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10-19-2008, 10:05 AM | #45 | |
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10-19-2008, 04:21 PM | #46 | |
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-Rich |
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10-19-2008, 04:22 PM | #47 | |
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10-19-2008, 04:24 PM | #48 | |
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The bottom line, the car IS faster and will FEEL faster with shorter gearing. 13% torque does not equal 13% more acceleration improvement in the 1/4, don't know where or how you made that correlation. |
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10-19-2008, 04:32 PM | #49 | |
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The car is faster with the shorter gears, especially the DCT which would absolutely destroy a manual with 4.10's. This gearing discussion has happened many times over on M5board, I suggest you educate yourself on the real world difference (this is going to 3.91 which is about the same as the manual M3 would be going to 4.10): http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...k-results.html "There is a substantial difference in the acelleration. Here are the results, using average numbers: ------------------------Stock -----------------------Dinan ----------------------Difference 60 ft. time ---------2.229 sec------------------2.225 sec----------------0.004 sec 0-60 mph ---------4.56 sec---------------------4.40 sec------------------0.16 sec Quarter Mile -----12.78 @ 115.59 ---------12.54 @ 118.24 -------0.24 sec, 2.65 mph 50 - 110 mph-----7.86 sec---------------------7.31sec-------------------0.55 sec" The difference on the road course is great as well, spending more time at higher revs and GETTING there faster. |
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10-19-2008, 05:42 PM | #50 | |||
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If you care to read what I posted, and actually think about it for minute as opposed to posting videos, you'll see that I have, from the very beginning, said the 4.10 car will be slightly faster, but not by the amount of additional reduction in the new LSD. Why is that so hard to understand? Anyway, I don't have a problem with you, so let's cool this off and get on with the rest of the discussion.
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10-19-2008, 06:01 PM | #51 | |
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The type of analysis I posted is every bit applicable to DCT. You just need to use different numbers for the stock and modified final drives and gear ratios, that's all. The plot would look very similar, with the stock car putting down significantly more torque at certain vehicle speed ranges after the modified car shifts. Give me the stock and modified final drive ratios for DCT, and I'll plot those as well.
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10-19-2008, 06:04 PM | #52 | |
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10-19-2008, 06:11 PM | #53 | |
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10-19-2008, 06:14 PM | #54 | |
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The shorter gearing is a constant, its multiplication is always higher. Once you start taking into account other variables, speed, shifts, etc, it naturally changes. |
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10-19-2008, 06:17 PM | #55 |
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I haven't accounted for the shift time since it will be the same delay for both the stock and the modified 6MT, which is what the plot compares.
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10-19-2008, 06:23 PM | #56 | |
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You have to take the vehicle speed into account when doing any type of comparison of this nature. That is the key issue here, which is a secondary variable that you cannot mess with directly. The modified car needs to go through the entire speed range as it accelerates. It can't skip the speeds where it has lost the multiplication advantage of the lower gear after shifting and is putting down less torque than the stock car.
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10-19-2008, 06:29 PM | #57 | |
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The DCT is 3.15, going to 3.62 is ~13% reduction. It would make a very noticeable change in the car. There are many variables to take into account, you can go as far as temperature and humidity but I think dealing in the relatively simple terms of the % reduction and the new max speed in each gear is a good start. |
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10-19-2008, 06:54 PM | #58 |
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I agree with lucid - shorter gearing doesn't necessarily mean a car is going to be faster, depends on the nature of what you are doing with the car...
In a drag race, shorter gearing can decrease your quarter mile time, especially if you need an extra gear change. On the other hand, if your gearing is such that you're just about to hit redline in the same gear vs a 1000RPM off redline in the same gear with longer gearing, you'll probably get a faster quarter mile time. The off the line advantage of shorter gearing won't be apparent due to traction issues... |
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10-19-2008, 07:36 PM | #59 |
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OK. I'll run those numbers and post that plot tomorrow.
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10-19-2008, 08:24 PM | #61 |
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I emailed Dan @ diffsonline.com and he said the M5/6 and the E46 M3 rear will not fit the E9x M3. Bummer.
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10-19-2008, 09:16 PM | #62 |
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I see all the back and forth regarding the impact of a change in FDR which is all well and good.... But does anyone know where/how to get a 3.62 for a DCT car?
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10-19-2008, 10:02 PM | #63 | |
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10-19-2008, 10:04 PM | #64 | |
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The question becomes if the OEM ring and pinion can be put in the E92 M3 diff or if it is possible to simply put a stock M5/M6 diff in place. |
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10-19-2008, 10:05 PM | #65 |
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10-20-2008, 01:28 PM | #66 |
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Cool...your graphs illustrate what I was talking about...power isn't affected, just 'shifted'. In this case the shift is 'up', given your plotting MPH to RPM.
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