Camber plates as first handling upgrade?

[chocstraw]

Hey guys,

Just completed my first track day at streets of willow, and to me, the most glaring issue with the car isn't power or braking, I was struggling for front end grip at the limit. At sharp, moderate speed turns and sweeping high speed turns, the car tended to understeer.

I'm on stock EDC suspension, which actually seems to make a huge difference on-track, less-so on street.

Am I right in thinking that coilovers / struts / springs aren't going to make a huge difference and I should just make the jump to something like Ground Control camber plates, which are compatible with the EDC?

Thanks

[roastbeef]

If you're going to do coilovers in six months, just wait. If you're going to stick with EDC, camber plates are a must.

[SAMM3Y]

You could start with a big adjustable sway bar...

[kevin @ eas]

What tires were you running? Coil overs and camber plates do make a huge difference if you go with a quality set.

[chocstraw]

MPSS from 2016, 245/265 on ZCP rims.

I did a 1:35.xx, I guess people said it was a good time for a first track day on a mostly stock car.

I’d like to keep EDC, the more I use it, the more I notice how much it helps control body roll. Nice for daily driving too.

Is EDC competent enough with good alignment and suspension components or will I notice a truly drastic change if I sacrifice daily drivability with coilovers?

The whole front end of the car didn’t feel as stable as I’d like.

[s14_kev]

Originally Posted by chocstraw

MPSS from 2016, 245/265 on ZCP rims.

I did a 1:35.xx, I guess people said it was a good time for a first track day on a mostly stock car.

I’d like to keep EDC, the more I use it, the more I notice how much it helps control body roll. Nice for daily driving too.

Is EDC competent enough with good alignment and suspension components or will I notice a truly drastic change if I sacrifice daily drivability with coilovers?

The whole front end of the car didn’t feel as stable as I’d like.

If you go with something like Ohlins R&T, they will still be pretty comfy on the street and will be a nice upgrade on the track. If you want to switch to stiffer linear springs in the future, you can always go that route.

If you go with camber plates now and decide to upgrade in the future, you'll be doing the work twice and will need to make the camber plates work with your new suspension. I'd decide now and do it all at once if I were you.

[Montaver]

I had this dilemma, in the end I went straight to GC camber plates with Ohlins. My thinking was if your going to spend money on labour for camber plate install and alignment, may as well go to a full coil setup. First time on track with the Ohlins this weekend, i'll write a full review. Even in 50 street miles I can tell they are a significant upgrade with very little loss of civility.

[dbyrd]

If this is your first track event, do a few more events to see how hard the bug bites you. You learn a lot in the first few events. You can pull the pins to get more camber and adjust for a little toe out to help with turn in.. Also, tire pressure can significantly impact setup and turn-in.

If you're like me, you'll want a more track-focused setup than the Ohlins R&T.

[chocstraw]

I think I'll pull the alignment pins today and get it aligned to my specifications. Slight toe out, as much negative camber as they can get.

What is an ideal hot, just off the track PSI for tires? I've been hearing 28-32

[Dreamer99]

Originally Posted by chocstraw

I think I'll pull the alignment pins today and get it aligned to my specifications. Slight toe out, as much negative camber as they can get.

What is an ideal hot, just off the track PSI for tires? I've been hearing 28-32

Street tires are more like 38 hot

[kevin @ eas]

Yeah more like 36-38 PSI for street tires.

[chocstraw]

Previous owner already pulled the pins!

Maybe Carmax gave it a very conservative alignment when they had it in, or maybe a driver mod is the most pressing upgrade!

[chocstraw]

One pin pulled, other one still in.

Trying to piece together the story of a used car is always interesting.

Edit: pins were pulled and giving the car positive camber, pushed in the opposite direction of what is desired

[rymerc]

why would someone pull the pins and then align it for positive camber? That's awful.

Even with the pins pulled you won't get enough negative camber to wear street tires evenly on track. You need camber plates to get even tire wear, otherwise you're just throwing still decent tires away because you corded the shoulders.

Just buy them- they're quick and easy to install and you'll love the results.

[chocstraw]

Not sure why someone would, but the car corners MUCH harder now. Even a poorly setup M3 is still pretty great though.

Thanks guys

[Willem3]

Mine is also stock EDC with pins removed , now 1,5negative camber.
Much better, no understeer at high speeds turns. Only short sharp turns the car understeers.


Tire presusure with MPSS 35PSI

I think you dont need camber plates with a nice coil over set like Ohlins R&T if you also daily drive your M3

[amrazM]

Next step would be a wider front tire setup if not coil overs.

[Montaver]

I can tell you after a full track weekend the Ohlins are a significant upgrade from stock. I found the stock suspension quite frustrating due to heavy roll on sweepers and the general lack of control on weight transfer. The stock suspension would also take time to really settle which delayed getting on the power and made the car feel lazy.

Car feels lighter on it's feet and more resolved. It deals with bumps in one suspension stroke (going over curbs for example) and the car feels generally more tied down. It controls weight transfer in a much more timely manner and whilst the car still feels quite heavy generally it masks the weight more effectively. I also moved from PS4S to RE-71r (do it immediately, they are amazing tires the grip is phenomenal) and despite the stiffer springs and sidewalls road manners are very good, they are perfect from the street dialled back to 10 clicks from stiff or so.

I would caveat this that they are clearly not a full track suspension as they don't quite have the stiffness and immediacy some people might want in a dedicated setup. Even run 1 click from full stiff on the lower speed tighter corners there is some roll. For ultimate grip this may not be a bad thing however, it depends what you are looking for out of a setup. I can say they removed the frustration from the stock suspension and made the car way more enjoyable and confidence inspiring to drive fast, which ultimately is what its all about. For the money, performance and the fact there are little to no street comfort trade offs they work very well indeed.

Bonus - I also added monoballs at the same time, they add a touch more precision and remove some of the 'gloopiness' the stock steering can have. A lot less shimmy under heavy braking, nice upgrade to add if your doing coilovers.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

If you're going to do coilovers in six months, just wait. If you're going to stick with EDC, camber plates are a must.

+1

On a fresh EDC suspension with camber plates you can be quite fast. 'Fast' means different things to different people, but you can certainly be at pace in the fastest run group at PCA with EDC+camber plates.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by Willem3

Mine is also stock EDC with pins removed , now 1,5negative camber.
Much better, no understeer at high speeds turns. Only short sharp turns the car understeers.


Tire presusure with MPSS 35PSI

I think you dont need camber plates with a nice coil over set like Ohlins R&T if you also daily drive your M3

-1.5 is fine for 'spirited street driving', but that is not the same thing as the track.

If you track you need something that can go to -2.5/-3 up front. There really isn't a way around it. Camber plates allow you to achieve this

[Willem3]

How about the negatives (extra noise) with camber plates if you use the car like 80% ‘spritited street driving’ and 20% track?

[Montaver]

I have ground control camber plates, the street version. Haven't noticed any additional noise.