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[LarThaL]

Just as an example, the HRE P43SC is arguably one of the finest wheels available on the market today. Gorgeous design, flawless forged construction, and finished to perfection.



By comparison, the APEX EC7 is just as nice from a design standpoint. It is not quite as strong, and the finish isn't quite as "diamond-like". It isn't quite as light in a hypothetical similar size (the HRE doesn't come in 18" and the Apex doesn't come in 19") So, overall, it isn't quite as good, but it isn't a crap wheel either. They are built very strong, have a durable finish, and like the HRE's will fit perfectly with no spacers, rings, rubbing.



Now, it is reasonable to think the the HRE should cost more than the Apex by a decent amount. That's okay, and expected.

But how much more?

The cost of the HRE is 5-6 times the cost of the Apex wheel.

Or think of it this way...you can buy 4 Apex wheels and a spare for less than the cost of one HRE wheel.

Is the cost of the HRE wheel justified in comparison to what you get with the Apex?

Discuss.

[Legion5]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Just as an example, the HRE P43SC is arguably one of the finest wheels available on the market today. Gorgeous design, flawless forged construction, and finished to perfection.



By comparison, the APEX EC7 is just a nice from a design standpoint. It is not quite as strong, and the finish isn't quite as "diamond-like". It isn't quite as light in a hypothetical similar size (the HRE doesn't come in 18" and the Apex doesn't come in 19") So, overall, it isn't quite as good, but it isn't a crap wheel either. They are built very strong, have a durable finish, and like the HRE's will fit perfectly with no spacers, rings, rubbing.



Now, it is reasonable to think the the HRE should cost more than the Apex by a decent amount. That's okay, and expected.

But how much more?

The cost of the HRE is 5-6 times the cost of the Apex wheel.

Or think of it this way...you can buy 4 Apex wheels and a spare for less than the cost of one HRE wheel.

Is the cost of the HRE wheel justified in comparison to what you get with the Apex?

Discuss.

You have to understand HRE's unique position in the market. They are a company that custom manufacturs it's wheels, on site to a customers specifications, in any offset and width you want for no markup, in the USA, offer the best customer service and will make custom colored wheels for almost no markup, and are built to the highest standards.

On the other hand you have cheap wheels (not nessesarily the ones you posted but in that price class), made of average materials, which offer no customization, little service (wait times of 4 months with no reason are not uncommon from these sorts of manucafturers in my experience), and offer no custom colors.

HRE is one of the only wheel companies where you can call them up and talk to the actual guy who is going to machining your actual wheels and tell him exactly what you want him to do with your specific set and ask him to make alterations to his technique, specify the exact finish in a million colors, and you can even ship them your own powders to use, then specify the exact offset, width and size to practically any dimensions.

Want 23mm offset? No problem. Want 24mm? no problem, want 25mm? no problem.

Want Lime green with purple accents? No problem.

Want to ship them the lime green powder you used to powder coat your brakes and exhaust so your wheels are a perfect match? No problem.

Want them to make a wheel that's half brushed and half machined? No problem.

The answer to those questions from a low end manufacturer would be "absolutaly not" if you're wondering.

Then after all that you'll have a product made out of the highest quality materials in and out, in a week and dropped off at your door at the end of the month.

The products you're comparing are polar opposites of each other. The fact that HRE makes it's products the way it does for ONLY 5 times as much as the lowest end manufacturers is pretty decent.

In the end though what really matters I think is the design of the wheel, the extra durability and quality are just icing on the cake as long as those are within reason with a low end manufacturer. HRE wheels simply look amazing, and that's because they're a company that can spare no expense and create the best product, not a cheap imitator that makes a half hearted atempt. If you know anything about their development techniques they have no issues creating and throwing away perfectly good designs and refining them to the point of total absurdity. They will throw away 60 sets of wheels while designing the bevel on a spoke one of their prototypes. Not while desgining the wheel, just one bevel on one small part of the wheel. The lowest common denominator wheel manufacturers will create a design, say it's good enough and rush it into production even if the lines aren't remotely right with zero refinement, and that's how most wheel manufacturers do it, most don't care about refinement. HRE throws away 20 prototypes just deciding what size logo should be machined into the spokes of their wheel.

