terms of internal work. Saying that.. by YouTube and forums it seems the engine is supported, subframe drops down, and control arms and oil pan down to access the rod bearings. Then it's a matter of take it slow do 1 rod at a time and torque it to spec.. I do feel confident in doing it to be honest but I'm just thinking of the worst that can happen. maybe I will just do some more research on it first.

Thanks

I mean, the 'worst that can happen' is you install a critical engine component incorrectly and your engine blows up or seizes.

That said, many many people have completed the DIY successfully, sometimes PM'ing/emailing or calling while they're working when they get stuck.
It can be done without issues if you follow the instructions and are careful and conscientious in your work.

[pbonsalb]

Patience and care are most important. Ideally have a friend who has done rod bearings on a car before help you. Using ARP or similar aftermarket rod bolts will make the job easier by reducing movements from about 175 to about 30 when torquing. As has been noted, screw something up and you will likely be buying a used motor. I am just a DIYer, but did the job on my 08 E90 M3.

[Peertwelve]

Originally Posted by Hussnainh8

Thanks for replys, I'm just trying to decide if I want to attempt it myself or give it to the professionals as last thing I would want to do is mess anything up.. so I guess my question is... Can doing it yourself go wrong in any way? I suppose you just got to make sure the bearings are seated properly and the bolts for the bearings are torqued to spec .. other than that is there any way of it going wrong? Could there be a potential chance of putting it back together and spinning a rod? I'm just being paranoid about it as I'm starting to think it might be better to pay for it to be done and atleast have that warranty with it. I just can't seem to justify spending around £900 on labour!!! The parts cost is around £700 and their total bill for the job including parts is £1650. 🧐🧐🧐🧐

900 for labor is less than 8k for a new block. There is a DIY here and lots of you tube content available. Might be good to confirm that you have all of the tools required before you decide. Good luck!

[akkando]

Originally Posted by Hussnainh8

Thanks for reply.. am I missing something or those be bearings cost £600?????

Reddish or evolve want £1650 for the full job including labour?

They use OEM bearings though so what's the difference between OEM and be bearings?

Is this a hard job in terms of ones the oil pan is off.. how hard are the bearings to change themselves as they seem in a tight place?

Thanks for all the support.

Thanks.

Do you want bearings that are measured and guaranteed to be the right size? Or do you want to roll the dice on ACL bearings that could be any size? Remember there's variance with anything that's manufactured, and that variance is part of the reason bearings end up without enough clearance on this platform and then spin. Why do you think the OEM bearings have issue in the first place?

[Hussnainh8]

Originally Posted by akkando

Do you want bearings that are measured and guaranteed to be the right size? Or do you want to roll the dice on ACL bearings that could be any size? Remember there's variance with anything that's manufactured, and that variance is part of the reason bearings end up without enough clearance on this platform and then spin. Why do you think the OEM bearings have issue in the first place?

How are the bmw ones the right ones when everyone has already said they have too tight of a oil clearance in the first place and ACL and be are better as they have better oil clearance? Am I missing something? Unless bmw have updated the bearings and made them fit better so it stops the problem from happening again? I just assumed going with bmw means the problem doesn't get fixed as it says online on websites... I'm confused.

Thanks.

[pbonsalb]

It is ignorant to say that buying ACL bearings is rolling the dice because they could be any size. Give the manufacturer some credit for having tolerances and quality control.

Certainly, if you are building a race motor or simply don’t trust the bearing seller, measure your bearings or pay someone else to measure them. I installed a set of stock bearings and a set of VAC bearings without measuring any of them and both E9x M3s are doing fine 7 years later.

[Davisca455]

Originally Posted by SYT_Shadow

I mean, the 'worst that can happen' is you install a critical engine component incorrectly and your engine blows up or seizes.

That said, many many people have completed the DIY successfully, sometimes PM'ing/emailing or calling while they're working when they get stuck.
It can be done without issues if you follow the instructions and are careful and conscientious in your work.

^
Truth.

After I had the DIY under way, there was a moment or two where I thought I knew what to do next or what I was looking at, but wasn't 100% certain.
I sent SYT_Shadow a PM and he got right back to me with the clarification/reassurance.
It was much appreciated to have that feeling of confidence moving forward!

I have rebuilt a handful of American V8s along the way, but a 1970 Buick 455 is a looong way from an S65.

What stood out to me:
As noted in the DIY thread, the rod caps are "cracked" off of each rod, and so the orientation is absolutely critical.
You can't be installing Buick 455 rod caps WillyNilly either, but if during assembly you caught that you messed up, you could correct it.
If you put an S65 rod cap on backwards and torque it up, there is a real possibility that you just fucked yourself…hard.

Also, I had access to a calibrated torque wrench. Highly recommend.

When contemplating to DIY or to pay someone else to do it, I had a realization that nobody loves my car more than I do, so after I determined that I had the ability, reading the DIY multiple times gave me the confidence.

[Hussnainh8]

Originally Posted by Davisca455

^
Truth.

After I had the DIY under way, there was a moment or two where I thought I knew what to do next or what I was looking at, but wasn't 100% certain.
I sent SYT_Shadow a PM and he got right back to me with the clarification/reassurance.
It was much appreciated to have that feeling of confidence moving forward!

I have rebuilt a handful of American V8s along the way, but a 1970 Buick 455 is a looong way from an S65.

What stood out to me:
As noted in the DIY thread, the rod caps are "cracked" off of each rod, and so the orientation is absolutely critical.
You can't be installing Buick 455 rod caps WillyNilly either, but if during assembly you caught that you messed up, you could correct it.
If you put an S65 rod cap on backwards and torque it up, there is a real possibility that you just fucked yourself…hard.

Also, I had access to a calibrated torque wrench. Highly recommend.

When contemplating to DIY or to pay someone else to do it, I had a realization that nobody loves my car more than I do, so after I determined that I had the ability, reading the DIY multiple times gave me the confidence.

I wonder what would happen if you loosen the bolts and the cap falls out onto the floor.. how would you know the orientation then 🧐🤭 I'm guessing if that happens you would need a new rod with cap as I doubt you can buy another cap the same as yours?

Thanks.