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[Helmsman]

Hi guys, Michelin make a star (*) marked version of their rubber claimed specifically for the ///Ms, adding a few extra bucks assuming you get them. Reading different stories about this, some suggesting marking just to make more money, some says slightly different size (height) to match staggered set.

Old stories though, anyone with an updates version?

Thanks!

[EJT86]

Means nothing. The size is the size, hypothetically if you leased an M4 or something and replaced the tires before you turned it in you’d need to get the star ones. It’s just to make money, just like buying BMW branded OE part for a huge upcharge or a Valeo OEM part

[dparm]

Originally Posted by EJT86

Means nothing. The size is the size, hypothetically if you leased an M4 or something and replaced the tires before you turned it in you’d need to get the star ones. It’s just to make money, just like buying BMW branded OE part for a huge upcharge or a Valeo OEM part

Wrong.

The various manufacturer markings (*, TPC, N0, etc.) denote that the tire was modified for a specific application. For example, BMW could've told them they wanted a slightly stiffer sidewall due to the cornering forces the car can generate. Or they could ask for a shallower tread depth to reduce tire squirm for more responsive handling.

It is not simply a marketing gimmick, though the manufacturer-specific changes are rarely documented. You can sometimes figure them out by comparing the Tire Rack website specs for the generic versus special version.

For example, I just pulled up the MPSS in 275/35R19. The BMW version has a higher load rating (100 vs 96), which translates to an extra 200 pounds. The BMW version is also one pound lighter but has 0.4" less tread width. Why BMW needed those specific changes is unknown, though I can speculate that the higher load rating is due to the car's weight and heat it puts into the tires. The smaller tread with might mean that it has a more rounded sidewall to give more predictable break-away at the limit.

For 255/35R19, there's three: generic, BMW, and Mercedes. Again, the BMW one has a smaller tread width versus the others which points to some specific handling characteristics BMW wanted.

Can you put the generic ones on? Sure, as long as they have the right load rating. Will you notice any difference? Hard to say, there are a lot of subjective qualities to tires that not everyone is attuned to. In the end it is up to each owner to decide how to spend their money and if they want to get into the game of second-guessing BMW's R&D.

[EJT86]

Originally Posted by dparm

Wrong.

The various manufacturer markings (*, TPC, N0, etc.) denote that the tire was modified for a specific application. For example, BMW could've told them they wanted a slightly stiffer sidewall due to the cornering forces the car can generate. Or they could ask for a shallower tread depth to reduce tire squirm for more responsive handling.

It is not simply a marketing gimmick, though the manufacturer-specific changes are rarely documented. You can sometimes figure them out by comparing the Tire Rack website specs for the generic versus special version.

For example, I just pulled up the MPSS in 275/35R19. The BMW version has a higher load rating (100 vs 96), which translates to an extra 200 pounds. The BMW version is also one pound lighter but has 0.4" less tread width. Why BMW needed those specific changes is unknown, though I can speculate that the higher load rating is due to the car's weight and heat it puts into the tires. The smaller tread with might mean that it has a more rounded sidewall to give more predictable break-away at the limit.

For 255/35R19, there's three: generic, BMW, and Mercedes. Again, the BMW one has a smaller tread width versus the others which points to some specific handling characteristics BMW wanted.

Can you put the generic ones on? Sure, as long as they have the right load rating. Will you notice any difference? Hard to say, there are a lot of subjective qualities to tires that not everyone is attuned to. In the end it is up to each owner to decide how to spend their money and if they want to get into the game of second-guessing BMW's R&D.

Ok but I’m pretty sure BMW didn’t tell Michelin any specifics for 275s since E9X dont use 275 as stock sizes. Also any specifics tweaks on a tire would be pointless since the star denotes “BMW” and not “BMW F80,F82,F83” etc. a guy with a wide body modded 335 can make use of a BMW specific tire? Why because it’s “BMW” BMW square 275s were built specifically for an E90 wanting a square setup? So the guy running 275/245 somehow also factored into this formula? This all might add up if rather than a “bmw *” there was some model designation. E92s and F80s and every other BMW aren’t similar so stating a tire is specifically for BMW is about as useful as filling up for $5/gal on 93 octane * BMW gas.