On top of that HRE wheels aren't all that expensive in the long run, they retain 70% of their resale value in my experience as long as you keep them in good condition. That means they end up costing you just $800 more over a typical 4 year ownership than a standard wheel from Apex.

Don't get me wrong there are plenty of alternatives to HRE that may offer more value for money and sometimes they aren't the best choice for a particular car, but I've worked with HRE in the past and they're a fantastic company that's perfectly justified in charging what they do and aren't as expensive as they seem in the long run.

Hope that answers your question.

[slicer]

HRE does make an 18" forged monoblock wheel....

[SamS]

Originally Posted by LarThaL

Or think of it this way...you can buy 4 Apex wheels and a spare for less than the cost of one HRE wheel.

Can you post the MSRP of each of the wheels you pictured? I know you said "4X" the price, but I don't know what the reference points are.

One thing to keep in mind is that manufacturing costs are probably ~25% of the retail price. So if there's a wheel selling for $400, it probably has <$100 worth of parts/material/labor in it. Seems a bit risky that something so cheap is bolted onto a $70K automobile, and spins thousands of times per hour.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by SamS

Can you post the MSRP of each of the wheels you pictured? I know you said "4X" the price, but I don't know what the reference points are.

One thing to keep in mind is that manufacturing costs are probably ~25% of the retail price. So if there's a wheel selling for $400, it probably has <$100 worth of parts/material/labor in it. Seems a bit risky that something so cheap is bolted onto a $70K automobile, and spins thousands of times per hour.

Conventional wisdom would lead you to think that, however, the APEX wheels have a strong reputation on the track. They are very well respected as an extremely durable wheel and are built specifically in BMW fitments. Info on them is all over this website.

I have owned HRE's myself in the past. They are absolutely incredible in all regards. That is a fact. However, along with companies like Vorsteiner, Morr, etc, etc, it just got me thinking. Cost isn't an issue for me, but value will always be important.

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by slicer

HRE does make an 18" forged monoblock wheel....

I know, but I don't care for the design. Really looking for that deep concave look, like the OEM ZCP wheels, or like the P40's, and alike. Would I buy an HRE P40SC in 18"......absolutely.

It is really the lack of nice premium wheel designs in an 18" size that got me thinking about this topic in the first place, but I am thinking about it nonetheless.

[Nine]

I look wheels like they are like a pair of shoes, a tie or even a watch. Certainly there is an element of craftsmanship, quality, durability and performance. What is the difference between a Cole Haan shoe and an Allan Edmonds or Feragamo dress shoe, well it depends on your needs and who you are asking.

Would you rather dive wtih a G-Shock or dive with a Rolex. Chances are you aren't a professional driver, or a professional diver, therefore, anyway you look at it, it's a bling item, like the example above, rarely are you going to be using a race geared wheel on the public roads or a full on show wheel on your DD. Though, I have seen people with professional quick release wheel hubs on a daily driver... To close the look, professional diver dive with either G-shock or rolex, but often times they have a complex dive instrument as their true tool.

[FruitCake]

just get BBS or Volk
better wheel for value than HRE or APEX

[TeRRoRiFiC35]

Custom forged does not always mean better, just look at the situation I have with DPE or any of the various custom companies. A majority of the one's mainly from Florida (excluding CCW) have all had problem with custom service and quality i.e. 360forged. HRE obviously has a good track record and stay true to their build times so you shouldn't worry about that. Importing wheels from Japan can take anywhere from 3-6 months depending on the company and if their US affiliate has them in stock in the US. Pretty much any wheel that has been outsourced to China is complete garbage; same goes for the Phillipines (Rota is made here). Weight also plays a deal in choices IMO because they can throw off the speedometer, decrease gas mileage, etc etc.

