M3/M4 vs. Tesla Model 3 Performance

[Kief]

Originally Posted by doberzus

...

And I was all excited to finally see the infamous doberzus!! You camera shy??

For all you Tesla M3P owners (or soon-to-be), would you get one w/out Full Driving Capability at delivery? I know you can get it after the sale, but for significantly more. There are a few ready now M3P near me without Full Driving Capability.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by Kief

And I was all excited to finally see the infamous doberzus!! You camera shy??

For all you Tesla M3P owners (or soon-to-be), would you get one w/out Full Driving Capability at delivery? I know you can get it after the sale, but for significantly more. There are a few ready now M3P near me without Full Driving Capability.

I didn't buy FSD when I bought the car, but did get TACC (traffic aware cruise control with full stop and go capability and self-driving in one lane). I have enjoyed that feature in heavy traffic and on road trips. It still needs some polishing, but gets better with every over-the-air software update, another of which downloaded last night.

IMO, we're still a ways away from Full Self Driving being truly ready, so I'm taking a wait and see attitude. I personally wouldn't let the lack of that feature stop me from buying a car that's ready and waiting. YMMV.

[Kief]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

I didn't buy FSD when I bought the car, but did get TACC (traffic aware cruise control with full stop and go capability and self-driving in one lane). I have enjoyed that feature in heavy traffic and on road trips. It still needs some polishing, but gets better with every over-the-air software update, another of which downloaded last night.

IMO, we're still a ways away from Full Self Driving being truly ready, so I'm taking a wait and see attitude. I personally wouldn't let the lack of that feature stop me from buying a car that's ready and waiting. YMMV.

I stand corrected, adding Full Self Driving isn't any more expensive if the car isn't equipped at delivery and you add it. And, apparently there is an incentive this month for free ext or int color ($1k) for available units. But I am still so TORNNNNNNNNNNNNNN on whether to sell my wfie's X5M for a M3P!!! They are so night and day!

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by Kief

...But I am still so TORNNNNNNNNNNNNNN on whether to sell my wfie's X5M for a M3P!!! They are so night and day!

What does SHE think of the idea?

[doberzus]

Originally Posted by Kief

And I was all excited to finally see the infamous doberzus!! You camera shy??

For all you Tesla M3P owners (or soon-to-be), would you get one w/out Full Driving Capability at delivery? I know you can get it after the sale, but for significantly more. There are a few ready now M3P near me without Full Driving Capability.

He didn't ask me to make an appearance but if you squint you can see my silhouette through the drivers tinted glass

I did not order my car with FSD. $6K for an option I would not use and is a ways away from being fully implemented. Plus, it comes standard with Autopilot so I was content with that.

Just for the 8 week wait on a 2 week estimate, they are giving me 2 free years of unlimited supercharging. Really excited!

Do it already, trade in the X5M. Especially if your wife enjoyed the M3P, then you should swing it.

[s4play]

I didn't read all the comments here but WOW the number of replies really shows interest in Tesla as a brand for sure!

We live a few minutes from TESLA factory in Fremont and get to see these cars on a daily basis getting shipped out by the boat load. A lot of neighbors have one or more Tesla's in their driveway and most love their cars.

My wife was recently car shopping as she commutes to the city often and her CT200h was getting a bit up there on mileage....we naturally test drove the Model 3 as a candidate although we really wanted the Model Y but it was still a year out.

The dealership experience was nice, kids loved the video games on the main screen and the car was pretty good and didn't disappoint. However we were not that impressed with the overall car's quality or feel.

Long story short we ended up buying another hybrid instead of an EV like we initially thought wanted. My wife loves the 50+ mpg she gets on our Kia Niro and we don't regret it.

Maybe down the road when we are ready for another car, we will give Tesla another try but for now, no Tesla will be in our driveway.


P.S. I love performance hybrids and the instant acceleration of the EV setup so I understand this is the future but I just cannot sell replacing my 6-speed M3 for what most of my buddies refer to as a "toaster" appliance. My gen2 NSX has the hybrid battery setup but "at least" it has some exhaust note for my ears to enjoy

[Kief]

Originally Posted by s4play

The dealership experience was nice, kids loved the video games on the main screen and the car was pretty good and didn't disappoint. However we were not that impressed with the overall car's quality or feel.

I too must admit I wasn't pleased to see the build quality with the M3P we had for an extended test drive. There's just no comparison to our current bimmers IMHO

[doberzus]

Originally Posted by Kief

I too must admit I wasn't pleased to see the build quality with the M3P we had for an extended test drive. There's just no comparison to our current bimmers IMHO

Did your demo car have paint issues or just panel gaps and the like.

