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      11-27-2018, 02:33 PM   #1
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Steering wheel shake

It's been happening since 2 months already. Hard to tell what is the reason but in the last time I had left tie rod front brake pads replaced, then full alignment at the dealer. Happened both on summer 19s and winter 18 (these are only a year old), so wheel balance is unlikely. At about 140 km/h I would get quite hard vibration/shaking in the steering wheel which goes on and off fluently.

I have added 15mm spacers in the front to see if it changes and it did quite a lot, the shaking is more sever and appears at just over 100 km/h.
I have also noticed that there is a weird pattern - the steering wheel shakes for about 10s, then stops and out of a sudden the gear lever starts vibrating for a few seconds Then it repeats. The engine mounts are new - vibra technics.

I know there was some damage to the left wheel about 2 years ago, but the car was driving perfectly fine at even higher speeds and on track so far. I know the left lower control arm and tie rod were replaced.
My plan is to replace the tension arm, do full alignment and wheel balance again and see if it helps, if not then replace the wheel bearing and maybe the spindle to have all suspension components on the left wheel new. Is there anything else I should look into?

There is no audible clunk when coming to a stop, no audible wheel bearing noise and none of the front suspension components feels loose. No wheel shake when braking or turning. At lower speeds car drives well.
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      11-27-2018, 03:11 PM   #2
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do you have OEM rims or aftermarket?
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      11-27-2018, 03:13 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Cbozz View Post
do you have OEM rims or aftermarket?
Summer were BBS CH, winter are OEM 270m. New tyres were installed last year and the wheels were balanced.
I also checked the pressures and they are fine.
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      11-27-2018, 08:00 PM   #4
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same situation for me
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1556612
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      11-27-2018, 08:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strokemycocktus View Post
Summer were BBS CH, winter are OEM 270m. New tyres were installed last year and the wheels were balanced.
I also checked the pressures and they are fine.

I don't know if that makes any difference but I had the same issue before and solved it with this

I have Strasse R10s 20s and didn't realize but they are bored out to 73.1mm and our OEM bore is 72.6mm... that's 0.5mm difference which is nothing but in the end your rims is holding on the bolts instead of the wheel hub.. and when you get speed the hub drops and hits the inside of the bore cuz it has 0.5mm of room and that's how I was getting my vibrations when driving over 70mph...

I ended up buying those hub centric rings and it worked like magic! no more vibrations!!!
you may have a different issues but I would definitely try this!!
If your rim comes off the car easy and it's not "stuck on" when trying to take it off you may have that issue.. especially in aftermarket rims.
Give it a shot and let me know...


here is the link to rings I got
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-OF-4-HU...S!-1:rk:6:pf:0
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      11-28-2018, 06:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Route 16 View Post
Yeah, I've seen it. Too bad no fix was found.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cbozz View Post
I don't know if that makes any difference but I had the same issue before and solved it with this

I have Strasse R10s 20s and didn't realize but they are bored out to 73.1mm and our OEM bore is 72.6mm... that's 0.5mm difference which is nothing but in the end your rims is holding on the bolts instead of the wheel hub.. and when you get speed the hub drops and hits the inside of the bore cuz it has 0.5mm of room and that's how I was getting my vibrations when driving over 70mph...

I ended up buying those hub centric rings and it worked like magic! no more vibrations!!!
you may have a different issues but I would definitely try this!!
If your rim comes off the car easy and it's not "stuck on" when trying to take it off you may have that issue.. especially in aftermarket rims.
Give it a shot and let me know...


here is the link to rings I got
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SET-OF-4-HU...S!-1:rk:6:pf:0
Thanks for the info, I'll look into that as well. But do OEM wheels require hubcentric rings? Also, quite weird that on two completely different sets of wheels the shaking was exactly the same.

My bets are on tension arm (maybe both?) or wheel bearing so far.

But the strangest part is that the shaking is intermittent and goes from the steering wheel to the gear lever and back. Can something be causing the whole subframe to vibrate that much?
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      12-05-2018, 12:08 PM   #7
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I would say even though it happens on both wheelsets, to check road force numbers.

