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      11-16-2019, 05:07 AM   #23
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Exactly what I thought, your insights helped me make a decision.
Will post pics when I get it
Amazing community BTW !!!
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      11-18-2019, 06:08 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akkando View Post
redline on 4 is how fast?
I was joking, cop.

125 seems fast. I for sure was moving during the test drive but i don't recall going that fast, specifically. I do recall hitting redline in M mode 3 times in a row. Could have been 1, 2, 3. Or maybe i was going that fast. I don't know.
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      11-18-2019, 10:37 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Shrike360 View Post
Let me give you a comparison of speed. The other day I was in my DD, a stage 1 535xi wagon. There was a riced out and decatted 350z weaving in and out of traffic, tailgating, etc. I end up at the front of a light next him, and decided to mess with him for being such a dick. My fatty wagon completely blew the doors off him, even at speed. He then proceeded to try and race a Chrysler 200, which was just as fast as him...

Comparing my bone stock E92 to my tuned wagon, my E92 completely mops the floor with it in acceleration and handling. Though an auto, AWD and turbo torque makes the wagon really quick on city streets.
Sorry to threadjack the OP. For straight line low down torque, the 135i with a tune is a monster. I had one for a while. Got bored of it after I started to appreciate more than straight line speed.
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      11-19-2019, 01:03 AM   #26
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My wife drives a QX70S with the 3.7L VQHR or whatever the engine is called. I do like that engine but itís comparable to an N55, not an S65.

Hope you went back for a proper test drive. Post up photos and details when you take delivery! Congrats!
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      11-20-2019, 02:35 AM   #27
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The VQ motor has strong mid range.
Sadly I suspect a Z would be pretty even with a E92 forced to shift at 6KRPM.
Our cars are gutless gas guzzlers, till 6K when they become banshee gas guzzlers..
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      11-20-2019, 02:28 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPG_LOL View Post
The VQ motor has strong mid range.
Sadly I suspect a Z would be pretty even with a E92 forced to shift at 6KRPM.
Our cars are gutless gas guzzlers, till 6K when they become banshee gas guzzlers..
Highly doubt that. The VHR 3.7 rated at 330 hp dynos in the 250-260 range, I can only imagine a first gen 280hp DE motor will dyno around the low 200's.
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      11-20-2019, 04:08 PM   #29
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For the most fun opt for a manual and learn to heel&toe. Once you mastered it (which few people do) you're in high revving heaven. The engine becomes a musical instrument and you have control over the intensity of your blips. You can anticipate having to re-accelerate after a braking much better. The bonus is you can overdo blips before coming to a full stop causing head turning at will, which you cannot with a dct until fully stopped in neutral.
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      11-20-2019, 05:12 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPG_LOL View Post
The VQ motor has strong mid range.
Sadly I suspect a Z would be pretty even with a E92 forced to shift at 6KRPM.
Our cars are gutless gas guzzlers, till 6K when they become banshee gas guzzlers..
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3dliner View Post
Highly doubt that. The VHR 3.7 rated at 330 hp dynos in the 250-260 range, I can only imagine a first gen 280hp DE motor will dyno around the low 200's.
While I also would bet on the M versus the 280hp Z, keep in mind a stock S65 is only putting around ~275whp at 6K. I bet a 370Z (with the 330hp 3.7L) would win (again, M3 shifting at 6K), given the weight difference as well.
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      11-20-2019, 05:20 PM   #31
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The S65 has tech advantages like the fantastic intake path and the ITBs. I was pretty surprised to find out that the VQs don't really have oil cooling unless it's a Nismo, they run pretty hot, coupled with a small oil capacity of like 5 liters.
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      11-21-2019, 01:54 AM   #32
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If the M3 had to shift at 6k RPMs then a 350z would be just as fast?

Okay okay. My turn to play the random hypotheticals game!

If you prevented a 911 GT2 RS steering wheel from turning more than 10 degrees in either direction, the 350z would beat it around the Nurburgring.

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      11-21-2019, 02:32 AM   #33
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^ Except this wasnít a random hypo. OP went for a test drive, owner told him to keep it under 6K, and he came here asking why it didnít feel faster than his Z. Answer: because under those experienced conditions, it wasnít much faster, if it all.
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      11-21-2019, 03:27 AM   #34
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25hp difference @ 6k, which checks out given the weight difference.

