My E90 M3 Dedicated Track build (with pix!)

[slcook54]

Dogbone,

What tires are you running on the E92 and do you drive to the track with your track tires already on the car? Thinking about picking up a set of ARC8's to get into HPDE's and was debating on a good starting tire that I can drive do the track with. I was planning on running 275/35/18 all around.

A friend recommended RS4's, but it doesn't look like they make them with a 35 sidewall anymore. Heard the RE71R is also a great tire?

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by slcook54

Dogbone,

What tires are you running on the E92 and do you drive to the track with your track tires already on the car? Thinking about picking up a set of ARC8's to get into HPDE's and was debating on a good starting tire that I can drive do the track with. I was planning on running 275/35/18 all around.

A friend recommended RS4's, but it doesn't look like they make them with a 35 sidewall anymore. Is RE71R a good starter tire?

So-----hehe-----I'm a bad guy to ask. I don't mess around with street tires on track anymore. After all these years going to the track, I just cannot get myself to work so hard at setting up a car and then put street tires on and slide around. So, I use Pirelli DH scrubs even on my E92. It's simply my tire of choice now.

I have a set of 9.5" ARC-8 rims for the E92 and I put 265/645/18 DH scrubs on them. An M3 that still has a back seat (meaning no half cage) can fit a whole set of wheels in the back seat. Just bring a floor jack and switch the wheels at the track. I highly recommend that to anyone that tracks several times per year. Trashing street tires on track and then having to daily drive trashed street tires stinks. And I really love the peace of mind I get having a set of wheels for street and a set for track. If I have a tire issue, or I cord a set of tires, I don't have any problems getting home. I don't have to "monitor" my tire situation so that I can make it home.

The RE71R is very good. People really like them a lot and put down good laps on them. I don't think you would regret giving them a try.

[SYT_Shadow]

Originally Posted by slcook54

A friend recommended RS4's, but it doesn't look like they make them with a 35 sidewall anymore. Heard the RE71R is also a great tire?

I'm not Mr Bone, but the RE71R is an excellent track tire that is still streetable

It is faster than the RS4

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by dogbone

If I had to guess, I think the camera is rattling just slightly in the GoPro case. I bet if you put a small piece of cloth on the backside of the camera between the camera and the case door, it would stop the rattling.

This got solved on my 5/10 track day and dog you pointed me at the right direction.

On AiM SmartyCam, there are two gain controls, internal and external. I thought that by plugging external microphone, it will shut down the internal. Alas, this is not the case.

Turning down the internal microphone gain to Zero solved the clicking and wind noise (driving with open windows). Now pure clean V8 sound from the exhaust is awesome via the external mic on the bumper

Videos coming ....

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by rhyary

This got solved on my 5/10 track day and dog you pointed me at the right direction.

On AiM SmartyCam, there are two gain controls, internal and external. I thought that by plugging external microphone, it will shut down the internal. Alas, this is not the case.

Turning down the internal microphone gain to Zero solved the clicking and wind noise (driving with open windows). Now pure clean V8 sound from the exhaust is awesome via the external mic on the bumper

Videos coming ....

Great! Let’s see and hear a video!

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Great! Let’s see and hear a video!

I have another input besides the Exhaust that I want to keep as a surprise until it comes out good. On Thursday i was testing it and forgot to adjust it for the track day. Because it was rainy day, i did not bring my laptop to the track and could not adjust it back. Should be ready for 5/19 track day.

[dogbone]

There were quite a few options for track days this coming Memorial weekend. Originally, I was planning on going to Bimmerfest. I do enjoy that awesome BMW scene at Auto Club. Between the track day and all the crazy modded BMWs that attend, it's a great time. (And the food trucks serve up some pretty darn good stuff.) If you haven't checked out a Bimmerfest, I highly recommend that you head out there.

