Should I keep the damaged car?

[Scrippy]

Only way I would stick by this car would be if it was given to me by someone I loved greatly who is no longer with us. Otherwise get whatcha can from insurance and find another beauty for sale.

[r0cketm0nkey]

Originally Posted by socalcoding

Total it and cash out, insurance companies tend to be very generous with valuing cars. I can see you getting a good chunk for a car with 22k miles. I'd cash out and begin searching for a clean low mileage car

Gotta say that's what I'm currently waiting for as well, see how much my payday is if it's totaled. Also, the ambulance's insurance has accepted liability, so I'm receiving punitive damage awards (I called my attorney, and thank goodness I had a dash cam. Clear cut case). Some strange insurance name...never heard of it. But then I never got butt raped by an ambulance before, either.

I attached some pics. Didn't take pics of the front or driver door; I was sandwiched, but the front looks to be mostly cosmetic. Driver door no longer close flush as I previously mentioned.

On another note, see those tires? Two days old before I got rammed. #ffs

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

Not sure why people think a frame can't be pulled straight.. it absolutely can be put back to better than OEM depends how much you wanna spend..

There's a very good reason for that. Tempered and heat treated metals do not retain the same rigidity, especially after bending, unless it's reforged. You also have all the metals in between to consider. When you so much as turn a 3600lbs car, you'll feel it. Hell, I can tell the difference with a 2800lbs car. Even after pulled back into shape, it does not feel the same. Someone may be able to negate that with structural reinforcement bars, roll cages, etc, but stock for stock, you generally do not want a car with frame damage.

At any rate, the car's going on a jig this week. The report will show how bad it is.

[XKxRome0ox]

Originally Posted by r0cketm0nkey

Gotta say that's what I'm currently waiting for as well, see how much my payday is if it's totaled. Also, the ambulance's insurance has accepted liability, so I'm receiving punitive damage awards (I called my attorney, and thank goodness I had a dash cam. Clear cut case). Some strange insurance name...never heard of it. But then I never got butt raped by an ambulance before, either.

I attached some pics. Didn't take pics of the front or driver door; I was sandwiched, but the front looks to be mostly cosmetic. Driver door no longer close flush as I previously mentioned.

On another note, see those tires? Two days old before I got rammed. #ffs

There's a very good reason for that. Tempered and heat treated metals do not retain the same rigidity, especially after bending, unless it's reforged. You also have all the metals in between to consider. When you so much as turn a 3600lbs car, you'll feel it. Hell, I can tell the difference with a 2800lbs car. Even after pulled back into shape, it does not feel the same. Someone may be able to negate that with structural reinforcement bars, roll cages, etc, but stock for stock, you generally do not want a car with frame damage.

At any rate, the car's going on a jig this week. The report will show how bad it is.

what state are you in?
punitive damage?? I'm pretty sure you are misstating whatever your attorney told you ...
you don't get punitive damage unless if there was gross negligence or some extreme circumstance
accepting liability just means the insurance company will take care of your damages

how are you physically? get checked out and get medical treatment
you don't want to look back and regret not getting your body looked after as much as you are doing for the car

[SAMM3Y]

There's nothing forged on a m3 chassis and they wouldn't heat it to bend it back, if they needed to reinforce it obviously a good welder can repair and reinforce >OEM. Think how they repair cracks on the e46 subframes. I understand the stigma that comes with frame repair and it makes it near impossible to move on the preowned market. Just don't agree with the "it'll never handle as good" mantra. You sounded like you really wanted to keep your car, judging by the pictures that doesn't look like a total loss it would get snapped up quick at the insurance auctions... was just throwing out an option, lots of good frame guys out there

[r0cketm0nkey]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

what state are you in?
punitive damage?? I'm pretty sure you are misstating whatever your attorney told you ...
you don't get punitive damage unless if there was gross negligence or some extreme circumstance
accepting liability just means the insurance company will take care of your damages

how are you physically? get checked out and get medical treatment
you don't want to look back and regret not getting your body looked after as much as you are doing for the car

Yeah I'm not familiar with it...but you'd think an ambulance falling asleep @ the wheel en route to a call would be gross negligence...I dunno. Well, my car looks gross now lol

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

There's nothing forged on a m3 chassis and they wouldn't heat it to bend it back, if they needed to reinforce it obviously a good welder can repair and reinforce >OEM. Think how they repair cracks on the e46 subframes. I understand the stigma that comes with frame repair and it makes it near impossible to move on the preowned market. Just don't agree with the "it'll never handle as good" mantra. You sounded like you really wanted to keep your car, judging by the pictures that doesn't look like a total loss it would get snapped up quick at the insurance auctions... was just throwing out an option, lots of good frame guys out there

True...nothing is certain until it gets examine this week. I'm playing it by ear, but also prepping possibilities. I bought it with the hopes of keeping it low miles and a clean title...that's out the window now. Again, if there's a chance, I'm totaling it. The clean title to me was really important, for all the usual reasons you'd expect.

Besides, it's a good excuse to revisit that Z06 I checked out a while back...

