Very close to making a deal...now I have a few questions

Juano11 · 10-18-2008, 03:28 PM

Greetings to all,

My local dealer has made me what I consider to be a very good offer on an ordered 09 DCT coupe. Once things are finalized, I'll be back to tell you about it. But, I don't want to be on here spreading misinformation before the deal is final. I will say that it is the best deal that I have seen on here (with the exception of the one guy who got his for invoice).

However, this is my first new car purchase so I have a few questions about what I can expect when it comes time to signing the papers. So far all of my correspondence with the dealer has been by e-mail. Right now they have offered me X dollars over invoice. I (and Edmunds.com) calculate the invoice price on my M3 at $66,585. This invoice price includes the gas guzzler tax and destination charge.

What additional fees can I expect to be added on when it comes time to sign the papers? For example, at this point there has been no mention of a MACO or Training fee. Are there any other fees that dealers typically add on? How much are these fees (MACO, Training, Any others), typically? Is it reasonable to refuse these fees? I recognize that virtually everything in this deal is negotiable, but I'm not really a haggler and I don't want to be unreasonable.

Additionally, are there any "extras" that I could ask for that might make me feel better about having these few extra hundred dollars squeezed out of me? Lets say, for example, that they will not or cannot waive the MACO fee, can I request that they throw in some floor mats or something else?

To be honest, these fees are unlikely to make me walk away from this deal. I'm simply looking to make a fair deal that both parties are happy with.

Many Thanks in advance

Ronin13 · 10-18-2008, 04:02 PM

Maco and training fees appear to be based on market. There are a few threads out there to search for. No fees required at my dealer. Floor mats are a common throw in. There are also some threads on typical 'freebies'.

King Tut · 10-18-2008, 08:15 PM

With all these fees and various invoice pricing I don't understand why people still choose to negotiate off of invoice instead of MSRP. MSRP is not debateable. It is on the sticker while invoice means different things to different people. Just look at MSRP and take off how much you want to get off of it. Don't even bother messing with inovice.

Seth_Horwitz · 10-18-2008, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tut

With all these fees and various invoice pricing I don't understand why people still choose to negotiate off of invoice instead of MSRP. MSRP is not debateable. It is on the sticker while invoice means different things to different people. Just look at MSRP and take off how much you want to get off of it. Don't even bother messing with inovice.

FYI, I have usually seen MACO, Training, Inventory, and most of the other fees built in to the MSRP, as well. (My guess is that the dealer decides what they want to show up on the invoice and window sticker, and what not to.) Negotiating off of either invoice or MSRP is the same, as long as you know what fees they are including in each number.

AZ-BMW · 10-18-2008, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seth_Horwitz

FYI, I have usually seen MACO, Training, Inventory, and most of the other fees built in to the MSRP, as well. (My guess is that the dealer decides what they want to show up on the invoice and window sticker, and what not to.) Negotiating off of either invoice or MSRP is the same, as long as you know what fees they are including in each number.

On an Invoice deal the MACO and Training Fee are added to the dealer's invoice cost, while for MSRP they are already buried in the price, hence you don't see them itemized on the window sticker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Tut

With all these fees and various invoice pricing I don't understand why people still choose to negotiate off of invoice instead of MSRP. MSRP is not debateable. It is on the sticker while invoice means different things to different people. Just look at MSRP and take off how much you want to get off of it. Don't even bother messing with inovice.

Always, Always, Always negotiate from Invoice up, not MSRP down

The Invoice info is available in this forum or at http://www.edmunds.com and it doesn't include the dealer junk fees that tend to show up on the MSRP stickers

HotLap · 10-19-2008, 04:46 AM

Quote:

AZ
Always, Always, Always negotiate from Invoice up, not MSRP down

The Invoice info is available in this forum or at http://www.edmunds.com and it doesn't include the dealer junk fees that tend to show up on the MSRP stickers

DITTO, DITTO, DITTO always negotiate from invoice up (especially in today's market). You can also go to www.kellybluebook.com and build the exact car you are looking at and see both MSRP and Invoice on the car and all the options/packages. You shouldn't be paying more than $500 over invoice in today's market (and perhaps even lower)

Juano11 · 10-19-2008, 09:00 AM

So,

Any advice about what fees I can expect to see pop up? Any clarifiaction as to what they actually are?

aggie57 · 10-19-2008, 04:02 PM

While I'm a long way from you guys the basic principle if I'm paying cash for a car is to negotiate around "what am I going to write the check for?". Down here we call that the "on-the-road" price.

