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      07-08-2018, 09:23 AM   #45
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And the other 600,000 factories that have closed since the 1970's with lousy political management from US politicians?

Those were real towns and real people too.
Oh absolutely, and seeing another go under is tragedy. Especially with an industry that isn’t doomed to fail like coal towns were.
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      07-08-2018, 09:23 AM   #46
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Doesn't make sense. Then they have to pay a 25% tax on all exports.
errr... Sell the 3-Series in the US? Which until late has been the largest seller of the BMW line in the US..

And business is about numbers. Ask Wall Street.
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      07-08-2018, 09:23 AM   #47
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Why recent posts are all turning political : I liked coming here just for the beemers keep politics outside
This.

PS I come here for Bimmers too.
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      07-08-2018, 09:24 AM   #48
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errr... Sell the 3-Series in the US? Which until late has been the largest seller of the BMW line in the US..

And business is about numbers. Ask Wall Street.
Remember the US is moving to the SAV SUV model overwhelmingly across the board though, Ford is discontinuing most sedans here for that reason.
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      07-08-2018, 09:24 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Questofthetune View Post
Oh absolutely, and seeing another go under is tragedy. Especially with an industry that isn’t doomed to fail like coal towns were.
So you start now caring? Got it.
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      07-08-2018, 09:24 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timujin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by psuibmw View Post
Why recent posts are all turning political : I liked coming here just for the beemers keep politics outside
This.
Because it's affecting BMW, we need to be updated, and we can't be oblivious to our reality.
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      07-08-2018, 09:26 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Questofthetune View Post
Remember the US is moving to the SAV SUV model overwhelmingly across the board though, Ford is discontinuing most sedans here for that reason.
Well Ford recently kinda walked that statement back....
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      07-08-2018, 09:27 AM   #52
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So you start now caring? Got it.
Well considering I wasn’t old enough to vote when the mid west and appalachians started going under, there wasn’t much i could care or do about it. Now that I can and have a voice politically as evreyone does from the age of 18 and onward, yes I care.

Is there something wrong with seeing an issue you didn’t know in depth, researching it, and beginning to be concerned when you learn more about it?
Why is that wrong?
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      07-08-2018, 09:32 AM   #53
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Well Ford recently kinda walked that statement back....
I mean the numbers don’t lie, Americans are turning more to that vehicle type than any other. Point is all of this wondering about alternatives and if they will hurt or if they won’t wasnt caused by a shifting market or social changes. It was caused artificially by wreckless and fast trade rhetoric. Do I think we can nagotiate a better position? Absolutely. Do I think tweeting about it and making snap decisions about it on the fly that affect hundreds of millions is a good thing to do? Course not.
We’re one country out of many in the world and we consume disproportionate more than most. We don’t have the “take my ball and go home” luxury anymore. Again this could somehow level out and work, and I’ll freely admit he called thier bluff. But I don’t think it will.
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      07-08-2018, 10:02 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricfutures View Post
Cliff notes version: Increased pricing will most likely lead to lower demand. Lower demand = less production = less workers. Net/net this is a loss for BMW and US, specifically the people employed in these US plants.
Your assumptions and the conclusions you base on those assumptions are not supported by facts.

According to the article, US Spartanburg plant exported 100k cars to China last year. That’s not even a drop in a bucket for the Chinese market. China doubles and in some cases triples the price of imported BMW cars by the time various Chinese taxes are paid. And yet demand is outstripping supply. With X7 going on line at Spartanburg shortly, US manufacturing capacity is constrained. In fact, they’re hiring and expanding work force in SC.

Therefore, Chinese consumers will pay more, BMW will adjust their pricing models and perhaps even win with new adjusted prices, and US is collecting 25% tariffs on imported aluminum.

Sounds like a win win for US.
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      07-08-2018, 10:19 AM   #55
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Others need to play fair on trade and these issues will not be a concern.
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      07-08-2018, 10:56 AM   #56
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      07-08-2018, 11:04 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questofthetune View Post
Well considering I wasn’t old enough to vote when the mid west and appalachians started going under, there wasn’t much i could care or do about it. Now that I can and have a voice politically as evreyone does from the age of 18 and onward, yes I care.

