subframe bushing insert

[e92zero]

Just saw these from ECS. Wondering if any one tried them and what are the opinions/thoughts on these compare to solid bushing/aluminum replacements?

https://www.ecstuning.com/News/BMW_E...018_EP_25647_B

These looks to be easier to installer than solid bushings.

Thanks in advance.

[pbonsalb]

Someone should try them to see if an improvement can be felt. Just lower the subframe a little and slip them in. Might not even need to disconnect those two short brake lines. And about 2/3 the price of new bushings. I would still want to stiffen the diff mounting since that is a more common failure point.

[azndrunk74]

Interesting that 034 (big in Audi/VW) is developing BMW parts. Anyways, subbed for feedback on these.

[inTgr8r]

You still have to drop the subframe to install these.

IMO, if you're in that far, do the job the right way.

[Redd]

Agree. If you're already dropping the subframe just do solid bushings. Zero downsides so solid bushings.

[pbonsalb]

You don’t have to drop the subframe. You can lower it a few inches. Use M12x1.5 threaded rod and M12x1.5 nuts. Buy a meter and cut it in 3 or 4 pieces each several inches longer than the subframe bolts. Replace 3 bolts with the threaded rod and let the subframe hang down a few inches.

You can change bushings this way also but you need rod sections long enough to let the subframe hang down about 5 inches.

The 2 short brake lines only gave a few inches play so you have to disconnect if you want to lower enough to change bushings. For the calipers you can just unbolt the line brackets to add play. Obviously some wiring has to get disconnected as well.

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

You don’t have to drop the subframe. You can lower it a few inches. Use M12x1.5 threaded rod and M12x1.5 nuts. Buy a meter and cut it in 3 or 4 pieces each several inches longer than the subframe bolts. Replace 3 bolts with the threaded rod and let the subframe hang down a few inches.

You can change bushings this way also but you need rod sections long enough to let the subframe hang down about 5 inches.

The 2 short brake lines only gave a few inches play so you have to disconnect if you want to lower enough to change bushings. For the calipers you can just unbolt the line brackets to add play. Obviously some wiring has to get disconnected as well.

JMO, but that's still a lot of work to do for a band-aide solution.

[pbonsalb]

It’s not a lot of work compared to actually removing the subframe.

I was asked to test drive a modded 135i last year because the rear end was unsettled. I could totally feel it as I transitioned on and off power. The owner was thinking about using stiffer M3 bushings. I suggested he go to poly or solid. Instead he bought inserts. I have not driven the car since but the owner said the rear end is much more settled.

I think someone should try these and report on how easy they are to install and what difference is noticed if any. You should realign after lowering the subframe since toe settings could change slightly.

[roastbeef]

thats the stupidest shit i've ever seen. if you have to drop the subframe and press-in new bushings anyways, why not upgrade to zero downside solid bushings?

[pbonsalb]

I would not change the bushings. Just add the inserts. Easy upgrade for $170 and a few hours. Someone should try it.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I would not change the bushings. Just add the inserts. Easy upgrade for $170 and a few hours. Someone should try it.

well whats stopping you broski?

[pbonsalb]

I already changed my subframe and diff bushings to poly. It was a big job even though I just lowered the subframe instead of removing info it. In contrast, just adding these inserts and lowering only a couple of inches would be easy. I think someone should try them — similar inserts made a noticeable difference on a 135i that someone I know has. For $170 and a few hours, it’s in a completely different category of price and labor than a stock or solid or poly bushing job.

[inTgr8r]

If you read the instructions, they recommend installing with new bushings.
These aren't intended to save old bushings from being replaced.

With the age of our cars and mileage on most.....
There probably aren't many out there with bushings in decent shape anyway.

[pbonsalb]

I disagree. Subframe bushings last a long time. People aren’t going poly or solid because the original
ones are worn out. They are doing it to improve handling.

[inTgr8r]

[RokkM3]

when you just lower teh subframe like that, how much of a pita is it to actually get teh stock rubber out and the poly back in?

[pbonsalb]

The hard part is getting the stock rubber out. It’s easy if you have the right tools and harder if you don’t and the limited space you have when just slightly lowering the subframe makes it even harder if you don’t have the right tools. The right tools are a receiver and a driver and a threaded rod and washers and nuts connecting the two, but obviously they have to fit. Installing poly is easy — no tools are required.

Special tool

http://www.hpashop.com/Bushing-Tool-...g-tool-kit.htm

https://www.amazon.com/Rear-Suspensi.../dp/B00VONCS3O

You can cobble something together on your own if you are creative.

[wyatth]

034 bushing/mount inserts are very popular in the VW/Audi world.
If these are simpler to install, it could be a great upgrade for lower-mileage street cars. For example, I'd like solid bushings but cannot justify the labor expense until more hardware needs to be replaced "while in there."
If high miles (worn OE bushings) or if install is nearly the same, then these don't seem to have much advantage ...
Very curious to hear about the install ... Anybody try these yet?

*While ECS says the subframe needs to be dropped, inserts are a common mod for non-M subframes and those guys say inserts are a lot easier than a bushing swap. I would imagine that is equally true for an M, just "news" to us because inserts are new/not common for the M cars.

[BayE30]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

The hard part is getting the stock rubber out. It’s easy if you have the right tools and harder if you don’t and the limited space you have when just slightly lowering the subframe makes it even harder if you don’t have the right tools. The right tools are a receiver and a driver and a threaded rod and washers and nuts connecting the two, but obviously they have to fit. Installing poly is easy — no tools are required.

Special tool

http://www.hpashop.com/Bushing-Tool-...g-tool-kit.htm

https://www.amazon.com/Rear-Suspensi.../dp/B00VONCS3O

You can cobble something together on your own if you are creative.

https://www.amazon.com/Koch-Tools-KT...DTVFDK16X1S3GV

seems this is same tool on amazon for half the price of the one posted.

[roastbeef]

anyone do it yet? video of a moving subframe doesn't lie.

[wyatth]

I just want to know if the install is significantly easier than a full bushing swap. If so, I would do this to a non-track, low-mile car for sure. If comparable labor, then zero point to this.

[pbonsalb]

Way easier to not press in and out bushings. Makes the most sense if not dropping SF but just lowering a bit. Might not even need to lower but I’d have to see the inserts and how they go in. The front bushings goin from the top on the M3 unlike on the regular E90.