Obviously if it's a lease / HP or whatever the question is different but so long as you're clear on what the objective is no drama.

Juano11 · 10-19-2008, 04:23 PM

So, I'm walking in tomorrow with an e-mail offer of $750 over invoice.

Any advice about what fees I can expect to see pop up? Any clarification as to what they actually are and which ones I should expect to be able to negotiate?

10-18-2008, 03:28 PM	#1
Juano11 Private First Class 9 Rep 157 Posts Drives: 09 M3 DCT Coupe Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Louisville, KY iTrader: (0)	Very close to making a deal...now I have a few questions Greetings to all, My local dealer has made me what I consider to be a very good offer on an ordered 09 DCT coupe. Once things are finalized, I'll be back to tell you about it. But, I don't want to be on here spreading misinformation before the deal is final. I will say that it is the best deal that I have seen on here (with the exception of the one guy who got his for invoice). However, this is my first new car purchase so I have a few questions about what I can expect when it comes time to signing the papers. So far all of my correspondence with the dealer has been by e-mail. Right now they have offered me X dollars over invoice. I (and Edmunds.com) calculate the invoice price on my M3 at $66,585. This invoice price includes the gas guzzler tax and destination charge. What additional fees can I expect to be added on when it comes time to sign the papers? For example, at this point there has been no mention of a MACO or Training fee. Are there any other fees that dealers typically add on? How much are these fees (MACO, Training, Any others), typically? Is it reasonable to refuse these fees? I recognize that virtually everything in this deal is negotiable, but I'm not really a haggler and I don't want to be unreasonable. Additionally, are there any "extras" that I could ask for that might make me feel better about having these few extra hundred dollars squeezed out of me? Lets say, for example, that they will not or cannot waive the MACO fee, can I request that they throw in some floor mats or something else? To be honest, these fees are unlikely to make me walk away from this deal. I'm simply looking to make a fair deal that both parties are happy with. Many Thanks in advance Last edited by Juano11; 10-18-2008 at 03:31 PM.. Reason: Adding instant e-mail notification
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10-18-2008, 04:02 PM	#2
Ronin13 First Lieutenant 21 Rep 362 Posts Drives: E92 M3, RRS Supercharged, S2K Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: STL, MO iTrader: (0)	Maco and training fees appear to be based on market. There are a few threads out there to search for. No fees required at my dealer. Floor mats are a common throw in. There are also some threads on typical 'freebies'.
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10-18-2008, 08:15 PM	#3
King Tut NASA SpecE30 Racer 82 Rep 1,307 Posts Drives: 2006 Honda S2000 TT3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Gulf Breeze, FL iTrader: (2)	With all these fees and various invoice pricing I don't understand why people still choose to negotiate off of invoice instead of MSRP. MSRP is not debateable. It is on the sticker while invoice means different things to different people. Just look at MSRP and take off how much you want to get off of it. Don't even bother messing with inovice. __________________ King Tut 2012 BMW M3 Individual: Sold lsb.ridedomain.com 1987 BMW 325is SpecE30: spece30.ridedomain.com 2009 BMW M3 Coupe: Sold e92.ridedomain.com
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10-19-2008, 09:00 AM	#7
Juano11 Private First Class 9 Rep 157 Posts Drives: 09 M3 DCT Coupe Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Louisville, KY iTrader: (0)	So, Any advice about what fees I can expect to see pop up? Any clarifiaction as to what they actually are?
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10-19-2008, 04:02 PM	#8
aggie57 First Lieutenant 19 Rep 354 Posts Drives: 2.0d X3, 2009 997 Carrera S Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia iTrader: (0)	While I'm a long way from you guys the basic principle if I'm paying cash for a car is to negotiate around "what am I going to write the check for?". Down here we call that the "on-the-road" price. Obviously if it's a lease / HP or whatever the question is different but so long as you're clear on what the objective is no drama.
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10-19-2008, 04:23 PM	#9
Juano11 Private First Class 9 Rep 157 Posts Drives: 09 M3 DCT Coupe Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Louisville, KY iTrader: (0)	So, I'm walking in tomorrow with an e-mail offer of $750 over invoice. Any advice about what fees I can expect to see pop up? Any clarification as to what they actually are and which ones I should expect to be able to negotiate?
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