[slicer]

Originally Posted by FruitCake

just get BBS or Volk
better wheel for value than HRE or APEX

I ended up buying Volk wheels for my last two sets for this very reason. Great value, Quality Forging, and perfect size/offset IMO. Not to mention, they seem to hold their value well. I am not in the manufacturing industry but my understanding is that Japan is the best in the world at forging metal. Both BBS and Volk forged wheels are made in Japan... I'm told that only BBS's forged racing wheels are still made in Germany. Not sure about BBS cast wheels...

[tlp]

HRE is a boutique wheel with boutique pricing to boot.

[tibra1]

Thats the conundrum isnt it? The huge disparity in cost of different wheels with fairly similar quality....Im sure branding is a huge factor

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by tlp

HRE is a boutique wheel with boutique pricing to boot.

It is a boutique wheel with the price to match but based on my experience, they also provide boutique like service which is unmatched by most other companies.

[signes]

Is it "justified"? Is what any company charges for its products or services justified? HRE charges what the market will bear just like every other rational profit-maximizing company. Sounds like you like the wheels (P43SC) but can't find a cheaper alternative with the same characteristics (quality, design, size, etc.) If there was, maybe HRE would have to drop their prices. They've built up a brand following that is willing to pay a premium for them.

[Porschefile]

Not as much as most people pay. I won't buy HRE's unless I get to a point where money doesn't matter, because they don't do anything different than other quality wheels like OZ etc. for 3-4x more money. I like forgestar personally for the price. CF10's or F14's.

I'll concede that there are crappy wheels to avoid, and $500 a set specials probably won't end well on a $60k car.

Oh and if I wanted to step up $ a bit, the Volk TE37's are AWESOME and still half the cost of HRE and the new BBS stuff.

[808MGuy]

Originally Posted by Porschefile

Not as much as most people pay. I won't buy HRE's unless I get to a point where money doesn't matter, because they don't do anything different than other quality wheels like OZ etc. for 3-4x more money. I like forgestar personally for the price. CF10's or F14's.

I'll concede that there are crappy wheels to avoid, and $500 a set specials probably won't end well on a $60k car.

Oh and if I wanted to step up $ a bit, the Volk TE37's are AWESOME and still half the cost of HRE and the new BBS stuff.

You are comparing low pressure cast wheels and custom forged wheels. Not really an apples to apples comparison. OZ makes decent stuff but I wouldn't go as far to say its the same quality as a high quality forged wheel. Volk is a different story. They make high quality forged wheels but don't do custom configurations so they can keep costs down by running larger volumes of the same wheels. BBS is similar in that they have certain configurations available and do not deviate from that.

[Denk]

Depends on what you like and are willing to pay. I wanted a wheel that had a design and finish I'd love and it had to be forged. I'd been lusting for the HRE P43 for awhile, it met my all of my criteria and when HRE came out with the P43SC I just couldn't resist. I feel I got my money's worth, absolutely! Follow your gut...if you can afford it.

[Brosef]

the law of diminishing returns exists almost everywhere in this world. my HRE's were some of the best money I've spent. I don't think I'll ever get sick of them.

[PINHEAD]

please..do not put HRE and BBS/Volk in the same league...
they are not.... HRE is good but not that good.
one is a custom wheel brand that looks nice, the other ones actually has REAL motorsport backing and tradition as well as decades of REPUTATION, and they are in FORMULA 1.

[duke10]

Why buy an M3 when you can buy the new Boss 302 which has the same perf at half the price? You're not comparing apple to apple, the finishes of HRE wheels are much more unique and their design are among the best if not the best looking on the market. You can't just compare HRE to APEX!

[LarThaL]

Originally Posted by duke10

Why buy an M3 when you can buy the new Boss 302 which has the same perf at half the price? You're not comparing apple to apple, the finishes of HRE wheels are much more unique and their design are among the best if not the best looking on the market. You can't just compare HRE to APEX!

I am not comparing HRE to APEX. HRE is a superior product in every way. I absolutely love their wheels and have owned them in the past. I am asking whether it is worth $1500 compared to what you get in a $300 APEX wheel.

[SirSpeedy]

Only the individual consumer can determine if HRE is worth its cost. Economics and game thoery suggest markets are often irrational as it pertains to value and costs.