[LuckiSevens]

You sure there's 'frame' damage, doesn't look that bad to me. I'd consider buying it back looks like an easy repair, for someone good.

[pbonsalb]

Looks like minor damage. I am surprised the insurance company is totaling it. But rear quarter panel damage is often expensive to fix.

[Mr. BMW]

Hard to tell from the pics but it doesn't look that bad. Would be a shame to total a 2013 with low miles!

[Sandye90m3]

Originally Posted by SAMM3Y

Not sure why people think a frame can't be pulled straight.. it absolutely can be put back to better than OEM depends how much you wanna spend..

such a BOLD statement, jeez. Strongly disagree with that.

I like to extrapolate to the extremes for rationale. But If I bend a piece of metal, and bend it back, it has obviously lost it's rigidity. Simple physics.

[pbonsalb]

There is structural foam to restore rigidity. Simple physics. This car could be fixed to new condition. The question is how much it will cost, which determines whether the insurance company totals it or not. Even if totaled, it would probably still be worth $5-10k because of the salvageable parts.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

There is structural foam to restore rigidity. Simple physics. This car could be fixed to new condition. The question is how much it will cost, which determines whether the insurance company totals it or not. Even if totaled, it would probably still be worth $5-10k because of the salvageable parts.

The engine is worth $8k alone

[SAMM3Y]

Originally Posted by Sandye90m3

such a BOLD statement, jeez. Strongly disagree with that.

I like to extrapolate to the extremes for rationale. But If I bend a piece of metal, and bend it back, it has obviously lost it's rigidity. Simple physics.

I love it when people who never get their hands dirty make comments like this.. such a bold statement..

[pbonsalb]

Originally Posted by Scharbag

The engine is worth $8k alone

Retail. Parters need to make something for their time.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by Sandye90m3

such a BOLD statement, jeez. Strongly disagree with that.

I like to extrapolate to the extremes for rationale. But If I bend a piece of metal, and bend it back, it has obviously lost it's rigidity. Simple physics.

Unfortunately, it is the exact opposite. When you bend most metals, it will cause work hardening. As a result, the metal becomes less elastic (Young's modulus will increase). Unfortunately, the location of the work hardening will likely become more brittle due to the induced crystalline fractures. Some metals are far more tolerant of work hardening, such as copper wire. Most are not. Some, like cast iron, just simply break. Special alloys exist that can handle deformation indefinitely, such as car springs, without becoming brittle.

Think of a coat hanger - once bent, it is way harder to bend back and almost impossible to bend back perfectly straight. And if you bend it a few times in the same place, it will break.

That is where heat treating comes into play. But that is an entirely far more complicated can of worms. Black magic and voodoo!!

Cheers,

[kimiraikkonen]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

There is structural foam to restore rigidity. Simple physics. This car could be fixed to new condition. The question is how much it will cost, which determines whether the insurance company totals it or not. Even if totaled, it would probably still be worth $5-10k because of the salvageable parts.

If totalled, the car will definitely be paid out more than $5-10K to the OP. I had an ACV of $26K for a much older M3 (2008 model) and one with much higher mileage (over 120K miles)....see below.......... So the OP should definitely be able to get higher than that.

My previous M3




Insurance company will be very generous on the total amount. Their "analytics" team runs a very low-level and basic comps analysis to determine the ACV. For normal cars, this can hurt....but for lower volume models like the M3, this can work dramatically in your favor.

OP has several things going for him. It's a more recent model (2013) and it has very low mileage (29K). These insurance folks are very lazy and typically pull 2 to 3 comps and call it a day. So I would push them hard to focus on 2013 models and for those with less than 35-40K miles. Insurance companies typically do a 200-250 mi radius max....so if you are in SoCal, you will be hard pressed to find many used cars under 50K miles (given how much people drive a year).

So I pull up Cargurus right now, there's not much in the under 50K mile range for E92 M3s in SoCal. So they might have to expand the search to a wider range. You can run your own comps analysis, but if you push them to identify replacement value for a 2013 E92 M3 (clean title, no prior accident, etc), I have a feeling they will settle in on a range of $36-38K ACV for your car. Add in the sales tax compensation, and you should be be at $40K+ all said and done for the car. Don't expect much for punitive compensation (unless you are willing to take them to court). Insurance will likely offer you $1-2K for the inconvenience of the accident. If you have medical claims, then your medical care is paid out 100% and they will usually tack on the punitive compensation for medical potentially up to 1X your out of pocket for medical incurred. So if you are diligent and do your 3-4 month biweekly treatment plan at a chiropractor (say spending $5K out of pocket), you will get likely $5K for the medical and then potentially up to $5K for the extra inconvenience.

In any event, best of luck with the process.

[spazzyfry123]

Is that a crumple I see in the upper portion of the right rear quarter panel? In between the back glass and passenger side window. May just be reflection.

