Intro

[datal1]

What's the supersprint like compared to Eisenmann Race?

I'm trying to find something that is just under a race...so either eisenmann sport or akra slip on (will do rest of the exhaust system later, just looking for sound now). Also considering the ipe innotech with the valves to go extra loud when i want it! Also a daily driver. Had a eisenmann race on the 335i and that was just perfect for that car in loudness

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by Dzenko

... Maybe we meet get takeaway coffee and witness the work take place if you are keen on meeting this week?

Sure ... message me and I'll tag along.

[MFKN3]

I think akra is highly overrated in terms of sound. Eisenmann race without front pipes sounds really good, but will always drone

[Dzenko]

Originally Posted by MFKN3

I think akra is highly overrated in terms of sound. Eisenmann race without front pipes sounds really good, but will always drone

I think that exhaust conversations should always be separated from sound vs. performance.
For example if you are looking at a performance boost to your car you need to get a full exhaust. To get an optimum performance output, people say and I reiterate (not me but) People say that Akra is the way to go and the rest of exhausts don't even come near it...

Onto the flip side of the conversation is sound. Now if you ask me anything aftermarket catback will definitely produce a different sound. Sooo it then comes down to personal preference of what tone you enjoy while riding. Unlike the performance upgrade goal, the sound upgrade becomes a little trickier. There is no leader in the market and personal preference prevails.

Now he is the punchline, I would be wrong to say that the supersprint sport exhaust is better than the akra catback only because I am in the market for a supersprint exhaust. That would be very misleading and I found I wasted lots of time going in circles.


What is really good here is that we got Davee. His setups are pretty bloody good by the looks of things. Now Davee's opinion I would value if I needed to debate between exhaust's performance output.

Simply put:
You want an exhaust that optimizes performance go with Akra or ask Davee.
You want an exhaust for the sake of change in sound, go with your gut feel and don't ask anyone anything

Thoughts?

[MFKN3]

That's a fair call, although added performance is overrated too and also comes down to tuning. I don't think an akra would give any more performance than a competitors full exhaust system, so I think the primary consideration for exhaust is like you say, whether you like the sound. The ultimate would be to have a valved system so you can have the best of both.

DaveDee has had about 6 different exhausts and various tunes now, so would be good to ask about sound and performance

[DaveDee]

Guilty as charged MFKN3!!!.
It’s a good thread and very sensible comments, and I think as everyone agrees there are two distinct areas, how it sounds to you and how it performs.

In many ways how it sounds is one of the more important aspects as it is a permanent and ongoing sensation, performance you get used to and it becomes the norm, but a factor often overlooked is what the exhaust sounds like inside the car compared to outside the car. This is a really big factor in choosing the right system, you could say the better it sounds from the outside the harder it is to live with on the inside. What might be awesome on the track is not ideal for sneaking home late at night

Just for the record I've had the following set ups and these are my own experiences
First got the car: it was supplied with

Remus sport This was really too loud and droney so…. Within a week…

Stock exhaust as a place holder. I didn’t find any significant difference in power levels from the Remus to stock in terms of power, but started the search for an exhaust to love

Eisenmann Sport.
This was a really good quality build with a nice deep tone but only about 3dB louder than stock. For many this is a good setup and a good daily drive, but as you get used to the exhaust you tend to want a bit more volume. MFKN3 and I did a comparison vid between the sport and the race which indicated the differences in volume with virtually identical tones. Mild drone around the 2K RPM

Eisenmann Race
This was a deep, throaty and muscle car sounding exhaust on the outside that turns heads but the drone was too much for many as a daily drive/family car MFKN3 got the Challenge Engineering sport X-pipe at the same time with his Eiesnmann Race and I remember he called me just after fitting it and saying how it broke the sound barrier! A few days later we confirmed that, it was one of the loudest systems I’ve heard and is to date. It also changed the tone from a deep throaty tone to a very sharp, aggressive, almost angry tone

Fitting an aftermarket X pipe will dramatically change the volume and tone of the exhaust, the OE x-pipe has 2 x 400 CPSI primary cats, 2 x 200 CPSI secondary cats and an effective resonator set.