The Zs aren't bad cars by any means, it's a great platform. You do have to upgrade the cooling, intake, TBs, exhaust, etc to bring to the M3s level though.
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      11-21-2019, 04:17 AM   #35
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Under 6 it's tame, go beyond n u'll get that grin! 7500 is the sweet spot, where u can still get some pull up to 8500. You can't go wrong, smiles per mile.
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      11-21-2019, 04:59 PM   #36
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Earlier this year, I had a late night run with a 370Z that was modded with at least wheels, suspension and exhaust. I was driving lazy and left the 6MT in 6th. I donít know what gear he was in or what trans he had, but he took off and it was a close run ó he pulled ahead but then I stayed with him and very slowly walked past near the end of the run from 70 to 140. I have a tune, xpipe, intake, rear exhaust and pulley. I was probably hitting 6000 when the pull ended.

Obviously if I had dropped to 3rd at the start, he would have seen only taillights. I am getting lazier so my next car will be a pdk or DCT or auto.
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      01-09-2020, 08:52 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
When I test drove my car I didn't give the guy selling it a choice. He was in the passenger seat, I was in the driver seat.

Car saw a redline on gears 2, 3, and 4.

I don't care if it bothered him, he could use the $26,450 cashiers check I handed him to wipe his tears.
This. Previous owner of my 911 got testy when I told him the test drive wasn't over until we took it on the highway. Like really, you think I'm going to put down that much money without having sampled the merchandise?

Now if it was a stick and your driving was terrible I as the owner might be worried about a money shift or gear/clutch grinding running up to red line (wouldn't he a good situation!) but if you had proven yourself a competent driver I would have argued the point.
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      01-11-2020, 12:32 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
If the M3 had to shift at 6k RPMs then a 350z would be just as fast?

Okay okay. My turn to play the random hypotheticals game!

If you prevented a 911 GT2 RS steering wheel from turning more than 10 degrees in either direction, the 350z would beat it around the Nurburgring.

No.

That is a completely valid, real world, every day scenario. Are you redlining your car every gear, every drive? Not even remotely close. Normal, day in and day out rpms are 3-6krpm the vast, VAST majority of the time, and the E90X is very tame in that range in the mid-gears (3,4,5). The Z's torque curve is actually meatier with a better shape in those same rpms. I could see it easily feeling more responsive and powerful in that scenario.

An all out max-effort run though the gears @ redline is a totally different story, and that is when the S65 really shines.

Edit 1 - my wife owned a G37S manual coupe for a while with late model VQ 3.7 motor and I spent a LOT of time driving it. Very strong midrange for sure with a good top end. A little unrefined but a very fun street motor for sure.

Edit 2
- after owning an E90 M3 6MT and living with it as a DD car (city, canyons, etc.), the test drive(s) can be very misleading. The tendency (naturally) during a test drive is to redline the car since that's how it's meant to be driven. Here, the car FULLY impresses, more than almost any other car. However, that completely misrepresents what the car is like in normal life. As such, I would urge any would be E9X buyer to pay closer attention and spend more time under 6k rpm during the test drive.
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Last edited by EricSMG; 01-11-2020 at 06:31 PM..
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      01-12-2020, 07:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjm41 View Post
If the M3 had to shift at 6k RPMs then a 350z would be just as fast?

Okay okay. My turn to play the random hypotheticals game!

If you prevented a 911 GT2 RS steering wheel from turning more than 10 degrees in either direction, the 350z would beat it around the Nurburgring.

No.

That is a completely valid, real world, every day scenario. Are you redlining your car every gear, every drive? Not even remotely close. Normal, day in and day out rpms are 3-6krpm the vast, VAST majority of the time, and the E90X is very tame in that range in the mid-gears (3,4,5). The Z's torque curve is actually meatier with a better shape in those same rpms. I could see it easily feeling more responsive and powerful in that scenario.

An all out max-effort run though the gears @ redline is a totally different story, and that is when the S65 really shines.

Edit 1 - my wife owned a G37S manual coupe for a while with late model VQ 3.7 motor and I spent a LOT of time driving it. Very strong midrange for sure with a good top end. A little unrefined but a very fun street motor for sure.