However, another track day presented itself that ultimately pulled me away from ACS----Spring Mountain with PCA Las Vegas chapter. I have never visited Spring Mountain before and I've really wanted to drive that track for many years. So this weekend, for me, it's Spring Mountain, running the 3.4 mile Mansell course. I always love the challenge of visiting new tracks. And the Nevada weather which is usually getting pretty warm by now is not going to be bad----Day1: 80ºF, Day2: 75ºF. So, I'm really looking forward to driving Spring Mountain.


I have been working on putting the pieces together to try to solve the problem of my supercharger spewing blower fluid all over the engine bay and even up through the hood vents onto my windshield right in front of my face. For 7 years, blower fluid has been yucking up my engine bay. And then the issue got more annoying when I got hood vents because the fluid sprays onto my windshield right in front of my face. I am really hoping I can fix it. If it works, I'll post up what we've done.

Anyway, I'm bummed that I'll miss all you guys at Bimmerfest. But, I'm quite excited to see what Spring Mountain is all about!

(On Saturday, I'll be checking in on the Bimmer Challenge via Race Hero. There's quite a solid group of entries. I count 62 right now! Should be interesting!)

[admranger]

Originally Posted by dogbone

There were quite a few options for track days this coming Memorial weekend. Originally, I was planning on going to Bimmerfest. I do enjoy that awesome BMW scene at Auto Club. Between the track day and all the crazy modded BMWs that attend, it's a great time. (And the food trucks serve up some pretty darn good stuff.) If you haven't checked out a Bimmerfest, I highly recommend that you head out there.

However, another track day presented itself that ultimately pulled me away from ACS----Spring Mountain with PCA Las Vegas chapter. I have never visited Spring Mountain before and I've really wanted to drive that track for many years. So this weekend, for me, it's Spring Mountain, running the 3.4 mile Mansell course. I always love the challenge of visiting new tracks. And the Nevada weather which is usually getting pretty warm by now is not going to be bad----Day1: 80ºF, Day2: 75ºF. So, I'm really looking forward to driving Spring Mountain.


I have been working on putting the pieces together to try to solve the problem of my supercharger spewing blower fluid all over the engine bay and even up through the hood vents onto my windshield right in front of my face. For 7 years, blower fluid has been yucking up my engine bay. And then the issue got more annoying when I got hood vents because the fluid sprays onto my windshield right in front of my face. I am really hoping I can fix it. If it works, I'll post up what we've done.

Anyway, I'm bummed that I'll miss all you guys at Bimmerfest. But, I'm quite excited to see what Spring Mountain is all about!

(On Saturday, I'll be checking in on the Bimmer Challenge via Race Hero. There's quite a solid group of entries. I count 62 right now! Should be interesting!)

SMMR is fun. 3.4 mile config is fun. You might break the sound barrier on the long back straight. Chicane at the end of the straight is much faster than it looks, though the tall bollards will pop the mirror glass right out of the housing if you hit one...or so I've been told. Watch your throttle input on the dip after the right hander after ego check (sorry, I've forgotten the turn numbers). It's like turn 6 at Willow Springs where the car gets light as you crest it.

Turns 1 and 2 are good setup corners to ensure a neutral balance on the car. Have fun and I wish I was there to join you and tlp

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by admranger

SMMR is fun. 3.4 mile config is fun. You might break the sound barrier on the long back straight. Chicane at the end of the straight is much faster than it looks, though the tall bollards will pop the mirror glass right out of the housing if you hit one...or so I've been told. Watch your throttle input on the dip after the right hander after ego check (sorry, I've forgotten the turn numbers). It's like turn 6 at Willow Springs where the car gets light as you crest it.

Turns 1 and 2 are good setup corners to ensure a neutral balance on the car. Have fun and I wish I was there to join you and tlp

Thanks for the heads up. Yes, I've been watching a bunch of lap videos to familiarize myself with the layout. That part of the track with the dip you talk about is a labyrinth of fairly tight turns. My daughter walked by while I was watching a video that showed the track layout on the screen. She said, "that looks like intestines." and walked away..... hehe that pretty much says it all!

Anyway, we'll be having dinner with tlp and a couple other guys on Saturday night. Looking forward to it!