Yeah, build quality isn't out of this world but I can overlook it. I just cannot get excited about any cars under $100K anymore. This one was the only car that got me excited.

To accompany my X3MC it was between a TrackHawk, GLC63S, TTRS (yes again) and Model 3P. I need that AWD fun. Done with RWD unless I got GT3.

[Humdizzle]

They are nice for what they are. But I can't see giving up my F80 for one. The interior is pretty bad and they trap like 115 in the quarter. bone stock F80 traps 118. If you wanna talk 1/4 mile then why not grab an RS3? 4 doors, gears to shift, good sound... and with an exhaust and tune its wiping the floor with any M3P. They run a full second faster in the quarter and trap 15mph faster. its not even close.

I could see the case for a regular model 3 as a commuter car though.
- hardly need maintenance without an ICE or many moving parts
- the regen will make it so you hardly have to use your brakes
- its quiet
- no need to stop for gas when running late. just make sure to plug it up every night and your good for the day.

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by doberzus

. Done with RWD unless I got GT3.

A friend just sold his 991.1 Gt3rs and replaced it with a c8 vette.

He was tried of worrying about miles and the condition of the car for resale value and wanted a car he could beat the crap out of with no worries.

My $0.02, get a used turbo. Smoking value regardless of generation.

And congrats on the model 3. Nothing like having your “fun” car taken to Gapplebees by an EV commuter to make you re think, right?

[doberzus]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

A friend just sold his 991.1 Gt3rs and replaced it with a c8 vette.

He was tried of worrying about miles and the condition of the car for resale value and wanted a car he could beat the crap out of with no worries.

My $0.02, get a used turbo. Smoking value regardless of generation.

And congrats on the model 3. Nothing like having your “fun” car taken to Gapplebees by an EV commuter to make you re think, right?

I would def consider a 991.1 Turbo S. I would agree on hating the "babying" part. It gets old. Sometimes, you just want to rip and drive the long way and enjoy it. If you have to always think of resale, condition, miles that would make me frustrated.

[doberzus]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

They are nice for what they are. But I can't see giving up my F80 for one. The interior is pretty bad and they trap like 115 in the quarter. bone stock F80 traps 118. If you wanna talk 1/4 mile then why not grab an RS3? 4 doors, gears to shift, good sound... and with an exhaust and tune its wiping the floor with any M3P. They run a full second faster in the quarter and trap 15mph faster. its not even close.

I could see the case for a regular model 3 as a commuter car though.
- hardly need maintenance without an ICE or many moving parts
- the regen will make it so you hardly have to use your brakes
- its quiet
- no need to stop for gas when running late. just make sure to plug it up every night and your good for the day.

I think you may have missed my post above. I had a 2018 TTRS (faster than an RS3). My TTRS was a monster even in Bone stock form. I was running 3.5 second 0-60s on 91 oct and 6000-7000DA via Dragy. Factory freak?!

My 2018 TTRS was neck and neck from various rolls with a friends 2018 F80 DCT/ZCP with full Remus exhaust (minus DPs), 80lb lighter driver, M4 GTS DCT tune.

I had a 2017 stock GT-R (570HP) pull me by *half a FENDER from 60-115 and half a car from 40-120. I pulled a BUS length on my very own GT350 from a short 40-100 pull. Thing was no joke. People have been getting 11.6-11.8s @117-119MPH traps at sea level.

My point? watch the video I posted above of a model 3 gapping me from a dig AND roll. I was in the right gear for every pull (he did NOT jump), but the split second turbo lag cannot overcome the instantaneous hit of the M3P. He was also 100lbs heavier than me and had heavy aftermarket wheels and really wide staggered tires. Which he admittedly said it slowed him down a few tenths 0-60, 1/4 mile, etc. via Dragy testing.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by doberzus

I think you may have missed my post above. I had a 2018 TTRS (faster than an RS3). My TTRS was a monster even in Bone stock form. I was running 3.5 second 0-60s on 91 oct and 6000-7000DA via Dragy. Factory freak?!

My 2018 TTRS was neck and neck from various rolls with a friends 2018 F80 DCT/ZCP with full Remus exhaust (minus DPs), 80lb lighter driver, M4 GTS DCT tune.

I had a 2017 stock GT-R (570HP) pull me by *half a FENDER from 60-115 and half a car from 40-120. I pulled a BUS length on my very own GT350 from a short 40-100 pull. Thing was no joke. People have been getting 11.6-11.8s @117-119MPH traps at sea level.

