Savagegeese on the E92 M3: Future Collectable?

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by AdM1nsarEas$

Was disappointed with the 6sp during my test drives and very impressed with the dct.

That said, I’m realizing the flaws of dct the longer I’m driving it, even with the GTS tune (still clunky, lack of complete control like the auto downshift at low speeds). I’m starting to think the manual trans might be something that grows on you, whereas the dct exposes more flaws as time goes on...

Yea, the oe manual shifter is garbage. Possibly the worst oe I've ever used. However, with appropriate mods it can be a great shifter.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Yea, the oe manual shifter is garbage. Possibly the worst oe I've ever used. However, with appropriate mods it can be a great shifter.

Go drive a Porsche Cayman. Garbage shifter. Makes the E9x M3 6MT look good.

I put an AutoSolutions short shifter in. What a difference. Still not like a Honda, but it is a much bigger gearbox so there is only so much you can do.

[dsenechal]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

Yea, the oe manual shifter is garbage. Possibly the worst oe I've ever used. However, with appropriate mods it can be a great shifter.

Indeed. There is a new direct mount shifter coming to market very soon that is going to be game changing for the e9x platform. Night and day difference to even the current crop of chassis mount shifters (CAE & RTD) with none of the drawbacks

[Epoustouflant]

Originally Posted by torrque

BINGO

Nop. I sold my MT after 3 years, stepped into a Porsche PDK and never looked back.

The MDCT is better than the PDK Gen 1 in Manual mode. Porsche has the edge in D mode.

What BMW accomplished with the MDCT was a signature moment of its era.

The MT is just another rubbery notchy BMW shifter.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

Go drive a Porsche Cayman. Garbage shifter. Makes the E9x M3 6MT look good.

I put an AutoSolutions short shifter in. What a difference. Still not like a Honda, but it is a much bigger gearbox so there is only so much you can do.

I tried to drive a 1st gen at the track but I was about a foot too tall, so I missed the experience. Which gen?

Originally Posted by dsenechal

Indeed. There is a new direct mount shifter coming to market very soon that is going to be game changing for the e9x platform. Night and day difference to even the current crop of chassis mount shifters (CAE & RTD) with none of the drawbacks

Well shit I already RTDed. What drawbacks are being eliminated? You can't leave me hangin on the juicy info, or I'll find you!...And your garage more importantly...

[DRLane]

Originally Posted by Bartledoo

I tried to drive a 1st gen at the track but I was about a foot too tall, so I missed the experience. Which gen?

Well shit I already RTDed. What drawbacks are being eliminated? You can't leave me hangin on the juicy info, or I'll find you!...And your garage more importantly...

Yeah, I'm very skeptical.

[Iyzmi]

Originally Posted by Epoustouflant

Nop. I sold my MT after 3 years, stepped into a Porsche PDK and never looked back.

The MDCT is better than the PDK Gen 1 in Manual mode. Porsche has the edge in D mode.

What BMW accomplished with the MDCT was a signature moment of its era.

The MT is just another rubbery notchy BMW shifter.

Did you try upgrading the shifter before making up your mind? It costs about the same as a DCT tune and basically eliminates the shifter feel argument from the 6MT vs DCT discussion.

[Epoustouflant]

Originally Posted by Iyzmi

Did you try upgrading the shifter before making up your mind? It costs about the same as a DCT tune and basically eliminates the shifter feel argument from the 6MT vs DCT discussion.

My lackadaisical experience with the 6MT is beyond the feel.

The clutch rattles at low speeds whenever you push it in, the ratios are too long - makes the S65 feels sluggish at times.

I had the F10 shifter and it improved the rowing action.

[bmwm3s65]

I must be impressed very easily. my e90 m3 mt being my first sports car and first manual, to me, is an honor and a privilege to drive. The worst part about owning it is I want to drive it every single day and constantly ask my wife if we need something from the store, then take the longest way possible to get to said store. This is even after paying bmw out of pocket to replace the motor due to a spun rod. As for shifter mods, i have the AS shifter 12% reduction with f10 weighted shift knob. Feels great.

[Epoustouflant]

Originally Posted by AdM1nsarEas$

Why would you buy an auto 911...even if the trans was shitty, on principle alone that’s wrong on so many levels

It was a 987.2S - the 3.4 needed all the help it could get.

[torrque]

Originally Posted by Epoustouflant

My lackadaisical experience with the 6MT is beyond the feel.

The clutch rattles at low speeds whenever you push it in, the ratios are too long - makes the S65 feels sluggish at times.

I had the F10 shifter and it improved the rowing action.

Each to it's own... the rattle is due to the lightweight flywheel, same as on E46 M3... I like it. It's a specific of this car.

I have 2 manual BMW's and they both shift perfectly fine. I have not missed one shift due to being sluggish, the 335xi seems to be a bit smoother when cold, is all. As soon as it's warmed, the M3 is butter smooth and very well engaging.


I am not sure how much you drove manuals in your life, but my first car was in 1986. and it was manual; I still hate automatics, and apart from the Ferrari F1 gearbox which needs milliseconds to shift, nothing this side of 100k is worth in my eyes... An F430 Scuderia or a 488 would be the only cars I would accept in auto/dct.