[Helmsman]

Thanks for the input guys. The load is easy enough to handle regardless, 96y and 100y should do the job. Rear 275s was ordered by the shop so no idea whether star, while I cheaped out and ordered non star 255s. Guess we'll see if I scr@wed up for the sake of a few buck...😎

On the other side guess Im leaving BMWs original thinking by changing the size anyway...

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by EJT86

Ok but I’m pretty sure BMW didn’t tell Michelin any specifics for 275s since E9X dont use 275 as stock sizes.

The BMW * tires in question were from the F8x platform development. OEMs work with tire manufacturers and, as mentioned above, create sometimes highly customized versions of tires. Variations in tread pattern and compound are the most common, and all sorts of manipulations are possible to emphasize some aspect of the overall design envelope (normally at the expense of other aspects) versus the standard tire.

I would suggest just buying the regular replacement market PS4S and steer away from the OEM specific versions. I'm reminded of many years ago on my E39 M5 when I needed to replace a tire; 275/35-18 PS2. Ordered from TireRack and it was rubbing the strut up front where the prior PS2 was fine. Turns out it was an "MO" version (Mercedes) and had a substantially different tread pattern in addition to being slightly wider. Turn out that at that time there were multiple versions of the PS2 in 275/35-18 (regular, Mercedes, Viper front, and one other). I had to send it back and source a "regular" PS2 which required a few weeks wait.

The net of it is that you never know what an OEM has worked with the tire maker to create -- quieter? stickier? less rolling resistance in order to just make it through some goal on mileage? Etc, etc. Some years back I think it was C&D that reported, on a Vette I believe it was, that the first portion of its tread compound, on its manufacturer specific tire, was incredibly sticky and then it got harder for longer wear.

Imagine a case where a car maker has a road noise issue that is structure borne resulting in amplifying the sound at a resonant frequency or harmonic. Shows up late in design cycle that its a problem on certain roads, etc. Easy fix? Off to the tire manufacturer to tweak a given tire design to reduce noise for this specific issue and frequency. I'm sure even crazier stuff has likely transpired.

Hence you actually never know what you're getting, and the modifications are all confidential.

[///M Power-Belgium]

I would contact Michelin (France) to get information in detail about the (star*) and the PS4S tire for our ///M3 E90/92 model .

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

I would contact Michelin (France) to get information in detail about the (star*) and the PS4S tire for our ///M3 E90/92 model .

You'll be given a generic response many have posted before. The precise info about any OEM's tire version is proprietary.

FWIW, here is TireRack's take on OEM tires, and here is their link on the designations.

[EJT86]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

The BMW * tires in question were from the F8x platform development. OEMs work with tire manufacturers and, as mentioned above, create sometimes highly customized versions of tires. Variations in tread pattern and compound are the most common, and all sorts of manipulations are possible to emphasize some aspect of the overall design envelope (normally at the expense of other aspects) versus the standard tire.

I would suggest just buying the regular replacement market PS4S and steer away from the OEM specific versions. I'm reminded of many years ago on my E39 M5 when I needed to replace a tire; 275/35-18 PS2. Ordered from TireRack and it was rubbing the strut up front where the prior PS2 was fine. Turns out it was an "MO" version (Mercedes) and had a substantially different tread pattern in addition to being slightly wider. Turn out that at that time there were multiple versions of the PS2 in 275/35-18 (regular, Mercedes, Viper front, and one other). I had to send it back and source a "regular" PS2 which required a few weeks wait.

The net of it is that you never know what an OEM has worked with the tire maker to create -- quieter? stickier? less rolling resistance in order to just make it through some goal on mileage? Etc, etc. Some years back I think it was C&D that reported, on a Vette I believe it was, that the first portion of its tread compound, on its manufacturer specific tire, was incredibly sticky and then it got harder for longer wear.