My 2011 E90M was totaled last year due to a negligent driver. Mine had (if I can remember correctly - I've got a thread on here about it) 69k miles. I think I pocketed $33k after the dust settled. Mine was in much worse shape than your pictures depict. Keep in mind that I battled with them for about two or three months to arrive at that number. My pushing got me an extra $10k or so.

I had considered keeping the car (they offered me salvage price of $11k...I think. I try to suppress the memories of my baby being totaled). Wasn't worth it for me to take back to make it an exclusive track car. I watched it clear through auction and someone paid - after fees and all - about $19k for my totaled 2011.75 slicktop, no nav, 6MT, manual Speed Cloth E90M. I was floored. EVERY body panel needed replacement and/or work. Someone liked the spec even more than me apparently!

Good luck. You've got a long road ahead. I'd say let the car ride out to the big field unless you have plans for track car.

[r0cketm0nkey]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Is that a crumple I see in the upper portion of the right rear quarter panel? In between the back glass and passenger side window. May just be reflection.

Yup, that's a crumple.

Got the estimate from the collision center. Confirmed frame damage. Specifically the rear metal has been crumpled, bent/broken suspension braces, and some other stuff. Front has some minor frame damage too, and some damage to the radiator mounts.

The estimate now currently sits at 20k, including labor. Unfortunately, with the low miles on my car, the pre-crash value is closer to 37k. So basically no chance of totaling. Still debating on what I want to do when I get the vehicle back, but leaning towards dumping it right after, even more so after hearing about suspension damage.

[pbonsalb]

You can try claiming diminished value since a car that had had $20k in repairs is worth less than a car that has never been damaged. This repair will show up on a carfax. With that added to the repair cost, maybe it will be totaled.

[wfdeacon88]

Say you get $20K for repairs, then perhaps $10K for diminished value... even if that total isn't enough to get it deemed totalled, you could take the $ and then part out the car and probably make another $10-15K..

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by r0cketm0nkey

Yup, that's a crumple.

Got the estimate from the collision center. Confirmed frame damage. Specifically the rear metal has been crumpled, bent/broken suspension braces, and some other stuff. Front has some minor frame damage too, and some damage to the radiator mounts.

The estimate now currently sits at 20k, including labor. Unfortunately, with the low miles on my car, the pre-crash value is closer to 37k. So basically no chance of totaling. Still debating on what I want to do when I get the vehicle back, but leaning towards dumping it right after, even more so after hearing about suspension damage.

I’d say that’s totaled. California is repair costs + salvage cash value > actual cash value = totaled. Frame work front and rear with a crumple on a quarter panel that spans from the rear to the windshield. I’d say actual repair costs will be higher. Claiming diminished value on top should exceed ACV of $37k, right?

Mine had no structural damage (at least from the estimates without actually doing any work) and was totaled under the same formula for Georgia. But they used KBB for that value and when it came time to pay, we used actual values.

[r0cketm0nkey]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

I’d say that’s totaled. California is repair costs + salvage cash value > actual cash value = totaled. Frame work front and rear with a crumple on a quarter panel that spans from the rear to the windshield. I’d say actual repair costs will be higher. Claiming diminished value on top should exceed ACV of $37k, right?

Mine had no structural damage (at least from the estimates without actually doing any work) and was totaled under the same formula for Georgia. But they used KBB for that value and when it came time to pay, we used actual values.

Ultimately it's up to the insurer to determine whether to repair or total. Since it's the other party's fault, I'm not sure what their determination is as of yet. I'm also unsure if the ambulance's insurer works with the same metrics as consumer insurance (if there's a difference at all).

On the note of diminished value, that's also something I've thought about, but that would mean I have to keep the vehicle for another appraisal, so I can have some hard numbers. On the flip side...I could potentially sell it ASAP before the record shows up and not bother with all that shenanigans. If I can claim diminished value, the car might be worth keeping around for the low miles alone.

I guess I'm kinda on the fence about it. Probably will have to play it by ear for now.

[randrews15]

Originally Posted by r0cketm0nkey

Ultimately it's up to the insurer to determine whether to repair or total. Since it's the other party's fault, I'm not sure what their determination is as of yet. I'm also unsure if the ambulance's insurer works with the same metrics as consumer insurance (if there's a difference at all).

On the note of diminished value, that's also something I've thought about, but that would mean I have to keep the vehicle for another appraisal, so I can have some hard numbers. On the flip side...I could potentially sell it ASAP before the record shows up and not bother with all that shenanigans. If I can claim diminished value, the car might be worth keeping around for the low miles alone.

I guess I'm kinda on the fence about it. Probably will have to play it by ear for now.

The record will likely hit in about two weeks post accident. Carfax pulls data right out of the DMV which is entered by the accident report. Any skilled appraiser will see the repairs and know it was in a major accident anyways. Make sure you take it to a shop that knows what their doing and likely plan on keeping the car. Looking at the numbers you posted, it appears that that damage hasn't reached total value of the car yet to total it. You could dump it at a dealer after it's fixed, but the dirty carfax is going to ding the value of the car pretty heavy. I'd see about the insurance paying for depreciated value due to the dirty carfax.