Ferodo ds2500 pad deposits

[StogyBear]

Hey guys, I'm dealing with a strange issue. I daily and track my car a few times a year. I got the ds2500 pads after reading basically every post on this site and took the car to laguna seca (hard on brakes).

I drove the car about 8/10 and when leaving the track, I could hear the brakes juddering and squealing when coming to a stop. I checked and realized I had streaks of uneven pad deposits.

I took the brakes apart, ground the top layer of the rotor off with a hone tool, and reinstalled/greased everything up.

The squeal was instantly gone but juddering was improved by only like 30%. I did a few (6-7) hard 90-50mph stops and the brakes improved like 90%. I assumed I had successfully bedded the pads but I got home and saw uneven deposits on the rotors again!!

Is this the norm with these pads? Did I cook em while bedding? I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong here. When I had first installed them, without even bedding them they drove perfectly fine.

Photos below of the original deposits, refinishing rotors, and new deposits.

[//steve\\]

I have these same pads on my full AP/Essex setup and have some braking vibration as well.

I haven't gone out to properly try to re-bed the pads yet either which I should do but curious.

[dparm]

Some pads require bedding twice, depending on the state of the rotor. What pads did you run on these rotors before?

[StogyBear]

Originally Posted by dparm

Some pads require bedding twice, depending on the state of the rotor. What pads did you run on these rotors before?

Interesting. So following the same procedure twice? I wonder if regular street driving would eventually even it all out.

I had the Hawk HPS before this and hated it. Awful bite and modulation both on the street and track.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by StogyBear

Interesting. So following the same procedure twice? I wonder if regular street driving would eventually even it all out.

I had the Hawk HPS before this and hated it. Awful bite and modulation both on the street and track.

Yes, do the bed-in procedure and then a day later, do it again. If you are not getting the blue mirror-like finish consistently across the rotor face, they're not fully bedded.

It can take two cycles if you switched compounds or had a lot of existing build-up from the previous pads. Have you ever used a Flex Hone tool?

[StogyBear]

Originally Posted by dparm

Yes, do the bed-in procedure and then a day later, do it again. If you are not getting the blue mirror-like finish consistently across the rotor face, they're not fully bedded.

It can take two cycles if you switched compounds or had a lot of existing build-up from the previous pads. Have you ever used a Flex Hone tool?

Yep I used the flex hone and cleared the rotors completely (front and back). That's why I'm puzzled.

[dparm]

How did you bed them in?

https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/i...Path=6446_6443

[roastbeef]

this might be more of a rotor problem rather than a pad problem. i've never used a flex hone on rotors. i suspect there just isn't a good way of knowing you aren't taking off too much material and actually creating an uneven rotor surface. the flex hone method is talked about from time to time, but i'm not sure if i've read that anyone swears by it. i'm a little skeptical.

on the subject of checking rotors, it looks like you are taking the rotors off, but just double check the inside of the rotor faces as they typically get hotter. an instructor once told me that the inside rotor face on the passenger side takes quite a beating at laguna due to the turn 2 braking zone, then the long, slow, left turn shielding that specific rotor face from significant airflow. in my experience, i found this to be true as just eyeballing the pads at the end of the day, the inside passenger pad is significantly more worn.
just give the inside rotor faces a closer look.

[StogyBear]

Originally Posted by dparm

How did you bed them in?

https://www.zeckhausen.com/catalog/i...Path=6446_6443

I must have done it more aggressively than it asks for. I did 90-60 stops rather than 60-30.. 🤦*♂️

[StogyBear]

Ended up bedding them again, this time taking my time to warm up the rotors and cool them down by driving about a mile without touching them. Juddering is pretty much all gone at this point, but now my front right squeals at low speeds. Is it common for these pads to squeal?

The rotors look a bit better now, but still have some deposits. Honestly, I'm not sure why these got such great reviews on here. They perform relatively well, but melt onto the rotors way too easily. Drilled rotors also are probably not ideal. As you can see, there are streaks starting from the drilled holes.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by StogyBear

Ended up bedding them again, this time taking my time to warm up the rotors and cool them down by driving about a mile without touching them. Juddering is pretty much all gone at this point, but now my front right squeals at low speeds. Is it common for these pads to squeal?

The rotors look a bit better now, but still have some deposits. Honestly, I'm not sure why these got such great reviews on here. They perform relatively well, but melt onto the rotors way too easily. Drilled rotors also are probably not ideal. As you can see, there are streaks starting from the drilled holes.

1. They can squeal slightly, it will improve as they bed in. This is the price you pay for track capability.

2. Double-edged sword with the holes.They will help the pads bite better, but also can result in streaking. My guess on your streaking is that you're just cooking those pads. They are not a true track pad but are trackable in the sense they don't fall off the cliff when they get too hot like an HPS.