[jid2]

Spring Mountain does look like a fun track. Running there with the PCA sounds like a good way to develop feelings for a 991.2 GT3RS.

[tlp]

Originally Posted by admranger

SMMR is fun. 3.4 mile config is fun. You might break the sound barrier on the long back straight. Chicane at the end of the straight is much faster than it looks, though the tall bollards will pop the mirror glass right out of the housing if you hit one...or so I've been told. Watch your throttle input on the dip after the right hander after ego check (sorry, I've forgotten the turn numbers). It's like turn 6 at Willow Springs where the car gets light as you crest it.

Turns 1 and 2 are good setup corners to ensure a neutral balance on the car. Have fun and I wish I was there to join you and tlp

Originally Posted by dogbone

Thanks for the heads up. Yes, I've been watching a bunch of lap videos to familiarize myself with the layout. That part of the track with the dip you talk about is a labyrinth of fairly tight turns. My daughter walked by while I was watching a video that showed the track layout on the screen. She said, "that looks like intestines." and walked away..... hehe that pretty much says it all!

Anyway, we'll be having dinner with tlp and a couple other guys on Saturday night. Looking forward to it!

It won't be long now Conditions look great. Saturday to figure things out 80 degrees. Sunday for PB's 67 degrees. Sunday has typically 2/3 attendance compared to Sat.

See ya tomorrow.

[kuy902]

Hi Dogbone. I am a big fan of your build, and my car's build is very similar to your build except that I have Gpower SK2 kit instead of VF kit.

I do run KW CS with shorter springs.

im currently running 295 30 18 square set up and broke studs on the LHS Front wheel which led to pretty big accident.
I was running 10mm spacer with standard studs.

I understand now that 10mm spacer is not recommended size and I should have run 12mm size spacers or up?
I see that you are running 3mm spacer only for 285 30 18.

with 5mm Spacer, I think I only had less than 5mm strut clearance with my 295 30 18. Under compression during the race wouldnt it flex and hit the strut?

I am now going to try out 12mm spacer from BW with BW race premium studs.
tires going to stay 295 30 18 square.

Any advice?
I wish to not have an experience of wheel falling of the car ever again lol

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by kuy902

Hi Dogbone. I am a big fan of your build, and my car's build is very similar to your build except that I have Gpower SK2 kit instead of VF kit.

I do run KW CS with shorter springs.

im currently running 295 30 18 square set up and broke studs on the LHS Front wheel which led to pretty big accident.
I was running 10mm spacer with standard studs.

I understand now that 10mm spacer is not recommended size and I should have run 12mm size spacers or up?
I see that you are running 3mm spacer only for 285 30 18.

with 5mm Spacer, I think I only had less than 5mm strut clearance with my 295 30 18. Under compression during the race wouldnt it flex and hit the strut?

I am now going to try out 12mm spacer from BW with BW race premium studs.
tires going to stay 295 30 18 square.

Any advice?
I wish to not have an experience of wheel falling of the car ever again lol

Hi. Wow, I’m sorry to hear that a wheel actually fell off from stud breakage.

Which brand of tire is the 295/30/18?

Anyway, if you really want to stop stud breakage completely, you may want to consider a slightly more extreme solution. It’s the solution that my friend and I just implemented: we had our E90 M3 hub holes drilled out to take a 14mm stud. I have never met anyone who broke a 14mm stud. I have talked to race shops they have never seen a broken 14mm stud. In my humble opinion, if you drive an E9x M3 very hard, you will break 12mm studs—regardless of the brand. Once my friend started running the same tires as me, he started breaking studs, and his breaks were looking the same as mine.

Rogue Engineering sells a kit that makes it possible to drill the hubs reliably. We bought that and it worked well. We had a metal machine shop do the drilling and tapping for us. Here’s a link to their kit: https://www.rogueengineering.com/Rogue-Engineering-Wheel-Stud-Jig_p_265.html

Everyone agrees that the front hubs can be drilled to 14mm safely. The rears, however——not everyone agrees that the hub flanges are wide enough to allow expanding the holes. I was not comfortable with it, so we left the rears at 12mm. I’ve only done this change recently, so I can’t give you a long term reliability report yet. But no matter what 12mm stud I ran, I would still break them......So, sadly my advice is: on the front hubs, move to 14mm.