The Eisenmann race went back to the sport on mine as it had far too much cabin drone for my liking at around that 1500-2000 RPM mark. On mine it was still the OE x pipe.

Akrapovic Evolution In search for the perfect exhaust I got one of these after reading so many reports on the quality. There is absolutely no doubt at all about the quality and fitment of this exhaust system, and the way it’s shipped. A real work of art. This was the first full system I put on the car so I was expecting big performance gains. The car already had an Evolve tune but I was not aware of this at the time of purchase. The Evo design had both an X crossing and at the front an H join. This joint was a slip on join with no clamping.

This is where I have to split the exhaust into two areas as it was my first full exhaust. On the sound side it was totally drone free and had an unusual sound. I felt it sounded more like a V6 than an 8, was quite sophisticated and very “Euro” but the sound was not for me. There was a constant leaky sound coming from the H joint. Under full noise from outside on a track day, others commented on how good it sounded, but it never really did anything for me after the initial install. I did like it at first but went off the sound very quickly as it just did not have that deep muscle car V8 sound. That’s not to say it’s not good, I just didn’t like it, my wife did like it and it does suit daily driving well. It comes with 100 CPSI HF cats and stinks a bit, and very much doubt it would pass any emissions testing.

Performance wise I didn’t notice a huge difference but it was improved a little and until the Dealership flashed over the tune one service I didn’t realise the benefits of a tune I’d been enjoying. Stock was terrible, the X pipe really needs that tune to even out the performance, so I ended up getting an ESS tune on the old direct flash which brought the car back to a much better feeling, smoother and more driveable.

Gintani Valved Sport with Gintani X-pipe with HFC/Quad Resonated/back to stock X-pipe with Primary cat delete

After hearing Ben’s AW M3 with a the Gintani Race and primary cat delete I could not get on line fast enough and order a system, but I was worried about it being too loud so I went for the sport valved with the X-pipe. In exhaust terms the valves are one of the most practical and useful options and with the press of a remote can turn the car from a reasonable street volume with little to mild drone to a full on monster. The Gintani sport is not an inherently loud exhaust but add it to an X pipe and the volume goes up at least double and it’s a higher pitch than OE X pipe. I really enjoyed this system and by this time had got to know the guys at Gintani and had taken on a dealership, so I had to “sample” the variants. Because the Gintani X pipe is joined at the front there are (like some others) options. I then tried replacing the front HF Cats (200 CPSI) with the resonated front pipes. Louder again and raspier and for the first time noticeable performance gain on its own. MFKN3 and I had around the same set ups bar the cats, and he told me one he found it hard to keep up on the main straight at QR after I did the cat delete. It also sounds so much better without cats. After supercharging the car it sounded so aggressive I thought it was time to tone it back a bit, so the stock X pipe went back on with a primary cat delete. Honestly at the time I first drove it I thought I’d left the handbrake on, such a difference but the fines for full catless are so high it’s not worth the risk of being caught, and it smells so much getting caught is ineveitable. Got used to it and the stock X pipe with primary cat delete returned a really deep, throaty sound at less than half the volume

I sold the X pipe to one of our members who coupled it with an Akra slip on and it sounded totally different to the Akra Evo or Akra cat back, was quite loud, deeper than the Akra Evo and quite raspy. He loved it and it sounded good on the track, and he was happy with the gains after getting one of Mike Benvo’s (BPM Sport) tunes. Hybrid systems like this are hard to predict but they can be interesting. This was a good result and most importantly a very happy owner

Gintani Race Valved with OE X pipe and primary cat delete
This is my current setup and I like it the best, once again at the behest of my wife, (she’s amazing  I should test all systems that I sell and to that end I sold the valved sport to a member and put the valved race on our car. It is the valves once again that save the day, the Gintani race with the stock X-pipe and primary cat delete is loud but not over the top. It is very deep and throaty and has a very aggressive sound. Closing the valves on a race system makes a big difference, the pitch increases a little and the deep boomey sound changes to a raspier more pitched sound. Very little cabin drone valves closed, to quite a lot of drone open and at low RPM. Cruising on the highway with the valves open all you hear is a deep purring sound, no drone at all after 2000 RPM, valves closed on the highway it’s like stock… but its loud outside and sounds awesome.