Imagine a case where a car maker has a road noise issue that is structure borne resulting in amplifying the sound at a resonant frequency or harmonic. Shows up late in design cycle that its a problem on certain roads, etc. Easy fix? Off to the tire manufacturer to tweak a given tire design to reduce noise for this specific issue and frequency. I'm sure even crazier stuff has likely transpired.

Hence you actually never know what you're getting, and the modifications are all confidential.

That’s all fine and everything. And I’m not disputing you saying tweaks get made but using your example of a hypothetical road noise issue on a vehicle. They still don’t put “* M235i” on the tire just a “*” for bmw. So all the tweaks they made to remedy an issue for a certain car only to mark it as belong to the entire brand? C’mon that’s about the anyday consumer paying more money for the tires. Whatever BMW May or may not have had done to the 275 4s DEFINITELY wasn’t for a 5-9 year old platform that didn’t use that tire as OE, but they’d love for people to ponder it and buy it anyway. Do we really need BMW branded NGK plugs for twice the price?

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by EJT86

That’s all fine and everything. And I’m not disputing you saying tweaks get made but using your example of a hypothetical road noise issue on a vehicle. They still don’t put “* M235i” on the tire just a “*” for bmw. So all the tweaks they made to remedy an issue for a certain car only to mark it as belong to the entire brand? C’mon that’s about the anyday consumer paying more money for the tires. Whatever BMW May or may not have had done to the 275 4s DEFINITELY wasn’t for a 5-9 year old platform that didn’t use that tire as OE, but they’d love for people to ponder it and buy it anyway. Do we really need BMW branded NGK plugs for twice the price?

BMW or any other car maker never claimed that any of these OE-specific tires are for all their products -- to the contrary, they will specifically tell you which models which sizes were developed for...such as the PSC2's in 245/35-19 and 265/35-19 developed for the M2, etc. It's up to the customer to decide at replacement time if they want to use the OE-spec tire or not; most choose not to for good reason.

All those brand specific tire markings do not imply they are designed for that generic brand of car; to the contrary, each tire manufacturer will provide the specific car model application for each size/model tire when asked. There's no doubt that uniformed and/or intentionally misleading tire salesman try to steer people to "their car's brand" tires with inaccurate statements.

[EJT86]

Originally Posted by CSBM5

BMW or any other car maker never claimed that any of these OE-specific tires are for all their products -- to the contrary, they will specifically tell you which models which sizes were developed for...such as the PSC2's in 245/35-19 and 265/35-19 developed for the M2, etc. It's up to the customer to decide at replacement time if they want to use the OE-spec tire or not; most choose not to for good reason.

All those brand specific tire markings do not imply they are designed for that generic brand of car; to the contrary, each tire manufacturer will provide the specific car model application for each size/model tire when asked. There's no doubt that uniformed and/or intentionally misleading tire salesman try to steer people to "their car's brand" tires with inaccurate statements.

Maybe it’s a little of both. Yes the tire isn’t made for a specific brand, that was kind of my point. The argument is that bmw went to Michelin with a list of alterations for a specific car BUT bmw made sure not to specifically state which car that way people who don’t know any better (the kind who get spark plugs done at the dealer out of pocket) will order a set of BMW tires on tire rack and spend more money. I have problems trusting a team of guys with marketing degrees slapping a brand on something and saying it’s better. In this case I just relate it to most other cases with these cars; BMW brand for $200 or Bosch for $80, bmw brand for $19 or NGK for $9. Plus remember way back when everyone was jumping ship for the Super Sports because they were better in every way BUT for some reason the PS2s cost more? And the reason they cost more (speculation) was because they were the OE tire still

[Helmsman]

Cheers guys, again seems I'm reasonable safe leaving the order with non star. I'll report back once the PSS goes out and PS4S goes in!