As far as clearance, JRZ advised me years ago to have 3-4mm clearance for wheel flex. That advice had worked for me.

I can’t advise you on spacer size above 5mm. I’ve run 3mm and 5mm only. What offset is your wheel?

[kuy902]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Hi. Wow, I’m sorry to hear that a wheel actually fell off from stud breakage.

Which brand of tire is the 295/30/18?

Anyway, if you really want to stop stud breakage completely, you may want to consider a slightly more extreme solution. It’s the solution that my friend and I just implemented: we had our E90 M3 hub holes drilled out to take a 14mm stud. I have never met anyone who broke a 14mm stud. I have talked to race shops they have never seen a broken 14mm stud. In my humble opinion, if you drive an E9x M3 very hard, you will break 12mm studs—regardless of the brand. Once my friend started running the same tires as me, he started breaking studs, and his breaks were looking the same as mine.

Rogue Engineering sells a kit that makes it possible to drill the hubs reliably. We bought that and it worked well. We had a metal machine shop do the drilling and tapping for us. Here’s a link to their kit: https://www.rogueengineering.com/Rog...Jig_p_265.html

Everyone agrees that the front hubs can be drilled to 14mm safely. The rears, however——not everyone agrees that the hub flanges are wide enough to allow expanding the holes. I was not comfortable with it, so we left the rears at 12mm. I’ve only done this change recently, so I can’t give you a long term reliability report yet. But no matter what 12mm stud I ran, I would still break them......So, sadly my advice is: on the front hubs, move to 14mm.

As far as clearance, JRZ advised me years ago to have 3-4mm clearance for wheel flex. That advice had worked for me.

I can’t advise you on spacer size above 5mm. I’ve run 3mm and 5mm only. What offset is your wheel?

I run 295 30 18 square with Nankang AR-1 (37psi hot)
Wheels are 18inch 10.5 wide et25 square from Titan7.

This accident got me really scared now.. :-(
Did you ever have failure with the Bimmerworld premium race studs?

My tech told me all the stress on the bolts/studs increase if you have less surface area contact with the wheel fitting surface. He recommended 12mm spacer over 5mm... but im not sure abt tht.. my logic says 5mm would be safer than the 12mm..

Id be all over that 14mm kit.
Its just that if bimmerworld premium race studs seems to be the only solution for quite alot of people.. it might be safer to stick with it first.
But wanted to ask you if that could fail as well?

Damn.. what to do!

Thanks for your insight Dogbone.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by kuy902

I run 295 30 18 square with Nankang AR-1 (37psi hot)
This accident got me really scared now.. :-(
Did you ever have failure with the Bimmerworld premium race studs?

My tech told me all the stress on the bolts/studs increase if you have less surface area contact with the wheel fitting surface. He recommended 12mm spacer over 5mm... but im not sure abt tht.. my logic says 5mm would be safer than the 12mm..

Id be all over that 14mm kit.
Its just that if bimmerworld premium race studs seems to be the only solution for quite alot of people.. it might be safer to stick with it first.
But wanted to ask you if that could fail as well?

Damn.. what to do!

Thanks for your insight Dogbone.

Sadly yes, I did have a failure recently with the Bimmerworld Premium Race stud.....but it did take awhile. The stud that broke was almost 1 year old. It was this failure that finally got me to commit to the 14mm conversion. And what really bothers me the most is that almost all of my breakages occur in exactly the same way----the stud breaks off inside the hub. It just seems to show that there is a consistent and repeatable force being applied that the studs can't take.......that really does bother me.

Perhaps if you committed to changing the 12mm studs every 4-6 months, they would not fail......I don't know. But that's a lot of expensive studs. In the long run it would be cheaper to do 14mm studs. Those 14mm babies are beefy looking! They inspire confidence!

