S65 engine sabotaged!!!!

[SAMM3Y]

Originally Posted by Vandalle

Well said. Safe to say that after the shit ton of money I spent fixing my e60 M5's SMG pump and fuel pump (twice I might add), and now this tragedy, this may be my last BMW. Period. I thought I'd be safe upgrading to this E92 which was a 2013 end of generation production model - thinking all issues would be addressed. Joke's on me I guess. Let's see how this plays out with them. I'm pretty sure they care about their reputation. But I could be proven wrong

The problem is the more they good will, the more they open themselves up to liability and litigation to the masses... I work for a big German company myself and have seen it a couple of times where we don't own stuff like this for that exact reason. All it would take one day is a pissed off employee to gather some information, contact some customers who have suffered failures and contact a law firm for a class action against the company I work for..

[pwrdbym]

Originally Posted by Vandalle

They get paid either way for labour if BMW were to replace the engine under warranty or not. I don't see a clear motive for them to save BMW some money.

While a dealer does get paid by the parent company for warranty work it isn’t at the rate they charge a customer. If you’ve ever looked at a health insurance payment breakdown, a hospital will charge $1700 to a patient for an x-ray but the insurance company will only pay out $450. Kind of the same thing here. A dealership can take advantage of cash paying customers but BMW will pay out only a certain amount for work. A dealership will almost always overbill labor to a cash paying customer but BMW has a set rate for each job. There’s only so many billable hours in a day, so the dealer wants to use these on higher paying jobs. If you’ve ever had a dealer put up a fight on a warranty claim you can bet this is the reason, especially if there’s a high number of labor hours. I have no opinion on this scenario but wanted to clarify how this works.

[Drv4fun]

Originally Posted by deansbimmer

As my last bullet point noted, there are thousands of other S65's that have failed in the same way. In my professional opinion the key and wrapper played no part in its demise. Your engine simply suffered typical S65 bearing failure like many others before you.

With all due respect, I would like to better understand-you state thousands of S65 have failed. With about 66k cars produced (from bmwmregistry.com) - what you are saying is more than 1 out of every 66 engines will suffer RB failure? Did I misunderstand the production numbers?

[osukf09]

Originally Posted by Drv4fun

With all due respect, I would like to better understand-you state thousands of S65 have failed. With about 66k cars produced (from bmwmregistry.com) - what you are saying is more than 1 out of every 66 engines will suffer RB failure? Did I misunderstand the production numbers?

Agreed. Obviously respect his opinion immensely but that number is proportionally high, if true, given total production numbers.

[deansbimmer]

Originally Posted by osukf09

Agreed. Obviously respect his opinion immensely but that number is proportionally high, if true, given total production numbers.

My assertion is based off of my observations and a probability standpoint. In my shop alone I have come across at least 30 failed engines over the years. This is just my little playground in north Texas operating as a very small venture compared to others worldwide. It doesn't count observations online or elsewhere, just my own personal interactions with owners of engines or cars I've dismantled.

Now, how many more hundreds (thousands?) of shops like mine are there in THE ENTIRE WORLD, who would see similar failures regularly? When considering that, it's easy to hypothesize that BMW has suffered thousands of these failures. 1 in 66 from total production? I don't know, nor did I state 6,600 have failed. All I know is I see a TON of these, far more than 1 in 66 I see through my shop have failed engines and I get calls and messages from around the nation several times a week from owners of failed engines requesting advice. Granted, I'm well aware that as a shop my ratios will be biased towards high failure rates, but again-consider how many other shops like mine there are in the world.

The minute statistical percentage that so many use to downplay the issue is completely arbitrary and obviously nobody, including BMW will ever know how many have actually failed.

Even big name rebuilders seem to have a hard time sometimes with S65 bearing longevity. I've got a relatively low mile DINAN built stroker sitting here with a hole in the block due to a spun rod.

Just my .02.

[Banana Hammock]

Rod bearing deniers are like the Anti-Vaxxers of the E9X M world.

[ItsGary]

Waiting for OP to update us by letting us know BMW AG (Germany) told him to kick rocks about good willing a brand new engine

[Whyte Dynamyte]

Starting to think this is gonna end like The Sopranos

[Vandalle]

Hey folks. I sent an email to BMW GmbH two days ago. Will report back once I get a response. If it's negative I'm sure as Hell posting all over social media and this will be my last BMW ever. I still have hope they'll care about their customers and good will this tragic loss.