Is there something wrong with seeing an issue you didn’t know in depth, researching it, and beginning to be concerned when you learn more about it?
Why is that wrong?
It's not wrong, and kudos for caring. My point is that the degradation of the manufacturing class in the US has been going on for decades, not just now and Sparanburg is not the first example. If anything, the current Administration realizes that there is a social impact and a national security concern to losing the economic manufacturing base. Political opponents have just made the current EPA Administrator leave office, where he was making great progress on reversing ages of regulation that depresses economic and job growth. The last thing those political opponents care about is the manufacturing class and they haven't for decades (all the while collecting Union dues...). It's a very deep, long and complex subject to get familiar with.

The last Administration was of the opinion that "those jobs are gone and never coming back." However there is a more important reason to believe otherwise, which is a show of actual Leadership.
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      07-08-2018, 11:05 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psuibmw View Post
Why recent posts are all turning political : I liked coming here just for the beemers keep politics outside
I also wish we could. But I'm afraid this is just a prelude to changes nobody wants.
What if BMW decides to build new X production facilities for chinese market outside of the US, like Harley is doing it now? I mean we love the Harleys here, it's crazy to see what's going on with that brand that reflects US tradition like no other to us.
So what if BMW goes the same way, what will be most likely the case if the situation stays or escalates further?
Right, US production will become more expensive due to lower numbers. In addition to the raised import costs for materials and components this could result in a reduced and much more expensive model lineup for the US market.

And yes, all that could remain for you then, could be nice pictures of happy european and chinese Bimmer owners with their latest gear and specs you'll no longer get in the US. Cool...
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      07-08-2018, 11:08 AM   #59
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Quote:
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I also wish we could. But I'm afraid this is just a prelude to changes nobody wants.
What if BMW decides to build new X production facilities for chinese market outside of the US, like Harley is doing it now? I mean we love the Harleys here, it's crazy to see what's going on with that brand that reflects US tradition like no other to us.
So what if BMW goes the same way, what will be most likely the case if the situation stays or escalates further?
Right, US production will become more expensive due to lower numbers. In addition to the raised import costs for materials and components this could result in a reduced and much more expensive model lineup for the US market.

And yes, all that could remain for you then, could be nice pictures of happy european and chinese Bimmer owners with their latest gear and specs you'll no longer get in the US. Cool...
If my aunt Selma had a pair...she’d be my uncle Steve...
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      07-08-2018, 11:15 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
I also wish we could. But I'm afraid this is just a prelude to changes nobody wants.
What if BMW decides to build new X production facilities for chinese market outside of the US, like Harley is doing it now? I mean we love the Harleys here, it's crazy to see what's going on with that brand that reflects US tradition like no other to us.
So what if BMW goes the same way, what will be most likely the case if the situation stays or escalates further?
Right, US production will become more expensive due to lower numbers. In addition to the raised import costs for materials and components this could result in a reduced and much more expensive model lineup for the US market.

And yes, all that could remain for you then, could be nice pictures of happy european and chinese Bimmer owners with their latest gear and specs you'll no longer get in the US. Cool...
Harley closed its Kansas factory well a head of any EU trade tariff discussions/threats. Like I said earlier, Harley was bailed out by the Reagan Administration in the early 1980's. The US economy sucked for the last 8 years, which is why Harley had to consolidate production facilities.
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      07-09-2018, 12:44 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questofthetune View Post
I mean the numbers don’t lie, Americans are turning more to that vehicle type than any other. Point is all of this wondering about alternatives and if they will hurt or if they won’t wasnt caused by a shifting market or social changes. It was caused artificially by wreckless and fast trade rhetoric. Do I think we can nagotiate a better position? Absolutely. Do I think tweeting about it and making snap decisions about it on the fly that affect hundreds of millions is a good thing to do? Course not.
We’re one country out of many in the world and we consume disproportionate more than most. We don’t have the “take my ball and go home” luxury anymore. Again this could somehow level out and work, and I’ll freely admit he called thier bluff. But I don’t think it will.
China is transitioning to SUVs too, if you visited recently, that is a trend pretty globally except Japan.