Nothing beats the feeling when you do rev matching in a manual, and it comes out well, lap after lap

Over and out.

[Epoustouflant]

Originally Posted by torrque

Each to it's own... the rattle is due to the lightweight flywheel, same as on E46 M3... I like it. It's a specific of this car.

I have 2 manual BMW's and they both shift perfectly fine. I have not missed one shift due to being sluggish, the 335xi seems to be a bit smoother when cold, is all. As soon as it's warmed, the M3 is butter smooth and very well engaging.


I am not sure how much you drove manuals in your life, but my first car was in 1986. and it was manual; I still hate automatics, and apart from the Ferrari F1 gearbox which needs milliseconds to shift, nothing this side of 100k is worth in my eyes... An F430 Scuderia or a 488 would be the only cars I would accept in auto/dct.

Nothing beats the feeling when you do rev matching in a manual, and it comes out well, lap after lap

Over and out.

Funny you say that: the 430 Scud is not a double clutch transmission, it's a single hydraulic automated clutch and neither does the M3 manual have a lightweight flywheel, it's a heavy dual mass.

I think you need to research a bit more on what these transmissions are than going over your experience on automatics from the 80s.

I've driven manual all my life until I went to Porsche. I am not looking back.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by AdM1nsarEas$

110% agree on the gear ratios. Car feels slow. Same problem with the e60 m5.

Also add rubbery clutch pedal feel. I am told, cdv delete, ultimate clutch pedal, removing spring all helps, but I think it’s just a characteristic of the car.

Cdv doesn't exist on this car.

[Eja144]

I don't really get all the hate for the 6MT. I've never had any issues shifting or finding a gear. Sure, the shifter feel could be better/more precise, but the way some people describe it makes it sound undriveable.

I think the clutch has a nice solid feel. Not too heavy or light with a predictable engagement point. Heel/toe is easier than any other manual I've driven.

I'll probably do an SSK and M5 shift knob sometime in the future, but I'm in no hurry.

[Bartledoo]

Originally Posted by Eja144

I don't really get all the hate for the 6MT. I've never had any issues shifting or finding a gear. Sure, the shifter feel could be better/more precise, but the way some people describe it makes it sound undriveable.

I think the clutch has a nice solid feel. Not too heavy or light with a predictable engagement point. Heel/toe is easier than any other manual I've driven.

I'll probably do an SSK and M5 shift knob sometime in the future, but I'm in no hurry.

I was fine with the stock shifter for over 5 years. It is just so bad relative to the rest of the car. If it was on my old jetta diesel wagon I wouldn't be perturbed, but in fact my old jetta diesel sportwagen actually had a much better shifter. Very easy fix though so I think it is a moot argument against the car.

[STooK]

Man this thread evolved a lot in the last 3 pages...started off about the video then what does it eventually turn into? Our beloved DCT vs 6MT debate.

Never liked this guy's reviews, they always were so long and boring so no surprise he's not a M3 fan. I went for a drive in my e92 last night for over an hour. I don't drive it too much now, maybe once every 1-2 weeks but it amazes me every time I take it out. Not the fastest car out there anymore but still fast enough for the streets, handles like its on rails, and still looks amazing all these years later. I really can't think of anything in the price range of e9x M3's that will give you the same kind of experience.

[G80indy]

Mark has lost objectivity. He just annoys me. He's a curmudgeon.
The other guy has saved the channel.

Enjoy:

[New2Roundel]

Originally Posted by STooK

Man this thread evolved a lot in the last 3 pages...started off about the video then what does it eventually turn into? Our beloved DCT vs 6MT debate.

Yeah, so much drama. My e92M was a manual. It didn't have great feel. I added a ZHP knob and it felt better. Still, not what I would consider a great experience. But it also didn't ruin my experience with the car---I wouldn't have gotten it any other way. When Asian companies offer a manual transmission, I find they just feel better than what the Germans have on offer across the board. My 997tt is a manual. It feels better than the e92. Still, it's not great. Eh. I prefer rowing my own gears unless the manual interrupts my experience with the car. I've yet to drive any car where that has been the case. So yeah, the manual in the M3 could be better, but it's far from a disaster in my experience.

Never liked this guy's reviews, they always were so long and boring so no surprise he's not a M3 fan. I went for a drive in my e92 last night for over an hour. I don't drive it too much now, maybe once every 1-2 weeks but it amazes me every time I take it out. Not the fastest car out there anymore but still fast enough for the streets, handles like its on rails, and still looks amazing all these years later. I really can't think of anything in the price range of e9x M3's that will give you the same kind of experience.

I don't mind him and like the production of his videos, but some of his perspectives are odd, IMO. I mean almost all street cars are a compromise. And yet he singles out the m3 and competitors as poseur cars for some reason. I really don't understand his objections. My thought is that he seems to vastly prefer Asian cars and cheap performance-oriented cars. So he gushes over cars that fit those attributes, but doesn't seem to understand the benefits in quality and performance envelope with more expensive cars.

I don't think the e92 M3 is the greatest car ever, but it was a superb car. Perhaps his grumpster attitude is just more of his schtick for the camera.

[jasonturbo]

If you can actually sit there and watch a Savagegeese video for more than 30 seconds there is something wrong with you.

The channel should be called "Beta-Cuck Car Reviews".