I had vibration issues above 100km/H with 15mm spacers and brand new BBS GT4/Michelin PS4S wheels. I didn't have the vibrations with the factory 219M wheels but when I put the 15mm spacers one, the vibration existed as well. I sure as hell thought it was the spacers so I tried an 18, and 12. That didn't help at all. Ultimately I asked another shop to road force my GT4s. Turns out the bead was not 100% seated (visually it looked it was) and they were able to get road force numbers down from 45lbs to 11lbs. I no longer have vibration issues with the GT4s with 15 and even 18mm spacers. I do not know if I have vibration issues with the factory 219M and spacers as I did not road force balance those wheels.

I'm not saying this is the cause of your vibrations but road forcing the wheelset will definitely rule it out if the numbers are low enough.
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      12-17-2018, 04:29 AM   #8
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jack your car up and pussh/pull your wheel.

If you have slop you know the issue!

I had similar symptoms my mechanic hadn't torqued tension arm nuts up properly...
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      01-04-2019, 06:35 PM   #9
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Ok, so I have done some work, the vibration is less pronounced but still present.
Had the left tension arm replaced (ball joint was considered faulty).
New wheel bushing on the left (old one was noisy).
All wheels balanced.
Full alignment done.

I have also cleaned the hubs and spacers and torqued them to spec. Spacers are Eibach 15mm with centering hub. The wheels sit flush on them, there is no play. OEM BMW wheels so no need for special centering rings.

The car is drivable and it definitely is better now, but still the vibration shouldn't be there. It appears at around 120 km/h.

I now I could try it without spacers, but with everything done correctly they shouldn't introduce vibration AFAIK. Spacers tend to escalate any existing problem, so I think it should be investigated as is.

I am going to have the shock absorbers checked, maybe one of them is faulty, I don't know. If anyone has an idea hit me up!
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      01-09-2019, 01:55 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strokemycocktus View Post
Ok, so I have done some work, the vibration is less pronounced but still present.
Had the left tension arm replaced (ball joint was considered faulty).
New wheel bushing on the left (old one was noisy).
All wheels balanced.
Full alignment done.

I have also cleaned the hubs and spacers and torqued them to spec. Spacers are Eibach 15mm with centering hub. The wheels sit flush on them, there is no play. OEM BMW wheels so no need for special centering rings.

The car is drivable and it definitely is better now, but still the vibration shouldn't be there. It appears at around 120 km/h.

I now I could try it without spacers, but with everything done correctly they shouldn't introduce vibration AFAIK. Spacers tend to escalate any existing problem, so I think it should be investigated as is.

I am going to have the shock absorbers checked, maybe one of them is faulty, I don't know. If anyone has an idea hit me up!
Did you measure the road force on the wheels when they were balanced?
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      01-09-2019, 01:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derbo View Post
Did you measure the road force on the wheels when they were balanced?
No, I couldn't a shop that offers road force balancing anywhere in my city lol.
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      01-09-2019, 02:34 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strokemycocktus View Post
No, I couldn't a shop that offers road force balancing anywhere in my city lol.
I have the same issue and it was due to small wheel bent due to some irregular road work here.

To go forth with this, id suggest to get the road force checked and have the same shop check for any bend in the wheel.

If you are going to run the spaces, try to get balancing done with the wheel mounted to the car - this would help with getting the wheels balances together with the spacer and the disks.

I also did something that helped me getting the vibration less as I couldnt find a shop to do my wheel balancing on ground, which was sticking the spacer with the rim while balancing.

Of course, you also have to confirm that there is no issues with bushes, and that the stabilizer links are healthy.

Hope you get it resolved soon.
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      01-09-2019, 02:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli7 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by strokemycocktus View Post
No, I couldn't a shop that offers road force balancing anywhere in my city lol.
I have the same issue and it was due to small wheel bent due to some irregular road work here.

To go forth with this, id suggest to get the road force checked and have the same shop check for any bend in the wheel.

If you are going to run the spaces, try to get balancing done with the wheel mounted to the car - this would help with getting the wheels balances together with the spacer and the disks.

I also did something that helped me getting the vibration less as I couldnt find a shop to do my wheel balancing on ground, which was sticking the spacer with the rim while balancing.

Of course, you also have to confirm that there is no issues with bushes, and that the stabilizer links are healthy.

Hope you get it resolved soon.
Thanks for the advice. I may look into balancing the wheels on the car - this is a rather easily available service.
But to me the problem with the wheels is less likely, as the vibration was present with two completely different sets of wheels as I mentioned before - summer BBS 19", obviously with no spacers, winter BMW 270M wheels without and then with 15mm Eibach spacers up front. Shimmy was present with all these sets, pronounced the most with spacers installed.