Gotta appreciate the Chinese strategy, EVERY SINGLE TARGETED Tariff is to attack the Trump base - Soy Beans from Northeast, Corn in the middle Americas, Cars made in states that were Red, Hazelnuts and Pecans produced in southern states.

Wait and see and Trump will be hurt really bad, if not in the Mid term 2018, by 2020, he will be done along with many seats of the GOP - mark my words.
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      07-09-2018, 02:55 PM   #62
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More Exports than Ever

The worst thing about this situation is that China will continue on paying intermediate brokers and directly export Those X models from Canada for cheaper cost.

We were already having big issues In Dealerships about those exports...I gues It'll be even worst in the next futur!
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      07-10-2018, 06:28 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jondaman View Post
China is transitioning to SUVs too, if you visited recently, that is a trend pretty globally except Japan.

Gotta appreciate the Chinese strategy, EVERY SINGLE TARGETED Tariff is to attack the Trump base - Soy Beans from Northeast, Corn in the middle Americas, Cars made in states that were Red, Hazelnuts and Pecans produced in southern states.

Wait and see and Trump will be hurt really bad, if not in the Mid term 2018, by 2020, he will be done along with many seats of the GOP - mark my words.
So marked.

GOP replaced by.... a bunch of socialists? Err... sorry, Democratic Socialist Party members? Good luck with that. LOL

Impeach 45!, Impeach 45!!, Impeach 45!!!

Abolish ICE! Abolish ICE!!!!

LOL
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      07-11-2018, 10:02 PM   #64
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Update to this conversation in the article below:

"BMW said Monday that it would move production for some of its SUVs out of the U.S. as a result of new tariffs placed on the vehicles, according to The Post and Courier in South Carolina."

"The company also said that it will raise prices for U.S.-produced SUVs sold in China because it is "not in a position to completely absorb the tariff increases" after China slapped a 40 percent tariff on U.S. car imports, according to the newspaper. The action was in response to tariffs on Chinese goods imposed by President Trump."

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/in...in-response-to
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      07-17-2018, 03:47 PM   #65
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The only way BMW or the US loses is if the Chinese car buyer can't afford the "tariffed" BMW and decides to buy the Chinese "junk" instead.

And even then, it's the Chinese buyer who lost out. Their market will still desire the premium BMW brand. So, the tariff will only backfire on their dumb ass.

Wake up America! We are the largest economy. Whether you like it or not and it's about time we start putting our elbows out and stop getting the shit end of the deal all the time.
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      07-18-2018, 12:17 AM   #66
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I came from china. Truth being told, it wont really affecting anything. Because most cars bmw sell in china are already domestically built by 华晨宝马, a joint venture of bmw with a local manufactur group. Only certain models (e.g. M cars or x5, x6) are imported. But people who buy them willing to pay premium peice anyway. And the tariff on luxury imported cars (the tariff is specially high on luxury cars, much lower on casual cars) to China is already sky high. Really really high. Adding up with the “engine displacement tax”, it was already somewhere like 100% before this change.

Probabaly bmw wont even sell those cars in china in future. Because chinese government is pushing a realy absurd emmision regulation. The regulation require the average emission of all vehecles a company sell in china to below a number. I cannot recall the exact number, but it is ludicrously low and unrealistic. The only possible way to meet it is kinda having half of the models fully electrical (which is the intention of this regulation, to push the electic car). Many companies are already withdrawing their higher emission, especially sport oriented models from china market. There is a way to sort of get around it with parallel import, or grey market. But thats another topic to dicuss. Or just pay the fine, which is what porsche doing. Porsche paying fine to Chinese government, but their margin of profit can make up their lost.

Just some insights and information for the discussion.

Last edited by Cyanfall; 07-18-2018 at 11:00 AM.
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