[Solo_M_Tech]

Originally Posted by Vandalle

Hey folks. I sent an email to BMW GmbH two days ago. Will report back once I get a response. If it's negative I'm sure as Hell posting all over social media and this will be my last BMW ever. I still have hope they'll care about their customers and good will this tragic loss.

Given BMW doesn't recognize the S65 engine failures as an engineering mistake( many here believe otherwise) they will assuredly tell you no. Especially given the foreign materials in the oil pan. That is a " get out of jail free" card for BMW. Blasting them on social media and the forums will most likely kill of any help they may be willing to provide outside of a full engine replacement. If they decide to help you in any way. It's lose lose for you if you take that path.

Cooler heads will prevail. I'd start a vandalism claim with your insurance company just as a fall back in case you have no other option.

[Helmsman]

Agree with Solo. Bettet keep your head cool and play it smart, social media on this matter have had very little effect on BMW over the last good number of years.

[kimiraikkonen]

Originally Posted by Solo_M_Tech

Given BMW doesn't recognize the S65 engine failures as an engineering mistake( many here believe otherwise) they will assuredly tell you no. Especially given the foreign materials in the oil pan. That is a " get out of jail free" card for BMW. Blasting them on social media and the forums will most likely kill of any help they may be willing to provide outside of a full engine replacement. If they decide to help you in any way. It's lose lose for you if you take that path.

Cooler heads will prevail. I'd start a vandalism claim with your insurance company just as a fall back in case you have no other option.

Maybe difficult for the OP as this would require self-incrimination.

[Vandalle]

Originally Posted by Solo_M_Tech

Given BMW doesn't recognize the S65 engine failures as an engineering mistake( many here believe otherwise) they will assuredly tell you no. Especially given the foreign materials in the oil pan. That is a " get out of jail free" card for BMW. Blasting them on social media and the forums will most likely kill of any help they may be willing to provide outside of a full engine replacement. If they decide to help you in any way. It's lose lose for you if you take that path.

Cooler heads will prevail. I'd start a vandalism claim with your insurance company just as a fall back in case you have no other option.

Agreed. My intention is not to blast them. I asked them for a report on what the cause of failure is - something I asked the dealership for, twice, to which I got no answer (which I find extremely bizarre). Initially, when the dealership said the engine stalled and they wanted money to open it up, I asked them to consult Gmbh and let them recommend a way forward. They refused and said "pay up". So my brother went ahead and gave them the payment. Then after opening it up, I asked them to consult Gmbh for a report on what transpired. They denied that too! Then they said "pay up" for a new engine. I told BMW customer care that for a car that's well maintained and with low mileage to experience this sort of thing, I'd require an explanation at least and not just a "go buy a new engine" response. Wouldn't you agree?

[Vandalle]

Originally Posted by Helmsman

Agree with Solo. Bettet keep your head cool and play it smart, social media on this matter have had very little effect on BMW over the last good number of years.

well, let's look at it this way, if their response is anything but positive and in the right direction, I'll vote with my feet and this will be (for me and my immediate family at least) the last BMW. My friends will hear about it and so will the thousands on this thread. And they can choose what to do for themselves. If I came to know that something similar happened to someone with a Tesla or Audi (or whatever) and this is how the company's customer care responded (telling him or her to F off and go buy a new engine) I wouldn't approach that brand with a ten foot pole.

[Vandalle]

Guys, think about it: if this is really not due to the foreign object, then why would I even trust a replacement engine? It's like a ticking time bomb that may go off at any time. And am I supposed to proactively replace rod bearings and due oil analysis every so often to keep this engine from dying? I'm really really curious to see what the experts in Gmbh say the cause of the problem was

[SAMM3Y]

LS swap it...

[tdott]

Originally Posted by Vandalle

Guys, think about it: if this is really not due to the foreign object, then why would I even trust a replacement engine? It's like a ticking time bomb that may go off at any time. And am I supposed to proactively replace rod bearings and due oil analysis every so often to keep this engine from dying? I'm really really curious to see what the experts in Gmbh say the cause of the problem was

Welcome to S65 ownership.

Your best bet for any new or used engine replacement is to get BE Bearings extra clearance (or similar) rod bearings, but there will still be a low chance of main bearing failure. or you could just have a rebuilt motor but make sure they spec the clearance of the main and rod bearings according to industry standards and not what BMW specs them at.

