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      08-26-2018, 04:12 PM   #155
glennQNYC
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I don't think he has to respond to a grand jury, for granting a pardon?
I was referring to Manafort. If a president grants you a pardon you can be called before a grand jury and you have no Fifth Ammendment protection. You've been pardoned. Of course you can refuse to answer but then. You can be held in contempt and jailed till you decide it's not worth it.
Instead of a pardon, the President could reprieve Manafort's sentence. This may help retain Fifth Amendment protections.

Some legal scholars argue you could still plead the Fifth. The theory is you could still take the 5th on the basis that the pardon potentially doesn't cover everything you did, just everything the government knows about, and you can't be compelled to relieve their ignorance.

For instance, I rob a bank, and while on the run murder somebody who might have reported me to the police; Issuing me a pardon for the bank robbery can't require me to give testimony that might expose the murder.
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      08-26-2018, 06:02 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Instead of a pardon, the President could reprieve Manafort's sentence. This may help retain Fifth Amendment protections.

Some legal scholars argue you could still plead the Fifth. The theory is you could still take the 5th on the basis that the pardon potentially doesn't cover everything you did, just everything the government knows about, and you can't be compelled to relieve their ignorance.

For instance, I rob a bank, and while on the run murder somebody who might have reported me to the police; Issuing me a pardon for the bank robbery can't require me to give testimony that might expose the murder.
Listen to yourself. Here’s a guy that one of his jurors (who said she’s a trump supporter) said was overwhelmingly guilty. The jury couldn’t ignore the evidence she said. He was broke in the summer of 2016 and volunteered to work on the campaign for FREE. He was prosecuted for crimes unrelated to the campaign to get him to give up information regarding the Trump Tower meeting and the dozens of meetings that Jr and Jared and Sessions and Flynn and Page had with Russians and you’re trying to come up with ways that he could avoid telling all of us what he knows. The only people dirtier than Manafort are trump and his family. Your, and the rest of the rights attitude would be “sad” if it weren’t so dangerous.
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      08-28-2018, 11:45 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by ard5040 View Post
I was referring to Manafort. If a president grants you a pardon you can be called before a grand jury and you have no Fifth Ammendment protection. You’ve been pardoned. Of course you can refuse to answer but then. You can be held in contempt and jailed till you decide it’s not worth it.
Lets play along with your scenario... President Trump pardons Manafort. Manafort gets called before a grand jury and provides statements.

The public release of statements provided to a grand jury is not at all a given.

Yesterday Politico had an article that discussed this:
‘Sleeper’ case could torpedo Mueller report

Below is a part of the article...

Quote:
A little-noticed court case stemming from the apparent murder of a Columbia University professor six decades ago could keep special counsel Robert Mueller from publishing any information about the Trump campaign and Russia that he obtains through a Washington grand jury.

The substance of the case is entirely unrelated to Mueller’s investigation into whether any of President Donald Trump’s associates aided Russia’s efforts to intervene in the 2016 election.

But if a Washington appeals court set to hear the murder-related case next month sides with the Justice Department and rules that judges don’t have the freedom to release grand jury information that is usually kept secret, it could throw a monkey wrench into any plans Mueller has to issue a public report on his probe’s findings, lawyers following the issue said.

And it might even keep the special counsel from sending a report to Congress, shaking Democrats’ hopes that such a document could provide the impetus for impeachment proceedings against the president.

“It is a sleeper case,” Harvard Law professor Alex Whiting said. “If the D.C. Circuit were to accept the Department of Justice’s arguments…that would have potentially enormous implications for the future of the information from the Mueller investigation. That could close out a path by which that information becomes public.”
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      08-28-2018, 12:20 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ard5040 View Post
I was referring to Manafort. If a president grants you a pardon you can be called before a grand jury and you have no Fifth Ammendment protection. You've been pardoned. Of course you can refuse to answer but then. You can be held in contempt and jailed till you decide it's not worth it.
Lets play along with your scenario... President Trump pardons Manafort. Manafort gets called before a grand jury and provides statements.

The public release of statements provided to a grand jury is not at all a given.

Yesterday Politico had an article that discussed this:
'Sleeper' case could torpedo Mueller report

Below is a part of the article...

Quote:
A little-noticed court case stemming from the apparent murder of a Columbia University professor six decades ago could keep special counsel Robert Mueller from publishing any information about the Trump campaign and Russia that he obtains through a Washington grand jury.

The substance of the case is entirely unrelated to Mueller's investigation into whether any of President Donald Trump's associates aided Russia's efforts to intervene in the 2016 election.

But if a Washington appeals court set to hear the murder-related case next month sides with the Justice Department and rules that judges don't have the freedom to release grand jury information that is usually kept secret, it could throw a monkey wrench into any plans Mueller has to issue a public report on his probe's findings, lawyers following the issue said.

And it might even keep the special counsel from sending a report to Congress, shaking Democrats' hopes that such a document could provide the impetus for impeachment proceedings against the president.

"It is a sleeper case," Harvard Law professor Alex Whiting said. "If the D.C. Circuit were to accept the Department of Justice's arguments…that would have potentially enormous implications for the future of the information from the Mueller investigation. That could close out a path by which that information becomes public."
Probably won't affect anything
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      08-28-2018, 06:19 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glennQNYC View Post
Lets play along with your scenario... President Trump pardons Manafort. Manafort gets called before a grand jury and provides statements.

The public release of statements provided to a grand jury is not at all a given.

Yesterday Politico had an article that discussed this:
‘Sleeper’ case could torpedo Mueller report

Below is a part of the article...
Saw that this morning. It only gives a GOP controlled Congress cover. If the 60 year old decision is applicable the public would never see what Manafort testified to and they, the GOP, could say nothing here. That assumes of course that the GOP holds onto the House and/or Senate. Let’s see where things stand the second week in November. You’re still looking for any way to keep the truth from the public. For a group that is so sure that trump is innocent the right is desperate to keep the truth from the public. Of course 85% of trump’s supporters would be okay with him even if he’s guilty as hell. Fascism is the new black. (That isn’t an Obama reference boys)

Last edited by ard5040; 08-29-2018 at 07:03 AM.
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      09-04-2018, 12:35 PM   #160
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Jury selection begins for second Manafort trial
https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/04/polit...ion/index.html
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