Anyway, I honestly believe that drilling out the front hubs to 14mm is the best solution if you're pounding on the car. You can buy OEM replacement hubs for very reasonable cost----around $150 each. Then give a professional metal machine shop the Rogue Engineering kit with the hubs and have them do the drilling work. The hubs last awhile. It's not like you replace them every day.

Good luck. Report back here and let us know what path you decide to take.

[kuy902]

Originally Posted by dogbone

Sadly yes, I did have a failure recently with the Bimmerworld Premium Race stud.....but it did take awhile. The stud that broke was almost 1 year old. It was this failure that finally got me to commit to the 14mm conversion. And what really bothers me the most is that almost all of my breakages occur in exactly the same way----the stud breaks off inside the hub. It just seems to show that there is a consistent and repeatable force being applied that the studs can't take.......that really does bother me.

Perhaps if you committed to changing the 12mm studs every 4-6 months, they would not fail......I don't know. But that's a lot of expensive studs. In the long run it would be cheaper to do 14mm studs. Those 14mm babies are beefy looking! They inspire confidence!

Anyway, I honestly believe that drilling out the front hubs to 14mm is the best solution if you're pounding on the car. You can buy OEM replacement hubs for very reasonable cost----around $150 each. Then give a professional metal machine shop the Rogue Engineering kit with the hubs and have them do the drilling work. The hubs last awhile. It's not like you replace them every day.

Good luck. Report back here and let us know what path you decide to take.

Thanks Dogbone.
i will stick with BW race studs for now as I have already bought a set, but will definitely move onto 14mm conversion like you! it is really scary when a wheel falls off.. haha im lucky i didnt total the car... I was so close from hitting the wall.

Now my only question is in terms of reducing pressure for the studs, would 5mm spacer or 12mm spacer be better?
5mm spacer allows limited amount of wheel to rest on the OEM hub, while 12mm spacer allow full length of wheel fitting surface to rest on the hubcentric spacer. .... Damn it! haha I just dont want to learn it the hard way again.

It would be good if you could report back how you go on 14mm kit longterm!

Thanks.

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by kuy902

Thanks Dogbone.
i will stick with BW race studs for now as I have already bought a set, but will definitely move onto 14mm conversion like you! it is really scary when a wheel falls off.. haha im lucky i didnt total the car... I was so close from hitting the wall.

Now my only question is in terms of reducing pressure for the studs, would 5mm spacer or 12mm spacer be better?
5mm spacer allows limited amount of wheel to rest on the OEM hub, while 12mm spacer allow full length of wheel fitting surface to rest on the hubcentric spacer. .... Damn it! haha I just dont want to learn it the hard way again.

It would be good if you could report back how you go on 14mm kit longterm!

Thanks.

In my opinion, the Bimmerworld stud was the best 12mm option—-harder steel than most other studs (12.9 steel vs 10.9) and the collar they put on it allows the stress to be distributed evenly at the face of the hub. And I didn’t break many of them.

But check this out: my friend and I have similar cars—-both of are E90, supercharger, JRZ RS Pro, AP Racing, 10.5” square wheels, 305 Pirelli DH square, Cobalt Friction brake pads, same full aero. The main difference is that I’m gutted and fully caged, and he has a half cage and minimal lightening. So the main difference is weight. I would guess my car weighs 200-300 lbs less than his. We were at the same event at a Chuckwalla event in March. We both broke a stud on the same front-driver corner, and the both breaks looked exactly the same—broken inside the hub. I replaced my hub with a spare I had. His weekend was over because he couldn’t drill it out and there wasn’t much driving left to do. But c’mon—-the same break? Clearly, some kind of consistent force is being applied to that hub that the studs can’t take. And then I consider an endurance E92 like Jordan Yost’s car that broke I think something like 12 studs in a single 25 hour race and I realize it’s not just me.

Anyway, in the short term, use the BW premium race stud and replace them frequently. But the long term solution should be 14mm in the front. I drove mine yesterday and will again today. Been going fine so far.