[Scharbag]

Originally Posted by tdott

Welcome to S65 ownership.

Your best bet for any new or used engine replacement is to get BE Bearings extra clearance (or similar) rod bearings, but there will still be a low chance of main bearing failure. or you could just have a rebuilt motor but make sure they spec the clearance of the main and rod bearings according to industry standards and not what BMW specs them at.

Yup.

In a perfect world I would send my S65 to a good builder. There, it would get a complete overhaul to ensure proper bearing clearances were confirmed during assembly. After that, reinstall the engine and enjoy.

But DAYUM, S65B40 parts are expensive. And, cause this is the way life works, the S65B40 is complicated. This makes the labor to rebuild expensive too. So, fingers crossed my lump stays happy.

[Vandalle]

Time for an update. It's been weeks since I emailed BMW. Guess what gents? No reply! That settles it. Last BMW ever; this brand can suck a D. As for the car, well my brother and I agreed to split the bill. According to the dealership, they figured they gave us a discount by making the new S65 engine and labor total USD 17k roughly. So we paid it and the car has been fixed. My brother says the car came back from the dead and needs a tattoo/sticker. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thank you all for your support and help. Two big thumbs up the you know what to BMW's so-called customer service for marking my email as 'priority' and treating it to the trashcan.

[ItsGary]

Originally Posted by Vandalle

Time for an update. It's been weeks since I emailed BMW. Guess what gents? No reply! That settles it. Last BMW ever; this brand can suck a D. As for the car, well my brother and I agreed to split the bill. According to the dealership, they figured they gave us a discount by making the new S65 engine and labor total USD 17k roughly. So we paid it and the car has been fixed. My brother says the car came back from the dead and needs a tattoo/sticker. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thank you all for your support and help. Two big thumbs up the you know what to BMW's so-called customer service for marking my email as 'priority' and treating it to the trashcan.

Told you. Don't know why you expected them to do anything about a car out of warranty. Let alone an older vehicle out of warranty. Mileage doesn't matter to them.

Glad you paid to get the car fixed. Are you going to keep it or sell it?

Kind of a dumb question to ask but I assume you're going to keep it and never buy a BMW again like you said.

[randrews15]

Originally Posted by Vandalle

Time for an update. It's been weeks since I emailed BMW. Guess what gents? No reply! That settles it. Last BMW ever; this brand can suck a D. As for the car, well my brother and I agreed to split the bill. According to the dealership, they figured they gave us a discount by making the new S65 engine and labor total USD 17k roughly. So we paid it and the car has been fixed. My brother says the car came back from the dead and needs a tattoo/sticker. Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thank you all for your support and help. Two big thumbs up the you know what to BMW's so-called customer service for marking my email as 'priority' and treating it to the trashcan.

I'll be honest, this whole thing reeks of BS. Blaming the engine or BMW for the engine failure does not sit well with me at all. Sure, car manufacturers make mistakes and aren't perfect, but owners do have to take some responsibility for their cars. Personally, I don't buy it for a minute that the failure was due to the key or the wrapper that some how got logged in the motor. You probably didn't hear a reply from them due to the nature in which you framed your response and the fact the story just isn't believable. You certainly don't have to buy another BMW ever, but I don't think it matters which brand you guys own and will experience failures. I know I'm not the only one here that thinks this, I just was the first to actually say it. Don't take it personally, I'm just voicing my disbelief and utter dissatisfaction in how this was addressed.

[Vandalle]

Originally Posted by ItsGary

Told you. Don't know why you expected them to do anything about a car out of warranty. Let alone an older vehicle out of warranty. Mileage doesn't matter to them.

Glad you paid to get the car fixed. Are you going to keep it or sell it?

Kind of a dumb question to ask but I assume you're going to keep it and never buy a BMW again like you said.

I'm in Canada and I can't ship it here due to car manufacturers lobbying governments to prevent people from moving cars into North America from Europe or the rest of the world.
Protectionism at its best. If this car was with me in Canada I would have taken care of it.
So I got screwed twice by car manufacturers. Lucky guy, I guess.

My brother will drive it in the Mid East as he's on a work stint there. We'll keep it for now. If it sells, great. If not, here's hoping the new engine comes with rod bearings that won't fail.