X-pipe will definitely make good gains but the sound levels go up dramatically and are hard to control. The exception was the Arkra Evo which is not too loud.

I've heard other exhaust systems I really like the sound of but have not experienced, eg the Borla

Honestly I’m not wanting to talk or sound like a Vendor here but wanted to share my own experience as a daily driver. Would I use an X pipe again? Probably not, full catless is just too risky and the gains from a primary cat delete on stock are good enough for most with good gains and nicer sound.

M Performance Exhaust
After a visit to Perth where I had the good fortune and great time to meet up with some of you guys I experienced the M performance as a passenger and heard it from outside the car. Once again a totally different sound, totally drone free but more a raspier higher tone, but nice. These cars also had the primary cat delete.

Just about every system I’ve seen and used has been really good quality and something you would be happy to put on the car. Appearance was different on all with the Eiesnmann and M Performance having larger canisters than the others with smaller individual mufflers.

Whatever you choose try and go for a run first, because you might love the sound outside and can’t live with the cabin sound. Videos can be deceptive. There are plenty of us here to share and even if means spending $200 on an interstate return flight to hear your perspective system it’s money well spent
.
One of the best (and most expensive) solutions is to get a valved system, that way you have the best of both worlds. There are a few brands now doing valves…..
To finish this particularly long post...
As Dirty Harry once said “opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and everyone thinks the other person’s stinks”

[Dzenko]

Well put Dave and thanks for the detailed review. That post right there should be a bookmark in all of our browsers.
WA boys - I been advised that my exhaust should go up around Saturday 12:30. If time suits drop me a text and feel welcome to come to Malaga. We can grab a coffee and talk crap while the install gets done

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by Dzenko

Well put Dave and thanks for the detailed review. That post right there should be a bookmark in all of our browsers.
WA boys - I been advised that my exhaust should go up around Saturday 12:30. If time suits drop me a text and feel welcome to come to Malaga. We can grab a coffee and talk crap while the install gets done

I don't know about talking crap ... it will be pissing down on Saturday ... cats and dogs

[aussiem3]

Dave ... thank you very much for the detailed write up.

But guess what, I love my ///PE with test pipes and BPM tune. I am grinning from ear to ear every time I drive this car.

[DaveDee]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

Dave ... thank you very much for the detailed write up.

But guess what, I love my ///PE with test pipes and BPM tune. I am grinning from ear to ear every time I drive this car.

That's it K, you gotta love it and the ///PE sounds great,
and agreed the primary cat delete makes a big difference. Interestingly enough our exhaust installer here likes the OE secondary cats and has recommended not swapping them out for good brands like Magnaflow 200 CPSI HFC. He told me they were good quality metal cats that would even stand up to SC installs. So it saves quite a bit not lashing out for a new X pipe when a primary cat delete retaining the stock secondary cats and resonators will do the job just nicely. The tune is the icing on the cake and really needed with that cat delete.

[aussiem3]

Originally Posted by DaveDee

That's it K, you gotta love it and the ///PE sounds great,
and agreed the primary cat delete makes a big difference. Interestingly enough our exhaust installer here likes the OE secondary cats and has recommended not swapping them out for good brands like Magnaflow 200 CPSI HFC. He told me they were good quality metal cats that would even stand up to SC installs. So it saves quite a bit not lashing out for a new X pipe when a primary cat delete retaining the stock secondary cats and resonators will do the job just nicely. The tune is the icing on the cake and really needed with that cat delete.

You have spoken

[DaveDee]

Originally Posted by aussiem3

You have spoken

:

Can't wait to get back to the West.

Also looking forward to hearing and a vid of Dzenko's new system

[Stilly]

Hi there guys,

Loving the exchange of information on here, as has been said, plenty of people have got, or experienced many forms of the available exhausts.

I recently just chopped up my OEM exhaust to carry out the exhaust Mod, and I can honestly say I am very happy with the result.

Way more character than prior to Mod deeper throatier sound. At highway speed can not hear the exhaust at all. ( no drone )

Up here in Townsville nothing to compare to but as said very happy with result.

Obviously a way cheaper option than any of the other exhausts out there. I did the job at home on car ramps 3.5hrs from out to test drive.