[slicer]

You can install F80 hubs on your E9x to avoid all of the drilling for 14mm studs. Added bonus they are lighter. Future Classic just released a kit.

I run MSI 12mm studs and have never had an issue. They make the studs for NASCAR.

[roastbeef]

Originally Posted by slicer

You can install F80 hubs on your E9x to avoid all of the drilling for 14mm studs. Added bonus they are lighter. Future Classic just released a kit.

I run MSI 12mm studs and have never had an issue. They make the studs for NASCAR.

looks awesome. also appears to be front and rear. might have to do this when its time for new studs...

https://futureclassic.us/collections...b-retrofit-kit
OE M12x1.5 Front Hub Assembly: 3293g
FC M14x1.25 Front Hub Assembly: 2957g (-0.74lbs per corner)
OE M12x1.5 Rear Hub Spindle: 1686g
FC M14x1.25 Rear Hub Spindle: 1441g (-0.54lbs per corner)

pair it with this titanium stud kit designed for drag cars for the ultimate setup!
https://www.ti64.com/product-p/464.htm

[dogbone]

Originally Posted by slicer

You can install F80 hubs on your E9x to avoid all of the drilling for 14mm studs. Added bonus they are lighter. Future Classic just released a kit.

I run MSI 12mm studs and have never had an issue. They make the studs for NASCAR.

The Future Classic offering is very interesting. Thanks for the heads up on that. I'm already down the road of the drilled out hub, but maybe for kuy902 it's an option right now.

[dogbone]

Went to Pahrump, Nevada to visit Spring Mountain this weekend with PCA Las Vegas. Had a really great time. The track was challenging and we had fun hanging out with a few people, so the weekend flowed really well.

As expected, Spring Mountain's Mansell-C 3.4 mile was quite a handful to learn. My friend and I had never been there and boy were we lost in the first session. The tight turns that twist and turn one after the other, the dips, the awkward braking zones, the two back-to-back carousels that hit you right at the start of the lap, the funky bus stop. This track is 3.4 miles of solid challenges. I had watched a bunch of videos before going and I was still totally lost.

Saturday--Day 1, the story for me was traffic. By the 3rd session, I was familiar with the track and ready to run, but I just----could----not----find----an---open----track.......My fast lap of day 1 was a 2:32 and it involved hanging out behind an M-Coupe for half the lap. The video was silly. You look at it and go, THIS was your fast lap?! While it was fun to be on a new track, it was a bit frustrating.

Sunday--Day 2, I had the track in my head and was ready to go. In the 2nd session, I found some consistent open track late in the session and ran a 2:26.

I had a couple of offs trying to find the limit of some braking zones. The first was right before my fast lap. It wasn't bad. In the last session, I did some extra fancy landscaping work for the facility. My splitter does a pretty good job of cutting grass and scooping up large rocks......Something tells me the track didn't appreciate such expert landscaping.....

The weather on Day 1 was fine. Sunny around 80ºF. But Day 2 was amazing. The high temps were around 66ºF. It got to that temp at 9AM and basically stayed there the rest of the day. There was some wind on day 2, but I never felt that it affected my driving. Being the end of May around Las Vegas, that was incredible weather.

Here's my fast lap video:

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by roastbeef

looks awesome. also appears to be front and rear. might have to do this when its time for new studs...

https://futureclassic.us/collections...b-retrofit-kit
OE M12x1.5 Front Hub Assembly: 3293g
FC M14x1.25 Front Hub Assembly: 2957g (-0.74lbs per corner)
OE M12x1.5 Rear Hub Spindle: 1686g
FC M14x1.25 Rear Hub Spindle: 1441g (-0.54lbs per corner)

pair it with this titanium stud kit designed for drag cars for the ultimate setup!
https://www.ti64.com/product-p/464.htm

This is interesting solution.
In the video they are showing drilling.
So what exactly are they fabricating?
Will this have any impact on none OEM brakes?
Are the M14 fit existing wheels?