My point? watch the video I posted above of a model 3 gapping me from a dig AND roll. I was in the right gear for every pull (he did NOT jump), but the split second turbo lag cannot overcome the instantaneous hit of the M3P. He was also 100lbs heavier than me and had heavy aftermarket wheels and really wide staggered tires. Which he admittedly said it slowed him down a few tenths 0-60, 1/4 mile, etc. via Dragy testing.

I saw the video of the model 3 gapping you. But you do realize if you mod the TTRS with a tune and downpipes.. you will blow the tesla away every time right? 11.6 vs 10.5 is a world of difference in a drag race. Not to mention the 15 mph difference in trap speed. And there are no mods for the tesla...what you see is what you get, no room for improvement.

Here's a video of a stock F80 (in the wrong gear as well) and he gaps a model 3p on a roll. A GTR would be even worse. It doesn't look neck and neck to me.

you are right though in that the instant torque of the electric motors makes the tesla feel very quick.

And here is an RS3 with a tune, intercooler, e85, downpipes. even without E85 it'll roll on a model 3p any day. roll or dig. and its around the same price.

[doberzus]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

I saw the video of the model 3 gapping you. But you do realize if you mod the TTRS with a tune and downpipes.. you will blow the tesla away every time right? 11.6 vs 10.5 is a world of difference in a drag race. Not to mention the 15 mph difference in trap speed. And there are no mods for the tesla...what you see is what you get, no room for improvement.

Here's a video of a stock F80 (in the wrong gear as well) and he gaps a model 3p on a roll. A GTR would be even worse. It doesn't look neck and neck to me.

you are right though in that the instant torque of the electric motors makes the tesla feel very quick.

That M3 only pulled the Model 3 *after 120+MPH. Just FYI.

I don't know about random stories or videos with no context to what exactly occurred. In my experience and speaking with all the owners of the cars I ran against. The results were the Tesla pulling up to 115+ and I was no where near catching up.

The 20 and 40 rolls are the Teslas sweet spots. The 60 rolls are it's big weakness. It's very hard to line up a 60 roll where I live anyway. So I personally don't care about those. Maybe in your area of Mexico you can do 60-130 rolls

Sure, I can mod to make crazy power. Then I lose my warranty and peace of mind. It's $30K to replace the 5 cyl engine. Not to mention the Model 3P does those 3.2 sec 0-60's on demand. NO launch control required, just stab the throttle. I had to engage my LC and that puts massive strain on the drivetrain, heatsoak, inconvenience, etc.

The Tesla can do this all day long (as long as you have charge). After those runs, he was still at 90+% charge and battery still not overheated. My Audi was already badly heatsoaked after 3 LC dig runs and 3 roll on pulls up to 115+.

Maybe if you live at the drag strip, these crazy modded cars running E85, drag tires, etc can beat it. Our local strip got shut down and there is no drag strip in the entire state. In the real world the Model 3 only gets pulled on after 110-120MPH in my experience.

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by doberzus

That M3 only pulled the Model 3 *after 120+MPH. Just FYI...

Exactly. In the real world (not Mexico) and in real, street conditions there are few new cars that can hang with the Model 3 from a dig up to about 120 mph. The other thing to remember is that even though the standard has always been "time to speed" (0-60mph, 0-100 mph, etc.) in the real world it's time to distance that determines the winner of a race. Electric cars get from stopped to a given distance quicker than people who haven't driven one think. Ask the guy who called me out at the drag strip in his modded F10 M5. He went through the traps almost 10 mph faster than I did, but did so more than half a second LATE!

Originally Posted by doberzus

..Sure, I can mod to make crazy power. Then I lose my warranty and peace of mind. It's $30K to replace the 5 cyl engine. Not to mention the Model 3P does those 3.2 sec 0-60's on demand. NO launch control required, just stab the throttle.

Exactly x 2. I don't understand why people insist on comparing modified cars with unmodified ones. It's pointless.

I could just as easily say "Oh yeah?!?! Well, a $5K Camaro with $3K in mods will demolish any new car short of a Chiron or Regera!1!1!1ELEVENTY!!"

Utterly pointless, and makes the person making the comparison look a bit desperate...

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by ZCD1

Exactly x 2. I don't understand why people insist on comparing modified cars with unmodified ones. It's pointless.

I could just as easily say "Oh yeah?!?! Well, a $5K Camaro with $3K in mods will demolish any new car short of a Chiron or Regera!1!1!1ELEVENTY!!"