Just my two bobs worth anyhow as I had noticed that no one had mentioned this one.

Cheers
Stilly

[Dzenko]

Originally Posted by DaveDee

:

Can't wait to get back to the West.

Also looking forward to hearing and a vid of Dzenko's new system

I shall see to get some iphone videos up there, i have no gopro

[Dzenko]

Originally Posted by Stilly

Hi there guys,

Loving the exchange of information on here, as has been said, plenty of people have got, or experienced many forms of the available exhausts.

I recently just chopped up my OEM exhaust to carry out the exhaust Mod, and I can honestly say I am very happy with the result.

Way more character than prior to Mod deeper throatier sound. At highway speed can not hear the exhaust at all. ( no drone )

Up here in Townsville nothing to compare to but as said very happy with result.

Obviously a way cheaper option than any of the other exhausts out there. I did the job at home on car ramps 3.5hrs from out to test drive.

Just my two bobs worth anyhow as I had noticed that no one had mentioned this one.

Cheers
Stilly

Good effort if you did it yourself in that time-frame. I suspect you have never done this before either. Maybe put up a video or pictures if you have got any of the progress.

Thanks

[DaveDee]

Originally Posted by Dzenko

I shall see to get some iphone videos up there, i have no gopro

I know Chris has a GoPro, ( a couple I think) I'm sure he'd be happy to help out. It's in a housing with a suction cap too, so you can get some good sound clips from the back.

A few guys have done an OE mod with great success, the only downside returning to stock if you get a defect or ... dread to use the words... decide to sell

[Stilly]

Originally Posted by Dzenko

Good effort if you did it yourself in that time-frame. I suspect you have never done this before either. Maybe put up a video or pictures if you have got any of the progress.

Thanks

No never done it before, but just followed the videos / photos that are already around of the mod. Was going to video, photo but I would not have added anything to what is already out there.
Took before and after video of sound but can't seem to add clip.

[boostED82]

Originally Posted by Dzenko

Simply put:
You want an exhaust that optimizes performance go with Akra or ask Davee.
You want an exhaust for the sake of change in sound, go with your gut feel and don't ask anyone anything

Thoughts?

Dzenko - I'm very pleased with my Akra Evo and ESS tune setup... More than happy to let you have a drive/listen anytime.

Cheers,
Ed

[Dzenko]

Originally Posted by boostED82

Dzenko - I'm very pleased with my Akra Evo and ESS tune setup... More than happy to let you have a drive/listen anytime.

Cheers,
Ed

Come to Malaga if you are free on saturday

[DAL344]

Ed will probably have had his daily coffee intake in Nedlands Saturday morning

[boostED82]

Woops, sorry guys missed Saturday... How'd it all go Dzenko?

[Dzenko]

Confession...the install took place in Carlisle instead of Malaga. Change of venue was recommended by my mechanic due to hoist convenience. Sadly, i couldn't advice early enough so to have anyone attend.

I will post all my iPhone photos so forgive the quality and possible duplication.

Thus far I am of mixed opinion.
The power effect I haven't noticed. Nor am I sure that I should have. It is an catback install only and not a full exhaust.

Sound - exterior is beyond normal on how much more I like it. Sounds mean, and rough certainly not too loud. When you step on it, it gets beyond words.

Downfall.... you are doing sixty and my dct is revving between 1.5 and 2k, the cabin noise is unpleasantly noticeable. BIG BIG BIG no No no... This has meant that I need to revs higher than 2k so I am opening up more so then what I did before. Good luck to my fuel consumption. With that I increase risk of speeding... I need to find a way of overcoming that problem.

I think supersprint recommend this for a manual car, right now i think its because of the flexibility to stay out of 1.5k to 2k revs so to minimize cabin noise. I don't mind it, you know what they say if its too loud you are too old and I am not. However, it is at times unpleasant to hold a conversation with someone at that noise level. I need to take the WA boys for a spin so they can judge for themselves.

The install was done by the mechanic and myself. There wasn't too many things that could have gone wrong but I still have the odd suspension that had it been done professionally the cabin noise would be less painful.


Any thoughts on how I bring this down?
Should I get it looked at by RAMP?