Edit 2
- after owning an E90 M3 6MT and living with it as a DD car (city, canyons, etc.), the test drive(s) can be very misleading. The tendency (naturally) during a test drive is to redline the car since that's how it's meant to be driven. Here, the car FULLY impresses, more than almost any other car. However, that completely misrepresents what the car is like in normal life. As such, I would urge any would be E9X buyer to pay closer attention and spend more time under 6k rpm during the test drive.
Agree. My mom had a G35 that definitely felt faster midrange than my E92 M.

My E90 335 had a better midrange stock than my M3. With a Cobb tune forget it.

My worst experience was against my brothers APR Stage I GLI. The M3 had to be wound out all the way through 2 gears to pull on the Dub.

It took me buying a Harrop blower to really wake up the midrange.

The E92 M is my favorite M3 and it is a lot of things, but in its stock form it is NOT a fast car, especially in the midrange. If you're coming from a 350z Nismo, you'll be disappointed. Yes it will be faster, but not by that much and it will FEEL slow until you get to 7000 rpm.
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      01-13-2020, 11:58 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
If you're coming from a 350z Nismo, you'll be disappointed. Yes it will be faster, but not by that much and it will FEEL slow until you get to 7000 rpm.
I don't know what's wrong with the M3's some of you guys are driving, but the E92 is wayyyy faster than a Nismo 350z. Those are 13.7-13.8 second cars trapping at 103mph.

Drive the car in its power band or get a turbo car.
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      01-13-2020, 02:24 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartledoo View Post
I don't know what's wrong with the M3's some of you guys are driving, but the E92 is wayyyy faster than a Nismo 350z. Those are 13.7-13.8 second cars trapping at 103mph.

Drive the car in its power band or get a turbo car.
Yea, I kind of agree. If torque shove and ultimate mid range is whatís wanted, the new Ms (or even a 340) are where itís at. But itís also kind of antithetical to Mís original mission to be expecting that kind of power delivery.

I think peopleís expectations in view of the turbo revolution weíve recently seen is kind of out of whack. Itís not been a historical expectation that cars deliver 90% or greater torque immediately off idle. Revving is fun, you know...
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      01-13-2020, 11:52 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14_deltaM3 View Post
Yea, I kind of agree. If torque shove and ultimate mid range is what’s wanted, the new Ms (or even a 340) are where it’s at. But it’s also kind of antithetical to M’s original mission to be expecting that kind of power delivery.

I think people’s expectations in view of the turbo revolution we’ve recently seen is kind of out of whack. It’s not been a historical expectation that cars deliver 90% or greater torque immediately off idle. Revving is fun, you know...
Asking for a little more midrange is not all all 'off idle'.

Further, the irony of your comments is that the S55 makes peak torque at just over 3k while the S65 makes peak torque at 3.9k..... So they are actually quite similar in that regard. In addition, the S55 has a very soft bottom with relatively little torque below 3k while the S65 has one of the broadest torque curves of any motor ever designed, making nearly peak torque all the way across the tach, contrary to your insinuation that M cars are supposed to be peaky, and, that turbo automatically means huge torque off idle.

In other words, pretty much your entire post is off base except that revving is fun
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      01-14-2020, 12:39 AM   #43
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Revving is fun though.
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      01-14-2020, 06:17 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
Asking for a little more midrange is not all all 'off idle'.

Further, the irony of your comments is that the S55 makes peak torque at just over 3k while the S65 makes peak torque at 3.9k..... So they are actually quite similar in that regard. In addition, the S55 has a very soft bottom with relatively little torque below 3k while the S65 has one of the broadest torque curves of any motor ever designed, making nearly peak torque all the way across the tach, contrary to your insinuation that M cars are supposed to be peaky, and, that turbo automatically means huge torque off idle.

In other words, pretty much your entire post is off base except that revving is fun

Iíd say itís the opposite. Your post suggests the s65 has all the flexibility you can need, but then you ask for more mid range anyways. Hence my point that what youíre really asking for is the artificially high mid range and low end torque offered by a turbo engine. Or else an engine like the VQ that is all mid range.

Your point about the s65 and s55 relative curves is also irrelevant given the scale difference in torque. The s55 is delivering over 400 pound feet at that point.
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