Utterly pointless, and makes the person making the comparison look a bit desperate...

Running a street car with non standard fuel is a huge pain.

I tried it with a more aggressive tune that needed 100 octane when I had n54 and it was not that fun.

The best way for an enthusiast to own model 3 is to add it on to fleet, or replace a straight up commuter.

He’s thinking about it I’m terms of replacing a “fun” 6mt f80 and that makes it a hard sell. But replace civic with base model 3 would be a lot easier to swallow id imagine.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by nicknaz

Running a street car with non standard fuel is a huge pain.

I tried it with a more aggressive tune that needed 100 octane when I had n54 and it was not that fun.

The best way for an enthusiast to own model 3 is to add it on to fleet, or replace a straight up commuter.

He’s thinking about it I’m terms of replacing a “fun” 6mt f80 and that makes it a hard sell. But replace civic with base model 3 would be a lot easier to swallow id imagine.

i agree. i couldn't replace an f80 / rs3 with a model 3p. the fun factor isn't there. and again. the rs3 with just a tune and no hardware is blowing that car away if you want to beat people. it has a faster ET AND Trap speed.

the main sell for me would be to replace a commuter car. the regular model 3 is perfect for that. in the 'real world' nobody needs model 3p like performance. there has never been a time commuting in my civic that i thought it needed more power.

[doberzus]

Picked up my new Model 3 Performance. I am in love with thing. I’ve daily driven a Hellcat, GT350, TTRS, Modded F80, etc and this thing makes those feel like tractors. I don’t know what people coming from Priuses and Civics must think

In “chill” mode the cars got more pull than 90% of cars on the road.

The steering is so satisfying and the suspension is super smooth and compliant. Not to mention no lean or body roll with the low center of gravity. Even on the 20’s. I think the X3M Comp will be a nice stable mate to get my ICE fix

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by doberzus

Picked up my new Model 3 Performance. I am in love with thing. I’ve daily driven a Hellcat, GT350, TTRS, Modded F80, etc and this thing makes those feel like tractors. I don’t know what people coming from Priuses and Civics must think

In “chill” mode the cars got more pull than 90% of cars on the road.

The steering is so satisfying and the suspension is super smooth and compliant. Not to mention no lean or body roll with the low center of gravity. Even on the 20’s. I think the X3M Comp will be a nice stable mate to get my ICE fix

Congrats, and condolences on the X3M.
My F80 hardly gets out of the garage once TM3P became its neighbor.
Unless, that is, my wife snags the Model 3 first, in which case, I am stuck with the ///M3.

First world problems, for sure.

a

[ZCD1]

Originally Posted by doberzus

Picked up my new Model 3 Performance. I am in love with thing. I’ve daily driven a Hellcat, GT350, TTRS, Modded F80, etc and this thing makes those feel like tractors...

Congrats!

9 months in, I still look for excuses to drive mine!

[Aaaaaaaaa]

Originally Posted by doberzus

Picked up my new Model 3 Performance. I am in love with thing. I’ve daily driven a Hellcat, GT350, TTRS, Modded F80, etc and this thing makes those feel like tractors. I don’t know what people coming from Priuses and Civics must think

In “chill” mode the cars got more pull than 90% of cars on the road.

The steering is so satisfying and the suspension is super smooth and compliant. Not to mention no lean or body roll with the low center of gravity. Even on the 20’s. I think the X3M Comp will be a nice stable mate to get my ICE fix

Attachment 2146715

Attachment 2146719

That's not a bad stable. Maybe even carbon neutral lol

[nicknaz]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

i agree. i couldn't replace an f80 / rs3 with a model 3p. the fun factor isn't there. and again. the rs3 with just a tune and no hardware is blowing that car away if you want to beat people. it has a faster ET AND Trap speed.

the main sell for me would be to replace a commuter car. the regular model 3 is perfect for that. in the 'real world' nobody needs model 3p like performance. there has never been a time commuting in my civic that i thought it needed more power.

I just rode in a Chevy bolt and it’s a wonderful alternative to base model 3 (“standard plus” range) as well.

There’s really so many ways to talk yourself into model 3 making no sense at all.

Personally, my commuter before model 3p was a Chevy Spark EV and THAT would be my recommendation for replacing your civic. I got mine for $12k with 1.6k miles and I figured if I hated it I could sell it for what I paid. Ended up loving the 327ftlb of torque from 0 rpm and it was a nice gateway into EVs by helping my break down my preconceived notions and biases against EVs