I was told I shouldn't replace only one thrust arm and that at least the bushing On the other side should be replaced as well, which I plan to do soon.

I'll go for another suspension inspection this week. Does a faulty sway bar link have play, or what are the symptoms?
Also, would a worn/damaged strut cause such vibration? The left front wheel took some damage in the accident a while ago, and the only parts that haven't been replaced are the strut and sway bar link. Visually there were completely no signs of damage though.
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      01-09-2019, 03:09 PM   #14
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Balancing wheels with the spacers is not necessary especially if it is only static balancing.

Static (normal) balancing measures up and down motion. Road force balancing will help assist lateral side to side motion as well.

Is there any within 100 miles? I highly suggest you get someone to do this.
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      01-09-2019, 03:10 PM   #15
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I changed my stabiliser links while i was in the loop of having the vibration and cannot pin point if it was the reason for help of removing those.

As this exist for both sets, its somthing commun either to the car, or the actual storage of the rims so have them checked for flatspots as well, however, flat spots would cause more of a wobble on all speeds.
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      01-09-2019, 03:20 PM   #16
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Ok, I searched again and there are a few shops offering road force balancing. I'll make an appointment and get it done there along with the inspection.

No flat spots on the tyres. Also, the car was driving perfectly fine, problems started end of summer, so I am leaning towards suspension problems.
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      01-22-2019, 03:34 PM   #17
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Do any of the rotors rub on the brake pads when you spin them? I had this problem and tracked it down to one rotor that wasn’t seating perfectly on the hub. The harmonic vibration could only really be felt at ~70mph.
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      01-22-2019, 04:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Do any of the rotors rub on the brake pads when you spin them? I had this problem and tracked it down to one rotor that wasn’t seating perfectly on the hub. The harmonic vibration could only really be felt at ~70mph.
Yes, the left one does. No shimmy upon breaking though.
The rotor was removed for spindel+bearing replacement, the surface was cleaned before it was reseated to the hub. Didn't change anything, still rubs the brake pads intermittently when I turn the wheel. You say this can cause steering wheel vibration on higher speeds, without shimmy when braking?
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      01-25-2019, 04:40 PM   #19
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Had road force balancing done. One wheel was just a bit off, the second was 95Nm off. They managed to get it down to 65Nm by rotating the tyre 180 degrees om the rim. It didn't do shit for the vibration - the steering wheel still shakes at around 120-150 kmh. It's possible that the tire needs to be replaced, or that there is a problem somewhere in the suspension.
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      01-25-2019, 05:33 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strokemycocktus View Post
Had road force balancing done. One wheel was just a bit off, the second was 95Nm off. They managed to get it down to 65Nm by rotating the tyre 180 degrees om the rim. It didn't do shit for the vibration - the steering wheel still shakes at around 120-150 kmh. It's possible that the tire needs to be replaced, or that there is a problem somewhere in the suspension.
Thats still pretty bad run out on that tire. For reference, my worst wheels which I put on the rear axle is about 18Nm, fronts are at 10Nm.
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      01-26-2019, 06:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SFCM3 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by strokemycocktus View Post
Had road force balancing done. One wheel was just a bit off, the second was 95Nm off. They managed to get it down to 65Nm by rotating the tyre 180 degrees om the rim. It didn't do shit for the vibration - the steering wheel still shakes at around 120-150 kmh. It's possible that the tire needs to be replaced, or that there is a problem somewhere in the suspension.
Thats still pretty bad run out on that tire. For reference, my worst wheels which I put on the rear axle is about 18Nm, fronts are at 10Nm.
I know, this probably means I need to get a new tire (or a pair actually). Good thing they are about 1 year old, should be covered by the warranty.
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      01-27-2019, 12:35 PM   #22
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95Nm and 65Nm is a very high amount of road force. For reference again in the proper units, my lowest tires are about 10Nm with the worse tire being 24Nm. Hopefully, we are making progress! My tire guy had added lots of 'tire butter' and raised the tire pressure higher than normal to get the bead to seat 100% properly on my BBS wheels. Prior to that, the original tires were mounted with almost 66Nm run out.
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