It sounds like you are maxing out these pads due to insufficient cooling. Consider something more track-focused like a Hawk DTC-60/70 for your next set. FWIW I used the DS2500s on a Stoptech kit and they were fine, but those have massively better rotor and caliper cooling. If I were running a very sticky tire, I would have gone for the Hawks.

[Ervin87]

It is best to have a dedicated set of track pads to avoid these situations. PFC 08 work great and are endurance pads so they will last for a while, especially on a heavy car like this and Laguna, which is hard on brakes.

[Z K]

DS2500 is not a track pad - it is designed for street use. You can get away with DS2500 on a light car for track use.. but definitely not on big heavy cars like the M3.

Every car I've ran these pads on track had really bad deposits all over after they get hot. The pad just melts and chunks apart when it gets hot.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Z K

DS2500 is not a track pad.

Every car I've ran these pads on track had really bad deposits all over after they get hot. The pad just melts and chunks apart when it gets hot.

It's fine for people who are new to HPDE and don't have super-sticky tires. But to your point, as soon as people start going faster, the pad will quickly prove itself to be the weak point -- hence my recommendation OP just uses these up and then goes to the Hawk DTC.

[Z K]

Originally Posted by dparm

It's fine for people who are new to HPDE and don't have super-sticky tires. But to your point, as soon as people start going faster, the pad will quickly prove itself to be the weak point -- hence my recommendation OP just uses these up and then goes to the Hawk DTC.

I agree on going to some more track oriented pads.

IMHO, the DS2500 should be reserved for street use and some light track maybe in light cars.

A step up without leaving the street/track hybrids would be Project Mu HC+ and HC-CS. They can handle up to 800C and do not leave deposits. That or Endless MX72 PLUS - not the regular MX72, those also melt and leave bad deposits on track. Availability is spotty for these Japanese pads but they are excellent if you can get it.

My problem with the DTC is that they have corrosive brake dust that eats paint. You have to clean the car immediately after use. If you let it sit or worse yet, get it wet - you'll need to clay and polish it out of the wheels and car paint.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by Z K

My problem with the DTC is that they have corrosive brake dust that eats paint. You have to clean the car immediately after use. If you let it sit or worse yet, get it wet - you'll need to clay and polish it out of the wheels and car paint.

That hasn't been my experience with nearly a dozen sets of them front and rear. No damage to the painted calipers, either set of wheels, or the car's paint. It comes right off with Iron-X and I even daily drive on those pads so the wheels sit dirty with them for a long time, sometimes.

[StogyBear]

How much better is Project Mu HC+ from the DS2500? Is there a point in trying these or should I just do the track pads? I've gotten pad swapping down to 30 mins at this point so I'm thinking it's best to just get a pair of dedicated track pads.

[dparm]

Originally Posted by StogyBear

How much better is Project Mu HC+ from the DS2500? Is there a point in trying these or should I just do the track pads? I've gotten pad swapping down to 30 mins at this point so I'm thinking it's best to just get a pair of dedicated track pads.

Get real track pads, and get ones that are easy to find. Brands like Hawk, G-Loc, Carbotech, PFC, etc. are always available from tons of distributors.

[admranger]

Bedding pads. SYT_Shadow and I find it a quaint practice, like hand cranking engines to start them.

Buy PFC. Stop wasting time bedding pads.

If you ever need to get pad deposits off rotors, drive in the cool weather with track pads and don’t let the pads or rotors get hot. That’ll take off your deposits like a grinding stone would.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by admranger

Bedding pads. SYT_Shadow and I find it a quaint practice, like hand cranking engines to start them.

Buy PFC. Stop wasting time bedding pads.

If you ever need to get pad deposits off rotors, drive in the cool weather with track pads and don’t let the pads or rotors get hot. That’ll take off your deposits like a grinding stone would.

That people still do archaic bedding procedures blows my mind.

I swapped pads and rotors at the track last weekend. Put the new pad in and went out for another session. Bedding never crossed my mind.

[kyippee]

Originally Posted by StogyBear

How much better is Project Mu HC+ from the DS2500? Is there a point in trying these or should I just do the track pads? I've gotten pad swapping down to 30 mins at this point so I'm thinking it's best to just get a pair of dedicated track pads.

I ran a few sets of Project Mu HC+ on my BBK before. They were ok, didn't fade on me in a 380mm/355mm BBK, but they wore really fast. Switched to Project Mu 999 nowadays. They're probably an upgrade over the DS2500.

On the bedding topic... hmm.. I don't really bed in pads anymore now either, but one time I did put in brand new pads mid-day. Had some weird uneven pad material on the rotors, like a circular stripe around the rotor. Not thinking much of it - was a one-time thing.

[dparm]

I've stopped bedding pads unless I change compounds.

The first session of the day is a weird one because I basically drive at 11/10ths to overheat them and get a good transfer layer, wait to feel some pad fade, then come into the pits and do a few cool down laps. They're good to go for the rest of the day.